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Two stroke oil????
- Thread starter oct6454
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As long as it meets the requirements for ROTAX engines. This is what the manual says.
High quality low ash API TC injection oil for 2-stroke engines can be
used if BOMBARDIER-ROTAX injection oil is not available.
Never use 4-stroke petroleum or synthetic motor oil and never
mix these with outboard motor oil. Do not use NMMA TC-W, TC-W2 or TC-W3 outboard motor oils or other ashless type 2-stroke oil. Avoid mixing different brands of API TC oil as resulting chemical reaction may cause severe engine damage.
You make the call, there are a lot of opinions on this subject. Me, personally, use the Seadoo XP-S fully synthetic oil and nothing else since my engine rebuild.
:cheers:
High quality low ash API TC injection oil for 2-stroke engines can be
used if BOMBARDIER-ROTAX injection oil is not available.
Never use 4-stroke petroleum or synthetic motor oil and never
mix these with outboard motor oil. Do not use NMMA TC-W, TC-W2 or TC-W3 outboard motor oils or other ashless type 2-stroke oil. Avoid mixing different brands of API TC oil as resulting chemical reaction may cause severe engine damage.
You make the call, there are a lot of opinions on this subject. Me, personally, use the Seadoo XP-S fully synthetic oil and nothing else since my engine rebuild.
:cheers:
JESSECONSOPOLUS
New Member
oil
i use the seadoo oil as well, in my seadoo. the rotax bs calls for it but as long as it meets the specs you can run what u want. i run a castor 927 or a super m in my 440 but only with race fuel like 111 octane. but once you start with a certain oil i wouldnt switch back and forth.
i use the seadoo oil as well, in my seadoo. the rotax bs calls for it but as long as it meets the specs you can run what u want. i run a castor 927 or a super m in my 440 but only with race fuel like 111 octane. but once you start with a certain oil i wouldnt switch back and forth.
gutterboy2ca
New Member
Gulp""" was the weekend and i had no other choice but the Walmart Quicksilver TCW3 oil,hope she don,t blow up on me, better grab some Bombardier crap to dump in her next tank...
This is what is in the seadoo manual on the oil / fuel subject.
Use High quality low ASH API TC Injector oil.
Do Not use NMMA TC-W, TC-W2 or TC-W3 outboard motor oils or other ash less type 2 cycle oil. Avoid mixing different brands of API TC oil as resulting chemical reaction will cause severe engine damage. Never mix Mineral or synthetics oil together.
Never use fuel containing more than 10 % alcohol,( Methanol or Ethanol) as severe damage will occur. The minimum of 87 octane is recommended for most engines.
Karl
Recommended oil and fuel use.
Use High quality low ASH API TC Injector oil.
Do Not use NMMA TC-W, TC-W2 or TC-W3 outboard motor oils or other ash less type 2 cycle oil. Avoid mixing different brands of API TC oil as resulting chemical reaction will cause severe engine damage. Never mix Mineral or synthetics oil together.
Never use fuel containing more than 10 % alcohol,( Methanol or Ethanol) as severe damage will occur. The minimum of 87 octane is recommended for most engines.
Karl
I'm not trying to start anything and I'm sure this has been discussed a bazillion times but has anyone ever experienced FIRST HAND an engine failure from using TCW3 oil?
I know what the manual says but I also know my motorcycle manuals and shop manuals RECOMMEND a lot of things that many owners don't follow and have never had any problems....
Again - no trying to stir the pot but just curious if anyone had experienced an engine failure first hand from the use of TCW3 oil? Not hearsay but first hand? I could possibly see if the Doo was used for racing and was subjected to extremely high temps but I'd be surprised to hear of it for recreational use.
Anyone?
bigJake
Well-Known Member
I have not had engine failure but was using ashelss oil for about 10 hours of ride time because I didn't understand the oil specifications either until I read the same oil tech article a couple weeks ago that is suggested earlier in this thread. (It's a great article that even I could understand 
) I thought I was using the correct oil but after reading the article realized that I was not.
(The label on the oil I was using said it was for both TC-W3 and API-TC applications, so I thought it was ok, but at that time I didn't understand the ashless vs low ash part of the requirement)
My interpretation from the article (and anyone please correct me if I am wrong) is that if you use an ashless oil instead of a low ash oil, then the remnants of the combustion process will not burn off and you will get excessive carbon build up inside the engine. Anyway, when I discovered I was using the wrong oil, I switched oil and cleaned the RAVE valves for the first time. I discoverd that one RAVE was actually stuck and not working due to major buildup of carbon and oil sludge, so that was enough to convince me that the low ash oil is a must.
) I thought I was using the correct oil but after reading the article realized that I was not.(The label on the oil I was using said it was for both TC-W3 and API-TC applications, so I thought it was ok, but at that time I didn't understand the ashless vs low ash part of the requirement)
My interpretation from the article (and anyone please correct me if I am wrong) is that if you use an ashless oil instead of a low ash oil, then the remnants of the combustion process will not burn off and you will get excessive carbon build up inside the engine. Anyway, when I discovered I was using the wrong oil, I switched oil and cleaned the RAVE valves for the first time. I discoverd that one RAVE was actually stuck and not working due to major buildup of carbon and oil sludge, so that was enough to convince me that the low ash oil is a must.
I have not had engine failure but was using ashelss oil for about 10 hours of ride time because I didn't understand the oil specifications either until I read the same oil tech article a couple weeks ago that is suggested earlier in this thread. (It's a great article that even I could understand
(The label on the oil I was using said it was for both TC-W3 and API-TC applications, so I thought it was ok, but at that time I didn't understand the ashless vs low ash part of the requirement)
My interpretation from the article (and anyone please correct me if I am wrong) is that if you use an ashless oil instead of a low ash oil, then the remnants of the combustion process will not burn off and you will get excessive carbon build up inside the engine. Anyway, when I discovered I was using the wrong oil, I switched oil and cleaned the RAVE valves for the first time. I discoverd that one RAVE was actually stuck and not working due to major buildup of carbon and oil sludge, so that was enough to convince me that the low ash oil is a must.
Thanks for the feedback. Sounds reasonable. I'm still not sure how much damage could be done by using the TC-W3 oil.
Still haven't heard from anyone with first hand knowledge of engine problems from using TCW3 oil. Anybody out there?
I was at a shop recently and my buddy told me that I'd better make sure I use Seadoo oil in the thing. He said if I didn't I would burn it up. He sells Yamaha and Kawasaki PWC by the way..... I then asked him if he had any personal knowledge of anyone damaging an engine by not using Seadoo oil and he then admitted his comments were based on hearsay.....
I was at a shop recently and my buddy told me that I'd better make sure I use Seadoo oil in the thing. He said if I didn't I would burn it up. He sells Yamaha and Kawasaki PWC by the way..... I then asked him if he had any personal knowledge of anyone damaging an engine by not using Seadoo oil and he then admitted his comments were based on hearsay.....
bigJake
Well-Known Member
well as i said in prior post my RAVE valve froze up and the O Ring was disintegrated as well as the top of the plastic valve the RAVE screws into broke off, fortunately my RAVE was stuck in the up position otherwise I guess I would have had some major damage from the RAVE falling agaisnt the piston. I can't specifically say I can blame this on the wrong oil because I just bought the skis 2 years ago and I dont know if he ever cleaned the RAVEs so was all this gunk an accumulation or more recent from the wrong oil, I can't say for sure, but I did start to see alot of oil being blown out the stuck RAVE only after using the wrong oil for a few months. Personally I'd play it safe and make sure to use the low ash oil. Read the tech article mentioned earlier in the thread. Very informative.
Lightning546
New Member
I did not have failure but I ran the TC-W3 in mine for 2 riding seasons (a riding season where I live is 10 to 11 months of the year) and the initial break in on the new motor with no rave valve sticking or any problems whatsoever. I tore the top end apart after I realized my mistake and there was absolutely no carbon buildup or varnishing of the cylinders or pistons. I use nothing but AMSOIL synthetic 2 stroke Interceptor race oil (a TC only rated oil) now. I used the AMSOIL HP (TC-W3) before.
AMSOIL will warranty the motor if any damage occurs as a result of using their oil in "any mechanically sound engine", so if the dealer gives you grief and refuses to warranty your ski you have the option of this oil manufacturer covering the costs of the repairs if it is proven that their oil caused the malfunction.
And the best part about it is their oil is about $10 a gallon cheaper than the Seadoo oil.
AMSOIL will warranty the motor if any damage occurs as a result of using their oil in "any mechanically sound engine", so if the dealer gives you grief and refuses to warranty your ski you have the option of this oil manufacturer covering the costs of the repairs if it is proven that their oil caused the malfunction.
And the best part about it is their oil is about $10 a gallon cheaper than the Seadoo oil.
Oil requirements....?
I'd like to ask, are you familar with oil API requirements? I got two trucks. One is a V-8 Triton and the other is a V-8 diesel. They both use the same weight motor oil but different API types. I wonder if I can use my oil for the gas engine for my diesel?.......I wonder what would happen?
Maybe nothing. ....... The point I'm trying to make is, they are not specifically pointing out that you will have some type of catastrophic blow-up, they are only pointing out that if you would like to get the most hours out of that motor, use this type oil. The 2 stroke Rotax's are of the rotary engine type and 2 of them, the 787 and 951 use the counter balance shaft with power valves.
If you use the TCW-3 oils, yeah,....it'll probably run just fine. But, in two identical motors, the one running the NMMA oil may last 250 hours and the one that runs the TC rated oil might run for 700 hours. The idea of the rating of what oil to use is by an engineering standard, not someone just guessing. You could put vegetable oil in an engine and it would run for a while. How long? Oh, maybe 50 hours, maybe 150. We don't know.
So, if your going to base the idea of your decision on what type oil to use by what someone is going to say about an engine breakdown, you might not ge getting the best advice.
Oh, BTW.........I have two 787cc engines from 1997, both original motors on "Full Synthetic". Still getting between 143 and 145 on my compression. I use the Quicksilver brand rated as TC and approved by BRP.........:cheers:
I'd like to ask, are you familar with oil API requirements? I got two trucks. One is a V-8 Triton and the other is a V-8 diesel. They both use the same weight motor oil but different API types. I wonder if I can use my oil for the gas engine for my diesel?.......I wonder what would happen?
Maybe nothing. ....... The point I'm trying to make is, they are not specifically pointing out that you will have some type of catastrophic blow-up, they are only pointing out that if you would like to get the most hours out of that motor, use this type oil. The 2 stroke Rotax's are of the rotary engine type and 2 of them, the 787 and 951 use the counter balance shaft with power valves.
If you use the TCW-3 oils, yeah,....it'll probably run just fine. But, in two identical motors, the one running the NMMA oil may last 250 hours and the one that runs the TC rated oil might run for 700 hours. The idea of the rating of what oil to use is by an engineering standard, not someone just guessing. You could put vegetable oil in an engine and it would run for a while. How long? Oh, maybe 50 hours, maybe 150. We don't know.
So, if your going to base the idea of your decision on what type oil to use by what someone is going to say about an engine breakdown, you might not ge getting the best advice.
Oh, BTW.........I have two 787cc engines from 1997, both original motors on "Full Synthetic". Still getting between 143 and 145 on my compression. I use the Quicksilver brand rated as TC and approved by BRP.........:cheers:
gutterboy2ca
New Member
Quicksilver oil
curious how you can tell this oil is a full synthetic oil, doesn,t say a thing on front or back,other then ashless.and Quote from bottle
(Meets all outboard and personal watercraft manufacturers recomendations for use of NMMA TC WII or TC W3 oils in Premix or oil-injected 2-cycle applications.)
I had this in both of my 96 Seadoo's for first fill-up.Bought a drill Pump and cleaned the tank and lines and re-filled with BRP Oil since it was the exact same price here at the seadoo dealer,no since screwing around with What IF".
BTW the 96 GTX i just bought a couple weeks ago has had Quicksilver oil run in it since it was new,so he told me..
curious how you can tell this oil is a full synthetic oil, doesn,t say a thing on front or back,other then ashless.and Quote from bottle
(Meets all outboard and personal watercraft manufacturers recomendations for use of NMMA TC WII or TC W3 oils in Premix or oil-injected 2-cycle applications.)
I had this in both of my 96 Seadoo's for first fill-up.Bought a drill Pump and cleaned the tank and lines and re-filled with BRP Oil since it was the exact same price here at the seadoo dealer,no since screwing around with What IF".
BTW the 96 GTX i just bought a couple weeks ago has had Quicksilver oil run in it since it was new,so he told me..
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gutterboy2ca
New Member
Here is a nice little list of all the Manufactures and brands of TC-w3 oils,case ya wanna know who makes your Blend,thought it was kinda interesting..
http://www.nmma.org/certification/local/downloads/documents/TC-W3-2009.xlsx
http://www.nmma.org/certification/local/downloads/documents/TC-W3-2009.xlsx
Lightning546
New Member
Interestingly enough it doesn't list the BRP oil (which I have researched and found to be made by Penzoil).
timmyboy76
New Member
Quiksilver...
think, this is what you need to find..
http://www.marinepowerservice.com/B...2/0/parent_cat3/451423/parent_cat4/454141.cfm
Also, a list of all "quiksilver" oils..
http://www.marinepowerservice.com/B...1/454915/parent_cat2/0/parent_cat3/451423.cfm
think, this is what you need to find..
http://www.marinepowerservice.com/B...2/0/parent_cat3/451423/parent_cat4/454141.cfm
Also, a list of all "quiksilver" oils..
http://www.marinepowerservice.com/B...1/454915/parent_cat2/0/parent_cat3/451423.cfm
jhjesse
Well-Known Member
Off season specials
You could wait until off season and search e-bay or one of your favorite marine dealers for a good deal.
I stocked up last winter before the summer riding time. Got the stuff for almost half price and had plenty to run all summer.
Could be an option if a person just wanted to stick with the OEM brand of oil, but thought the price was to high.
You could wait until off season and search e-bay or one of your favorite marine dealers for a good deal.
I stocked up last winter before the summer riding time. Got the stuff for almost half price and had plenty to run all summer.
Could be an option if a person just wanted to stick with the OEM brand of oil, but thought the price was to high.
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Quicksilver synthetic?
I buy this from my local Walmart store. The brands you have the pix of is not full synthetic. The Quicksilver oil also makes a synthetic blend. They also make many, or most of their oils in TCW-3 oil, so be careful of what you pick up. If you look on the back of the bottle, read the label. If it's BRP approved, it'll be stated so.
At Walmart, I buy it by the gallon but it's not in the sporting goods section, it's in the automotive section where the oils are. I was going to take a pix of the bottle for you but I used the last of it in my boat this past month. This link I went to has it in the same one gallon jug that I buy it in there. Although this web site is a bit expensive, I pay about $31 bucks for it at Walmart.
The label has a purple banter in it and it states in plane site, "Full Synthetic". I will not use anything less in my mid 90 model engines. Why? I've taken them down to the cylinders a couple times and like what I see.
When I first entered this tread, I think what was getting me on it was the question of "has anyone blown an engine up using TCW-3 oils?". The reason is, if my engine blows up, I am not qualified to determine that the oil was the cause. If I put a aftermarket piston in my ski and it blows, then I can blame it on the piston or wrist pin bearings. But, when you lose an engine on oil failure, it's usually because it made another part fail. So, are we qualifed to say it was due to the oil we use? No, I dont' think many of us here are Metallurgists with the qualifications to determine, without a doubt, that was why that part failed. Now, there may be some really bright mechanics that can hypothesize that it is why it happened. But say that we are certain? No, I can't do it either. But, if I were using TCW-3 oils, it would be the first thing I looked at as a possible cause.............:cheers:
I buy this from my local Walmart store. The brands you have the pix of is not full synthetic. The Quicksilver oil also makes a synthetic blend. They also make many, or most of their oils in TCW-3 oil, so be careful of what you pick up. If you look on the back of the bottle, read the label. If it's BRP approved, it'll be stated so.
At Walmart, I buy it by the gallon but it's not in the sporting goods section, it's in the automotive section where the oils are. I was going to take a pix of the bottle for you but I used the last of it in my boat this past month. This link I went to has it in the same one gallon jug that I buy it in there. Although this web site is a bit expensive, I pay about $31 bucks for it at Walmart.
The label has a purple banter in it and it states in plane site, "Full Synthetic". I will not use anything less in my mid 90 model engines. Why? I've taken them down to the cylinders a couple times and like what I see.
When I first entered this tread, I think what was getting me on it was the question of "has anyone blown an engine up using TCW-3 oils?". The reason is, if my engine blows up, I am not qualified to determine that the oil was the cause. If I put a aftermarket piston in my ski and it blows, then I can blame it on the piston or wrist pin bearings. But, when you lose an engine on oil failure, it's usually because it made another part fail. So, are we qualifed to say it was due to the oil we use? No, I dont' think many of us here are Metallurgists with the qualifications to determine, without a doubt, that was why that part failed. Now, there may be some really bright mechanics that can hypothesize that it is why it happened. But say that we are certain? No, I can't do it either. But, if I were using TCW-3 oils, it would be the first thing I looked at as a possible cause.............:cheers:
You cant run a Direct injection rotax engine on Synthetic blend. Blend being the key word. Fully synthetic SeadooXPS has been tested and researched thoroughly by Seadoo.
A letter went out to all dealers some years ago telling Seadoo Dealers to use nothing else but this.
Now Synthetic blend PWC oils, will work no problem on a carberated Rotax engine. Why take the chance with gumed up rave valves and large carbon deposits on piston crowns.
Fully synthetic is only a few $/£'s more. Its peace of mind that your Boat /Ski is running right when your out in open water that counts.
A letter went out to all dealers some years ago telling Seadoo Dealers to use nothing else but this.
Now Synthetic blend PWC oils, will work no problem on a carberated Rotax engine. Why take the chance with gumed up rave valves and large carbon deposits on piston crowns.
Fully synthetic is only a few $/£'s more. Its peace of mind that your Boat /Ski is running right when your out in open water that counts.
Fair enough. I guess you indirectly answered my question. I had been lead to believe (probably just my incorrect interpretation) that if you didn't use Seadoo (low ash) oil and used TCW-3 (ashless) oil that it would cause some type of catostrophic failure ("burn it up"). If it is "ok" to use TCW-3 oil and the Seadoo oil is a "preferred" oil to get longer life then I get that. I was just questioning the ability to use TCW-3 oil without experiencing some type of failure. You can tell I am no oil expert but I am cheap....
Appreciate the feedback. From what I am gathering a guy may or may not experience any problems from using ashless oil but is most likely to get more hours out of his engine if he uses the preferred (low ash) Seadoo oil... Is that a fair summary?
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