Utopia 205 2x155hp Rotax engine is hard to start

[ID62]

Hello Seadoo buddies,
After a couple adjustments I was the third time on the water with my new (used year 2006 w. Rotax 155hp) Utopia 205. I guess she was sitting a couple months in the marina and it might be that the gas was also old. So far I didn’t drain the gas I only filled it up with new gas. Once the engines are cold both engines fire up right away. But if you reached the operation temperature the starboard engine is hard to start and I have to crank it 2 to 3 times until it starts. Surprisingly sometimes it fires up right away even it has the operation temperature. Since the injected gas quantity is controlled by the ECU I guess one of the 4 sensors which are used for this gas control have a failure. Beside the hard start up sometimes the engine runs great without any problems. So I thought it’s the manifold air temperature sensor which gives the wrong temperature. But when I measure the resistance it is within the limit. It could be also the manifold air pressure sensor but on the other hand….. engine runs great. The shop manual says it can be also the idle bypass valve, but once the engine is running it idles also great.
Your input is much appreciated to figure out the reason.
Then for those who are missing the table, I found one in a German boat shop which is fitting 100% without rework. Price is roughly 110 Euro for the table and the mount below the table. The original post fits perfect.
Thanks and greetings from Germany
Ingo

 

[Eclipse1701d]

Ingo. You seem to have some mechanical background. I think your post is quite logical. I have noticed the same thing with my Utopia. I purchased it a few months ago, and I was going to change the battery, since I have no way of knowing how old it really is. On my previous jet-ski, a Sea Doo 2007 GTI-130, with basically the same engine as we have in our boat, I had a similar problem, and it turned out to be the starter relay. Just a thought...

 

[ID62]

Hello Eclipse, thx for feedback. I’m not sure if it’s the solenoid since with a cold engine it starts well. I have the feeling that the mixture is too rich for the hot engine and this could be due to wrong values from one sensor. From the logical view it must have to do something with the air temperature or the air pressure. But on the other hand it runs great once it has been cranked up. But I will check the solenoid and I may change them cross-over to see if the problem moves to the other engine.
I hope I can figure out the issue then I will post the finding.
Thanks again
Ingo

 

[Eclipse1701d]

Ingo. Just so you know. I have the same problem with my 205. The area I drive in has had a lot of sea grass lately. I have to stop multiple times to clear it out and the engines are hard to crank after that. I am going to install a new battery tomorrow, and then use the boat this weekend. I will let you know if the problem persists after that. I am also getting a port CEL from time to time. I am leaning towards purchasing the CANDOO software so I can read codes from the computer. It seems that it will be a good investment, since there are so many things that can cause problems, with no real way to figure it out without access to the computer. It is just tough right now. Just purchased the boat a couple of months ago, and between taxes, maintenance on both engines and the gas to run it, $399 hurts a little. But, as they say, in for a penny in for a pound!

 

[Eclipse1701d]

Ingo. Turned out to be a bad rectifier. This was draining my battery. Once corrected, my startup problem has subsided. You can check this by connecting a meter to your battery, starting each engine and seeing if your voltage goes up to around 131. This will verify your rectifier is working and your battery is getting a charge. In my case, the port engine was taking power FROM the battery as I drove.

 

[ID62]

Just back from the weekend I figured out some more details. When I start the engine cold it fires up right away. If I drive the boat until the engine is reaching normal operation temperature and I switch it of for 15 or more minutes, I have exactly crank the engine 3 times and at the 4th time it fires up as normal. Also when I switch of the engine for less than 1 minute and I start it, it fires up without issues. Also it seems that it’s missing approx. 400 – 500 rpm’s in the top speed. So I’m thinking more or less it has something to do with the fuel pressure. Perhaps I have a leak in the nozzles or in the pressure regulator of the pump or I don’t have the 2 seconds pump running when I hook up the DESS key. I have to check this point or I have to hook up both engines to the pumps over cross. Once the engines are running I have 13.5 V from the rectifier.

 

[brutal]

Better than OEM replacement table here: http://www.seadooforum.com/showthre...to-all-the-lost-broken-swollen-cockpit-tables

 

[devonte007]

Is your bilge fan working? Do you run the fan for several minutes before you attempt to start the engines? Sometimes on these boats with deep bilges, the air around the hot engines can get very hot and have very little oxygen. If you attempt to start them without first turning on the fan to bring in fresh cool air, the engines can be hard to start. I realize you are only having a problem with one engine, but placement of air vents and the fan can cause this type of symptom. May sound a bit silly and simple, but it may be a solution.

If you have not done so already, try running the blower fan for several minutes before you attempt to start the warm engine and report back if anything improves or if no change in your problem.

 

[go_panthers]

That is a point I had never thought of. I'll have to test that theory out. Mine start up fine when hot, but usually take a few more turns of the starter. I always wondered why and figured it was a compression thing.

 

[Eclipse1701d]

Good point. I always run my fans when I first get in the boat, then start. However, I never run the fans if I stop to get out sea grass and then start it again. I should probably do that anyway. I will try that this weekend, weather permitting...

 

[ID62]

Coming back to the issue, here what I did already. I measured the resistance from the CTS and MATS and both seem to be reasonable. (I compared the value with the information from the shop manual and the second engine)
I hooked up the fuel pumps over cross w/o a change. Then I changed the MAPS over cross between both engines and the engine fired up right away for a couple times but later it was the same issue. It’s not always that I have to push the starter 3 to 4 times until the engine is running but it’s definitely more than half the time and therefore too annoying for me. So for the next ride I will change the solenoid over cross just to be sure I don’t have an issue on this.
I also saw that my battery has 12.2 volts only when in stby w/o any devices connected. Actually a full charged and good battery should have something about 12.6 and more. But the fact is, one engine is starting with this low voltage the other not. Perhaps this is the next one which I will change if the test with the solenoid is failing. Besides the starting issue both engines are running and idling good w/o issues.
I also saw in a diagram from the shop manual that between the neutral switch and the solenoid there is a diode connected, only at the starboard engine. Does anybody have an explanation for this? What’s the purpose of this diode?
Thanks guys and a big hello from Germany
Ingo

 

[pete63]

diode was put >06 (i think) for wrong battery connection.


>07

 

[Eclipse1701d]

I was way off. I thought it was associated with the fact that you have to be in neutral to start the engines...

 

[go_panthers]

Is your bilge fan working? Do you run the fan for several minutes before you attempt to start the engines? Sometimes on these boats with deep bilges, the air around the hot engines can get very hot and have very little oxygen. If you attempt to start them without first turning on the fan to bring in fresh cool air, the engines can be hard to start. I realize you are only having a problem with one engine, but placement of air vents and the fan can cause this type of symptom. May sound a bit silly and simple, but it may be a solution.

If you have not done so already, try running the blower fan for several minutes before you attempt to start the warm engine and report back if anything improves or if no change in your problem.

I tested this last night. Put the boat in the lake. Both engines cranked after the second compression stroke. Got to the restaurant about 20 minutes away. Both engines at temp. Go in and eat. Come back, run the blower for a few minutes as we get settled in the boat.

Again, both engines fire right up. Engines are still hot, based on the temp display.

Get to the dock and shut down to get the tow vehicle. Come back and crank the boat without the blower process, and it takes about twice as long for the engines to fire (more compressions).

Small sample size, but interesting....


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[Coastiejoe]

Makes perfect sense. Just like you, your engine needs fresh air. No oxygen no combustion. It would be like trying to start a fire inside of a CO2 fire extinguisher,,,


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[pete63]

I was way off. I thought it was associated with the fact that you have to be in neutral to start the engines...

i'll check the tech sheet updates, i'm not really sure where they put it.

its marked as diode1 before the fuse box, so i'm not sure about other diodes.

 

[ID62]

I guess I found the problem but first I changed the solenoid meanwhile we had 38° Celsius outside. I can tell you I was sweating like hell. The solenoid change doesn't had any result. Same as before and then we decided anyway to go out on the water. There I figured out that the starboard engine needs roughly some tenth of volts more for starting than the port engine. Since my battery seems to be pretty old and only has 12.2 to 12.3 volts even after a long ride or charging, I will replace it. I saw at the volt-meter that it totally fails when I crank the starboard engine. I goes down to just 10 volts and this is too less for starting the engine. I guess also that somewhere in the wiring to the starter I have some corrosion which creates a bigger resistance for this starting circuit. Unfortunately I have to go on an one week business trip in the next days but later I will purchase a new battery. I let you know the result.
Have a great time on the water
Ingo

 

[Coastiejoe]

10.8 volts and lower and the MPEM starts to freak out.


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[ID62]

Here is the finally update of my starting issue. After I changed sensors over cross, checked the resistance of other sensors, changed the fuel pump over cross and even bought a new battery..... I still had the issue.
Thinking about all these points, I came to the starter. A final input came from a thread of Eclipse1701d. He had an equal problem and also starters which seemed to be good but later turned out to be bad. Thank you Eclipse1701d
Actually my boat runs great, perfect idling and acceleration and I had the starter issue only. The funny thing was that sometimes it cranked up at the first time and sometimes you had to try it more than 3 times. At the end of the season it was quite more than in the beginning. With the input from Coastiejoe (thanks for the 10.8 volts info) I was first misleading to a fault battery. And of course, the old one wasn't the best and therefore a change was necessary anyway. But I figured out that the starboard engine was still pulling down the voltages and the issue was still existing. Now I changed the starter and it was very obviously that the old one isn't in good conditions anymore. I had a lot of play in axial direction ( about 1/5 of an inch) and you could spin it very easy with nearly no resistance. Now with a new OEM starter I cranked it up about 15 times and it fired up any time within a second. Starting rpm's are close to 3000, which wasn't before. Since both engines have the same age I have to monitor the port engine. The change is an easy and quick fix, only the gear wheel was a few tenth of a millimeter to big for sitting properly.
But the final feedback for this issue is, don't trust your starters, even they are still looking good. If you have the same issue, just pull the starter out for a check and you can save a lot of trouble on the lake.

 

[Eclipse1701d]

I am so glad that you were able to find the issue. It is apparent that eight years is all one can expect from an oem starter. At least the one in the '07 Utopia. Good luck and enjoy!

 

[ID62]

Hi fellows,
Now here is the finally final update (lol)....
OK, it turned out that after replacing the starter the starboard engine starts as normal, but only for couple times. Then I started my investigations once more. Mysterious issue was, once the engine was running it was running like a champ and we easily topped out between 48 to 51 mph in relation of weather conditions. But in last May it was horrible. I had to crank the engine 3, 4, 5 or more times until it runs and then it was smelling for fuel a few seconds. I checked the forum again and I found a very small hint, that it might be a fuel injector. After I read this I went to the boat, removed the fuel rail and pressurized the fuel system. Fortunately what happened? One injector pissed me full with fuel and it was very obviously that I found the trouble maker. I replaced it and from this time it runs like a champ and it starts like a champ as well. The tricky point on this issue was that I didn't have any leak of performance once it was running.
If you have equal symptoms on your jet, just consider it might be a fuel injector. I hope this helps for those who are just in trouble.
Best Regards from the currently hot South-West Germany