trickle charger ?
- Thread starter mbender83
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Cold...brrrrrr
I see your from Connecticut..........yeah, your battery will get cold. The freezing cold is the best way to kill a battery. The trickle charger will keep it warm. If you have a workshop, you may think of removing it from your PWC and leave it in a warmer area.
Battery's are only good for a year or so. You may get two out of it, depending on the brand.
You can get a really cheap trickle charger. If you get a standard battery charger that has trickle, 10 amps and 40 amps capacity, then you'll spend a few more bucks. But as a simple maintainer, the trickle charger is the best for less. Walmart has them.
Stay warm...............
BTW, I have family in Trumbull.......I don't visit in the winter. I live on the Gulf of Mexico!...........
Warning: Battery's can emit explosive vapor will charging. Do not store in your house. If charging with anything other than a trickle charger, have adequate ventilation
I see your from Connecticut..........yeah, your battery will get cold. The freezing cold is the best way to kill a battery. The trickle charger will keep it warm. If you have a workshop, you may think of removing it from your PWC and leave it in a warmer area.
Battery's are only good for a year or so. You may get two out of it, depending on the brand.
You can get a really cheap trickle charger. If you get a standard battery charger that has trickle, 10 amps and 40 amps capacity, then you'll spend a few more bucks. But as a simple maintainer, the trickle charger is the best for less. Walmart has them.
Stay warm...............
BTW, I have family in Trumbull.......I don't visit in the winter. I live on the Gulf of Mexico!...........
Warning: Battery's can emit explosive vapor will charging. Do not store in your house. If charging with anything other than a trickle charger, have adequate ventilation
I agree with seadoosnipe. To add a little to that you could put the battery on the trickle charger for about 1 full day( 12 hrs) a month to keep it up to full charge. If it is not a maintence free battery remember to check the water level in it . Only add distilled water if it is low. There is no need to keep it on constantly as it will also present a chance the charger could short out and cause a problem, like a fire. So remember adequate ventilation and don't forget it on the charger for a long time. Keep an eye on it while it is on the charger.
Karl
Karl
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thanks
wow im very impressed on the info and way the forum works. i belonged to one when i had my g35 but it was hard to get real answers. anyway, the battery is out and the place that winterized it has a charger for 70 bucks. he said it turns on and off depending on the need of the battery. instead of having to manually test and charge everyday. should i expect a strong chemical odor. i plan to keep it in the house but not in a high traffic area. i do have common sense i dont want to sound too stupid... but then again id rather not blow up my house over a $ 100 battery
wow im very impressed on the info and way the forum works. i belonged to one when i had my g35 but it was hard to get real answers. anyway, the battery is out and the place that winterized it has a charger for 70 bucks. he said it turns on and off depending on the need of the battery. instead of having to manually test and charge everyday. should i expect a strong chemical odor. i plan to keep it in the house but not in a high traffic area. i do have common sense i dont want to sound too stupid... but then again id rather not blow up my house over a $ 100 battery
Battery...
Wow, $70 bucks!....for that price, they should throw in a couple blankets to wrap the battery in too.........:rofl:
You can pick up the little trickle charger at Wally World (Walmart) for less than 20 bucks. They have a very low amp supply, so it could be left on all the time. I use a larger model with the ability to "start" a dead engine or just send in a trickle. I leave it on the trickle all the time. When you store it, it's best to put it on a piece of wood. A cement floor will draw the power from the battery.
Good luck and stay warm up there in the winter!.......
Added on 11-28-07....it's been pointed out to me, by KustomKarl (who I found out deals with batteries as part of his job), that "the battery losing a charge by sitting on a cement floor", may be folklore. But I think I'd still prefer to do it like that, just in the event there is battery acid (sulfuric acid) on the bottom of the battery. He also pointed out the cheap trickle charger can overheat. I've not experienced this problem before, but he says it is something that can happen. So if you use the less expensive type, it may be worth your time to check on it now and then to ensure it doesn't overheat. Read the box label, it will tell you if it shuts off automatically in the event it overheats or when the battery is charged.
Thanks for the PM Karl, offering your expertise on batteries. I'll remember in the future who to ask when I have a battery question!....
Wow, $70 bucks!....for that price, they should throw in a couple blankets to wrap the battery in too.........:rofl:
You can pick up the little trickle charger at Wally World (Walmart) for less than 20 bucks. They have a very low amp supply, so it could be left on all the time. I use a larger model with the ability to "start" a dead engine or just send in a trickle. I leave it on the trickle all the time. When you store it, it's best to put it on a piece of wood. A cement floor will draw the power from the battery.
Good luck and stay warm up there in the winter!.......
Added on 11-28-07....it's been pointed out to me, by KustomKarl (who I found out deals with batteries as part of his job), that "the battery losing a charge by sitting on a cement floor", may be folklore. But I think I'd still prefer to do it like that, just in the event there is battery acid (sulfuric acid) on the bottom of the battery. He also pointed out the cheap trickle charger can overheat. I've not experienced this problem before, but he says it is something that can happen. So if you use the less expensive type, it may be worth your time to check on it now and then to ensure it doesn't overheat. Read the box label, it will tell you if it shuts off automatically in the event it overheats or when the battery is charged.
Thanks for the PM Karl, offering your expertise on batteries. I'll remember in the future who to ask when I have a battery question!....
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walmart trip
my buddy told me about the cement thing too...i never heard about it but i think its worh listening too anyway. as for the price of the trickle charger, looks like i need to take a ride to my neighborhood walmart. i didnt think $ 70 was that bad. looks i need to look into this. thanks again.
my buddy told me about the cement thing too...i never heard about it but i think its worh listening too anyway. as for the price of the trickle charger, looks like i need to take a ride to my neighborhood walmart. i didnt think $ 70 was that bad. looks i need to look into this. thanks again.
I Agree With Karl
There are no majical powers in concrete that suck the life out of a battery. This is a urban myth. There is a downside to having a battery stored on concrete.....temperature. The cool temp of the concrete will amplify the discharge rate of a stored battery. It's best to keep it off the ground.
Keep your battery clean. Dirt, acid,etc. on your battery will make a connection between the POS and NEG posts causing a discharge.
Last but not least. I CAN'T SLEEP AT NIGHT IF THERE IS A BATTERY CHARGER GOING ! I just don't trust the automatic part of a automatic charger. I do it the old fashion way.....put the charger on 2 amps for 2 hours once a week. I then unplug the charger from the wall, drink a six pack of beer and sleep like a baby.
Dawg
There are no majical powers in concrete that suck the life out of a battery. This is a urban myth. There is a downside to having a battery stored on concrete.....temperature. The cool temp of the concrete will amplify the discharge rate of a stored battery. It's best to keep it off the ground.
Keep your battery clean. Dirt, acid,etc. on your battery will make a connection between the POS and NEG posts causing a discharge.
Last but not least. I CAN'T SLEEP AT NIGHT IF THERE IS A BATTERY CHARGER GOING ! I just don't trust the automatic part of a automatic charger. I do it the old fashion way.....put the charger on 2 amps for 2 hours once a week. I then unplug the charger from the wall, drink a six pack of beer and sleep like a baby.
Dawg
Thanks Dawg........I don't sleep with xmas lights on either ... but some people do! I perfer the 12 hrs a month based on 1 day a month. It keeps my battery warrantys up to par. I sell and service powerchairs and scooters for the old folks... I don't have time to keep a watch everyweek on all my personal toys either.
A little research on batteries...
When I was about 14, I was taught by my mentor (my uncle) in engine rebuilding, that you don’t leave a battery on cement. That it would cause it to go dead. I have lived by that rule ever since. Well, it was pointed out by a fellow forum member, who is experienced in batteries, it was a myth. After doing a little research, I found truth to what he says and to what I said. As quoted below, it states that when batteries were cased in hard rubber many years ago, they would lose their charge if left on the cement. Well, that would be when I was about 14. Today, the battery casings are made with different materials, so it seems that rule should now be thrown out the window!
Credit to www.TripleCrowngolfcarts.com for the use of their website to get this information and I hope it gives some insight to your battery questions. I found it to be an interesting read.
How does temperature affect the performance of my batteries.
At higher temperatures (above 77 degrees F) battery capacity generally increases, usually at the cost of battery life. Higher temperatures also increase the self-discharge characteristic. Colder temperatures (below 77 degrees F) will lower battery capacity and prolong battery life. Cooler temperatures will slow self-discharge. Therefore, operating batteries at temperatures at or slightly below 77 degrees F will optimize both performance and life.
Do batteries self-discharge when not in use?
All batteries, regardless of their chemistry, self-discharge. The rate of self-discharge depends on the type of battery, the age of the battery, and the storage temperature the batteries are exposed to. As an estimate, Trojan batteries self-discharge approximately 4% per week at 80 degrees F.
Does my deep cycle battery develop a memory?
Lead acid batteries do not develop any type of memory. This means that you do not have to deep discharge or completely discharge a battery before recharging it. For optimum life and performance, we generally recommend a discharge of 20 to 50% of the battery’s rated capacity even though the battery is capable of being cycled to 80%.
Overcharging: Continuous charging causes accelerated corrosion of the positive plates, excessive water consumption, and in some cases, damaging temperatures within a lead acid battery. Deep cycle batteries should be charged after each discharge of more than 50% of the batteries rated capacity, and/or after prolonged storage of 30 days or more.
What are some common myths associated with batteries?
• Half of a non-buffered aspirin in each cell and then a fast charge breaks up sulfation and extends battery life- Aspirin forms ascetic acid which attacks the positive grid and active material.
• Storing a battery on concrete will discharge it quicker- Long ago, when battery cases were made out of natural rubber, this was true. Now, however, battery cases are made of polypropylene or other modern materials that allow a battery to be stored anywhere. A battery’s rate of discharge is affected by its construction, its age, and the ambient temperature. The main issue with storing on concrete is that if the battery leaks, the concrete will be damaged.
When I was about 14, I was taught by my mentor (my uncle) in engine rebuilding, that you don’t leave a battery on cement. That it would cause it to go dead. I have lived by that rule ever since. Well, it was pointed out by a fellow forum member, who is experienced in batteries, it was a myth. After doing a little research, I found truth to what he says and to what I said. As quoted below, it states that when batteries were cased in hard rubber many years ago, they would lose their charge if left on the cement. Well, that would be when I was about 14. Today, the battery casings are made with different materials, so it seems that rule should now be thrown out the window!
Credit to www.TripleCrowngolfcarts.com for the use of their website to get this information and I hope it gives some insight to your battery questions. I found it to be an interesting read.
How does temperature affect the performance of my batteries.
At higher temperatures (above 77 degrees F) battery capacity generally increases, usually at the cost of battery life. Higher temperatures also increase the self-discharge characteristic. Colder temperatures (below 77 degrees F) will lower battery capacity and prolong battery life. Cooler temperatures will slow self-discharge. Therefore, operating batteries at temperatures at or slightly below 77 degrees F will optimize both performance and life.
Do batteries self-discharge when not in use?
All batteries, regardless of their chemistry, self-discharge. The rate of self-discharge depends on the type of battery, the age of the battery, and the storage temperature the batteries are exposed to. As an estimate, Trojan batteries self-discharge approximately 4% per week at 80 degrees F.
Does my deep cycle battery develop a memory?
Lead acid batteries do not develop any type of memory. This means that you do not have to deep discharge or completely discharge a battery before recharging it. For optimum life and performance, we generally recommend a discharge of 20 to 50% of the battery’s rated capacity even though the battery is capable of being cycled to 80%.
Overcharging: Continuous charging causes accelerated corrosion of the positive plates, excessive water consumption, and in some cases, damaging temperatures within a lead acid battery. Deep cycle batteries should be charged after each discharge of more than 50% of the batteries rated capacity, and/or after prolonged storage of 30 days or more.
What are some common myths associated with batteries?
• Half of a non-buffered aspirin in each cell and then a fast charge breaks up sulfation and extends battery life- Aspirin forms ascetic acid which attacks the positive grid and active material.
• Storing a battery on concrete will discharge it quicker- Long ago, when battery cases were made out of natural rubber, this was true. Now, however, battery cases are made of polypropylene or other modern materials that allow a battery to be stored anywhere. A battery’s rate of discharge is affected by its construction, its age, and the ambient temperature. The main issue with storing on concrete is that if the battery leaks, the concrete will be damaged.
The truth be known...now!
Well, give you a puter and a topic that needs a response, and look out, here comes Louis, Seadoosnipe...to the rescue! Great job on a little research. Now about those lottery numbers...:rofl: :cheers:
Well, give you a puter and a topic that needs a response, and look out, here comes Louis, Seadoosnipe...to the rescue! Great job on a little research. Now about those lottery numbers...:rofl: :cheers:
Numbers!
Numbers.......oh yeah, I can help here too!......
07, 12, 23, 24, 30, and 44. ..........shhhhhhh, don' tell anyone though!:rofl:
Numbers.......oh yeah, I can help here too!......
07, 12, 23, 24, 30, and 44. ..........shhhhhhh, don' tell anyone though!:rofl:
We all like a a sence of humor... It keeps us going... any other questions give us a shout and we are all glad to help.
Karl
Karl
ennis, you should see what he can do with your social security number...lol
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You guys!
Ah, come on........I ain't all that. I'm just a computer geek/mechanic/husband/father/carpenter/roofer/dishwasher and any other category my wife sticks me into, that likes to read and write!...........If I'm not pretending to be working.....:rofl:
Ah, come on........I ain't all that. I'm just a computer geek/mechanic/husband/father/carpenter/roofer/dishwasher and any other category my wife sticks me into, that likes to read and write!...........If I'm not pretending to be working.....:rofl:
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Battery Tender
I've been told NOT to use an ordinary trickle charger on a seadoo battery as that will fry it if left plugged in - the standard trickle charger is not automatic and will not turn off. Instead, I've been told to use a battery tender which is automatic and turns on and off only when the battery needs charging.
Deltran makes Battery Tender Plus which charges at 1.5 amps. They also make Portable Power Tender which charges at either 2.5 amps or 5 amps. I cannot get a consistent answer from over 5 stores selling the battery tenders. Some say that 2.5 amps is harmful over time and other say it is fine and that, while it charges faster, it will shut off and therefore not harm the battery.
I like the idea of the higher amp option because I can revert to either a 2.5 or 5 amp mode for use with other kinds of batteries such as my car battery.
The question is: will a 2.5 amp supply be ok for the seadoo battery OR is it harmful ????
I've been told NOT to use an ordinary trickle charger on a seadoo battery as that will fry it if left plugged in - the standard trickle charger is not automatic and will not turn off. Instead, I've been told to use a battery tender which is automatic and turns on and off only when the battery needs charging.
Deltran makes Battery Tender Plus which charges at 1.5 amps. They also make Portable Power Tender which charges at either 2.5 amps or 5 amps. I cannot get a consistent answer from over 5 stores selling the battery tenders. Some say that 2.5 amps is harmful over time and other say it is fine and that, while it charges faster, it will shut off and therefore not harm the battery.
I like the idea of the higher amp option because I can revert to either a 2.5 or 5 amp mode for use with other kinds of batteries such as my car battery.
The question is: will a 2.5 amp supply be ok for the seadoo battery OR is it harmful ????
amperage?
That's a good question. I sat down and thought about what you said as far as if 2.5 amps would harm the battery over time. I don't think so. Reason being; when the battery is in a car or motorcycle or any other engine, including the Seadoo, the charging system is supplying about 14 vdc to the battery at all times, whether the battery needs it or not. You can rationalize that you only run your boat for short periods of time or that it doesn't run all the time so the battery can take a rest. Well, if you think about other 12 vdc engines, like truckers (yeah, I know, most run 24 vdc, but the principle is still the same) or any other commercial vehicle which is constantly running, they aren't warned about damaging their batteries if they send a constant charge.
Myself, I use a standard trickle charger hooked up to my battery all the time. But I did buy a 110vac timer that hooks up between the charger and the electrical socket and only comes on once a day for 2 hours. Works for me.
KustomKarl deals with batteries on a daily basis as part of his work. I'm sure he can offer a good opinion.
That's a good question. I sat down and thought about what you said as far as if 2.5 amps would harm the battery over time. I don't think so. Reason being; when the battery is in a car or motorcycle or any other engine, including the Seadoo, the charging system is supplying about 14 vdc to the battery at all times, whether the battery needs it or not. You can rationalize that you only run your boat for short periods of time or that it doesn't run all the time so the battery can take a rest. Well, if you think about other 12 vdc engines, like truckers (yeah, I know, most run 24 vdc, but the principle is still the same) or any other commercial vehicle which is constantly running, they aren't warned about damaging their batteries if they send a constant charge.
Myself, I use a standard trickle charger hooked up to my battery all the time. But I did buy a 110vac timer that hooks up between the charger and the electrical socket and only comes on once a day for 2 hours. Works for me.
KustomKarl deals with batteries on a daily basis as part of his work. I'm sure he can offer a good opinion.
thanks - I was thinking exactly the same thing about continued charging of the battery when in use. However, doesn't the car battery technically discharge while in use and the alternator continuously top it off ?
The messages I keep getting from the resellers and seadoo dealers are that 1) a constant charging action will overheat the battery and damage it and 2) the slower the recharge, the better and that the lesser amp trickle chargers are better (The higher amp charges merely charge the battery faster but somehow that faster charge is not as good for the battery as the trickle charge - especially over repeated chargings.)
Overall, they tell me that without diligence about the length of time recharging, the battery will overheat and fail sooner than later.
Actually, I have a call into Deltran (who makes Battery Tenders) and will see what they say.
The messages I keep getting from the resellers and seadoo dealers are that 1) a constant charging action will overheat the battery and damage it and 2) the slower the recharge, the better and that the lesser amp trickle chargers are better (The higher amp charges merely charge the battery faster but somehow that faster charge is not as good for the battery as the trickle charge - especially over repeated chargings.)
Overall, they tell me that without diligence about the length of time recharging, the battery will overheat and fail sooner than later.
Actually, I have a call into Deltran (who makes Battery Tenders) and will see what they say.
Here is a good rule of thumb...If you "cycle" a battery (Run it down and re-charge it) it will last a long time. If you keep a constant charge on the battery and it never "cycles" the battery will fail sooner than later. It does a battery good if it cycles. The lower the amps on a charge over time the better...the higher the amp and quicker charge time not good, except for short range use/example; jump starting. (this info is from experience and advise from Interstate, my battery supplier)
Karl
Karl
More Research!
So I took the time to do a little more research on the issues of trickle charging, also known as float charging.
I found something very intersting at a battery website that stated, a battery is always in a state where it is discharging itself. So if you remove the battery from it's normal charging source, you can put it on a constant trickle or float charge as it's also called, with no more than 1 1/2 amps, without the danger of boil off. It seems that a lot of opinions about the damage done to a battery if left on an extended charge is that "boil off" will occur and damage the plates of the battery. This is true if your using a charger with settings higher than that of a trickle charge.
But in the interest of both opinions, there is a charger sold at your local WallyWorld (WalMart) called an Everstart. It cost about $25 dollars and has a green light that shows the battery is charging and a red light showing that it's charged and the charger is cycled down..........
Hope this also helps.
BTW, I've used a 1 amp motorcycle charger on my boats, etc... for over 15 years during the winter months and my batteries have always lasted from 1 to 3 years, depending on which battery. Motorcyle, one year........my deep cycle trolling motor battery lasted almost 5 years........
So I took the time to do a little more research on the issues of trickle charging, also known as float charging.
I found something very intersting at a battery website that stated, a battery is always in a state where it is discharging itself. So if you remove the battery from it's normal charging source, you can put it on a constant trickle or float charge as it's also called, with no more than 1 1/2 amps, without the danger of boil off. It seems that a lot of opinions about the damage done to a battery if left on an extended charge is that "boil off" will occur and damage the plates of the battery. This is true if your using a charger with settings higher than that of a trickle charge.
But in the interest of both opinions, there is a charger sold at your local WallyWorld (WalMart) called an Everstart. It cost about $25 dollars and has a green light that shows the battery is charging and a red light showing that it's charged and the charger is cycled down..........
Hope this also helps.
BTW, I've used a 1 amp motorcycle charger on my boats, etc... for over 15 years during the winter months and my batteries have always lasted from 1 to 3 years, depending on which battery. Motorcyle, one year........my deep cycle trolling motor battery lasted almost 5 years........
not sure what happened to my long thesis of last nite. Seadoosnipe replied above but I can't find the message sent before that. It may end up being out of order but perhaps it is worth posting so the logic of the responses can be followed.
Anyway, sounds like the additional research you did is pointing in a similar direction to what the Delran tech specialist told me.
One area I am still not 100% sure about is the combination of boil off and charging amps. I'm not sure this is exactly the case. The Delran specialist mentioned that every battery should have a max charging amp limit on the battery itself and I don't think there is a problem with using a charger up to those number of amps.
The real issue is that, without an automatic "turn off" capability, any charger will cause boil off (even a 1 amp charger). Also, the higher the charger rating, the faster the top off in charge. However, it is apparently better to bring the battery along slowly if you have to do it.
The Delran tech specialist suggested that their Battery Tender Plus has advanced circuitry to better keep the battery at its ideal state than other products, including their lower end products. I interpreted the message as being the lower end products won't damage the battery but may not extend the otherwise "normal" life.
Lastly, the local marina mavens mentioned seadoo batteries have a notoriously short lifespan (1-2 years) but they do not understand it from a technological perspective. I'll be very interested to see if this Battery Tender Plus actually extends my battery life beyond that. Let's make a point of circling back here in the summer of say 2010 - 2011 ;-).
I think we are forgetting about something...this battery cost retail about $40.00-$50.00 here in Florida retail...I used to keep 3 or 4 dry on the shelf and a box of electrolite(acid) at my shop while racing to insure I always had a fresh one to drop on that sunday event when one took a dump. you could spend lots of money on a charger of any nature, but batteries arn't that expensive to loose sleep over. Just get r done...
boil off!
I think you may be missing something here on the boil off issue. When you buy a 12 vdc battery, you buy it by the amount of cranking amps it holds. The more cranking amps, the more it cost. I haven't looked up the requirements for the Seadoo cranking amps but most batteries vary anywhere between 300 to 600 cold cranking amps. Which to me translates that if you have an idle battery, it will slowly discharge itself over a period of time. If your using a 1 to 1.5 amp trickle charger, then your probably close to a match on the amount of power being discharged. So in theory, the continous use of a small 1 amp trickle charger will never supply enough amps to cause boil off................:cheers:
I think you may be missing something here on the boil off issue. When you buy a 12 vdc battery, you buy it by the amount of cranking amps it holds. The more cranking amps, the more it cost. I haven't looked up the requirements for the Seadoo cranking amps but most batteries vary anywhere between 300 to 600 cold cranking amps. Which to me translates that if you have an idle battery, it will slowly discharge itself over a period of time. If your using a 1 to 1.5 amp trickle charger, then your probably close to a match on the amount of power being discharged. So in theory, the continous use of a small 1 amp trickle charger will never supply enough amps to cause boil off................:cheers:
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