Time to sell?

[dbracela]

This is more of a rant post than anything else. Not looking for technical advice, but welcome any insights. Mods, move or delete this if you want. I just need to vent.

Today was a great day to be on the boat. Except that the boat was in the driveway with me hanging head down, feet up, as I fixed yet another failure.

I'm not sure what to do. Over the past two years I have put a couple hundred hours of work into the boat, and tons of money. I'm upside down in this thing both literally and figuratively.

Last week I installed a rebuilt engine, replaced every line, clamp, tie, and filter. Broke in the engine and all seemed well. Yesterday my wife was going out for a boat day with her shift. Usually three or four boats go, this time there was only two and space was getting tight. I asked her why she didn't want to bring ours. "Because it scares me, it always breaks when I take it on my own." She also has trouble with chokes, etc... so has a hard time starting it. Her friends have I/O's and "just have to turn a key." The last time out on the lake I didn't have any fun either. Always worried what the next thing is going to be. What's the point in owning this thing if everyone is afraid to be on it. She says to keep it, but she will only use it with me around. Maybe that'll change with time, as she sees it run without it breaking down.

Today I was going to take it out, but when I went to do the pre ride check (thanks pale rider!), I found a lot of oil in the hull. Took me a while to find it, but I noticed a leak coming from behind the oil pump. Here's why:




Luckily I had replaced the other oil pump, due to a broken bleed screw. I used a grabit and pulled the broken screw out and installed it all on the boat. I have no idea how this happened. I hadn't removed it from the boat. Obviously it had been replaced, as it is white and my engines are silver. Not sure why I didn't see the leak as I changed the oil lines. On the plus side, I can now change oil pumps with my eyes closed.

The boat is running fine now. I repaired it all with the idea that I will keep it, so it's done right. But. I still feel uncomfortable. This machine and I just don't get along. I've owned used old crap all my life, I can, and do, fix most things on all the equipment I own. I restore 50 year old cars as a hobby. I'm not new to the idea of things breaking. But... I am tired of not being able to be out on the boat, I think it's time for me to finally be the previous owner of something. If I sell, I'll be buying brand new with warranty. If I had another craft to use as I fix this one, I wouldn't mind it at all, I enjoy this stuff. Just tired of wasting vacation.

Repairs so far: 1 new to me pump, rebuilt it and rebuilt the other one. 2 new skat trak impellers. New wear rings, cones, and anti-rattle kits. All new driveline seals/parts. Starboard engine rebuilt. Every fuel, oil, and cooling line replaced. Carbs cleaned. New fuel pumps on order. One new and one repaired oil pump. New buzzer. New shift handle. Every cable is new except the right throttle and left choke. Seats repaired. Hull cleaned, compounded, and waxed, gel coat repairs done, so she looks great. Hydro turf added (now dirty, but I'll clean it. ) currently trying to figure out why I get so many bubbles in my pisser line. New battery cables, new spark plug wires (got a shock once when I touched the head). Rebuilt raves, water control valves, etc... Now that it's all new shouldn't I be able to trust it?

My wife had waited 40 years to own a boat and I bought us a dud. Lake test? What's that? I have one of those cool wives that doesn't care what I do with my money, so basically I have the option to buy new, and I've been thinking of going bigger. 20' at least. (What are people's opinions on the newer challenger 210/230?). Or, I can trust myself and get over my paranoia. I thought I had my mind up today to sell it, now I'm on the fence again. If I do, I'll wait to list it until I've figured out the cooling issue. Not selling my problems to someone else.

That's the rant for now, and advice or thoughts are welcomed.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

You don't want to sell a boat that's not fully tested, do you? With 2 engines, at least you can get back to the dock if almost/nearly anything happens?

I guess your wife needs to pull you around at the end of a rope so she can get used to playing skipper?

 

[dbracela]

Oh, she drives it. She's a hell of a tube driver. Just want her in something reliable, and that she's comfortable taking out on her own. We'll see what happens, just needed that off my chest.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Having two engines in the bilge probably quadruples the chance the boat can return to the dock under it's own power in the event of some sort of mechanical failure. That's quite an advantage in terms of probability for return to the dock, however, almost doubles the chance a mechanical failure of some sort might occur.

Maybe that's why you went for dual screws in the first place....

 

[jhjesse]

Go newer with twin screws.
Two strokes are getting older and are not made anymore. Parts are hard to come by and getting harder. They are never coming back...so we must get use to the idea of eventually going 4 stroke if we want to keep boating.
My plan is to go 4 stroke in a year or two. Been eyeing a twin screw Islandia, as well as a Yamaha SX210/AR230. Bigger boat for the kids and grandkids with plenty of power to come out of the hole. JMTC

 

[Dr Honda]

Welllllll..............................


First... that's a new one on me. I have NEVER seen a pump break like that. It's obviously "Physical" damage. (someone, something hit it) Even if the pump bound somehow.... it would just shear the plastic drive. It could have been broken before you even bought it... and it just now cracked all the way though.


Regardless... it is a 15 year old boat... and things are going to need fixed. I guess this is why I always buy projects. If you buy them broke, then you can get them cheap, and fix them right. (and be into them for less $$$) I've seen it a bunch of times, where I guy buys a +15 year old seadoo at a premium price... and within a year or so... it needs EVERYTHING.


If you buy new... you should be able to trust it. But... a $300/mo payment isn't any fun either. AND... let's face it... the guys (like us) who hang on to the older boats and skis want to avoid a payment. AND... since you are up in CAN... your boating season is so short... it's painful to write that check for the 8 months out of the year, that you can't use it.

Speaking of new.... you do realize you can't buy a "New" seadoo boat anymore... right? I guess there are a few still out there... but they stopped production last year.

Personally... because of all the features seadoo put on the boats... they priced themselves out of the recreational market. Even a base model 20' was pushing $30k.

OK... I wanted an Islandia... so I was sticking with SeaDoo. But, I'm not a brand loyal guy... and I would probably go look at a Yamaha. I think the base model 19' boat is under $20k.



Anyway... I have no problems trusting old boats... once I work my magic on them. The problem you are facing now is... if you only replaced one engine... there is a chance that the second one is on it's last leg. But... it sounds like you've replaced/fix so much... it would be a shame to walk away from it now. (not to mention, the $$$ loss)

 

[dbracela]

Yup, that's what I did. Bought the boat at a premium price, as I have too many projects already. I wouldn't mind keeping it, if something else breaks, oh well, I can fix it. I just wish the missus would be comfortable taking it out without me there. We are both shift workers, and our schedules only line up every so often.

Speaking of oil pumps Dr, to get the shaft out, do I need to take off the mag cover? Both pumps primed up well and are holding oil, but I'm just wondering... For the future. It has the black shafts.

Screw it, I'll keep it, get the wife out on it a few times without any major break downs and hope she decides she can trust it.

Thanks for talking me down off the ledge.

 

[LouDoo]

Ya know this thread reminds me of Chester's signature line, and I'm just quoting from memory, something like this, "speed is expensive, how much do you want to spend?" And I take this to mean both time, money, and emotional expense.

So if you want something just to putt along on the lake, that's trouble free, get a pontoon boat with a 4-stroke Merc., If you want something more fun you're gonna have to pay for it.

Lou

 

[dbracela]

True enough Lou. We want the speed, so we'll keep paying for it. Been a bad year for a lot of reasons, probably just taking my frustrations out on the boat. Taking it for a run on lake eerie on Monday, fingers crossed.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

"a $300/mo payment isn't any fun either."

Especially during a long-cold winter! That's what I mention to customers shopping/lurking for a used one, but you have to be willing and able to get your hands dirty when the SHTF, and sometimes it does at just the wrong time. A used boat isn't the ticket for just anyone, it can make a huge difference who you buy it from.

 

[rjcress]

... I thought I had my mind up today to sell it, now I'm on the fence again. If I do, I'll wait to list it until I've figured out the cooling issue. Not selling my problems to someone else.

That's the rant for now, and advice or thoughts are welcomed.

Dude!?! Are you the voice in my head?
I swear, your rant matches pretty closely to my thoughts and feelings about my '96 Challenger.
Not my first boat, but I also have gone through and replaced, rebuilt, or at least cleaned, inspected and reinstalled most parts on my boat. In my prior 28-ish years of boating I can only recall being in a power boat that had to be towed back to the dock... um.... actually, I can't remember ever being towed. We've towed a few people, but I had never been on the other end of the tow rope.
With this boat I've been towed in at least 6 times so far this season. Every time we go out I hold my breath waiting for it to break.

I keep telling myself that all the hours of hard work will pay off and I'll have a good, reliable boat... but so far, it keeps crapping on me.
When the engine quite the most recent time and I resigned myself to crate it up and send it back to the engine shop for the 4th time since January, I swore that I will put a for sale sign on it as soon as it is "right"... but therein lies the problem. If I honestly believe it is right, then WTF would I want to sell it. This is the catch 22 of being an honest seller. I guess the other option is to cut my losses and sell "as is", but I'll lose my shirt. With everything working, I'm thinking I'm still not upside down on this... yet.

On the other hand, like you mentioned, I'm thinking I'll finish it up and sell it so that I can look for a 98-99 Speedster. The additional length should make it ride a bit better, and the twin engines will hopefully give it more get-up-and go, while letting me get back to the dock under power when either engine is having issues.

My first boat was a '71 Trojan Tricabin... a 36 foot monster with a THICK fiberglass hull and a wooden decks, interior, and upper structure. I loved having the boat, but was always afraid it would break. A weekend at the lake for me meant at least 8 hours of working on the boat, and maybe a couple hours of playing with the family. I kept it about a year before selling it and moving to a more modern ('86) boat with fiberglass hull and decks, and better interior wiring. Been THRILLED with that decision to upgrade... which gives me hope on this front as well.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Dude!?!
With this boat I've been towed in at least 6 times so far this season. Every time we go out I hold my breath waiting for it to break.

"With this chick-magnet boat designed for young single men with a desire to meet women and looking for the perfect excuse. Every time I go out, I get towed back by a boatload of beauties and this boat has gotten me six dates already this season."

There, I fixed that for you.

 

[Guest_User]

I've seen it a bunch of times, where I guy buys a +15 year old seadoo at a premium price... and within a year or so... it needs EVERYTHING.


But, I'm not a brand loyal guy... and I would probably go look at a Yamaha. I think the base model 19' boat is under $20k.



Anyway... I have no problems trusting old boats... once I work my magic on them.

Well, I trusted a friend and got burnt, that`s why it was a premium price. Aero 303 doesnt keep the boat running.
I have hundreds of hours into ours and trust it sort of, or as well as can be expected.

I would have def bought an outboard or a yamaha jet boat knowing what I know now.



OK, Dan, only you know what you can do and feel comfortable with. Shit happens and stuff breaks, no matter how well we care for our boats... I liked the fact that their are 2 engines, easily replace able, but also double the cost.
I also come from an automotive background and have done the mechanicals on many resto projects and vehicles. So I know where your coming from.

evaluate the situation, at best bring the other engine up to par and keep the boat. replacing parts becomes very easy once you done it a million times... just ask RJ!:facepalm: (only kidding buddy, some humor!:lols

my only concern is these dam MPEM`s, once they are shot, now it becomes a headache and a major issue pluis a whole lotta dough $$$...

Good luck Buddy!:cheers:

 

[rjcress]

"With this chick-magnet boat designed for young single men with a desire to meet women and looking for the perfect excuse. Every time I go out, I get towed back by a boatload of beauties and this boat has gotten me six dates already this season."

There, I fixed that for you.

That would definitely fix something for me... ie. I wouldn't have a wife to worry about any longer.

 

[howie099]

I do have to say pre-mixing is much safer on the mind than an injection system. You just burn up so much oil with 2 engines so I can't do the switch at the moment since my injection is working on my 98 Sportster 1800. That oil pump braking must of been hit or something. After you get the other engine swapped I am sure you will have much better luck on the water. My 98 hasn't failed me on the water yet.

I kind of do like the 717 and 657 engines since I don't have power valves/rave junk to worry about. They seem to have less issues probably becuase the old owners never took care or them.

You have almost to much invested now to give up on the boat. I do have to tell ya you ususally come ahead parting them out than selling them whole. I bought a non running polaris SL780 and made over $1000 parting it out. I just cut up the hull and threw it in the garbage when I couldn't sell no more. It is sad the parts are worth more than whole, but that's how a fund my seadoo's :thumbsup:

 

[dbracela]

Q

Dude!?! Are you the voice in my head?
I swear, your rant matches pretty closely to my thoughts and feelings about my '96 Challenger.
Not my first boat, but I also have gone through and replaced, rebuilt, or at least cleaned, inspected and reinstalled most parts on my boat. In my prior 28-ish years of boating I can only recall being in a power boat that had to be towed back to the dock... um.... actually, I can't remember ever being towed. We've towed a few people, but I had never been on the other end of the tow rope.
With this boat I've been towed in at least 6 times so far this season. Every time we go out I hold my breath waiting for it to break.

I keep telling myself that all the hours of hard work will pay off and I'll have a good, reliable boat... but so far, it keeps crapping on me.
When the engine quite the most recent time and I resigned myself to crate it up and send it back to the engine shop for the 4th time since January, I swore that I will put a for sale sign on it as soon as it is "right"... but therein lies the problem. If I honestly believe it is right, then WTF would I want to sell it. This is the catch 22 of being an honest seller. I guess the other option is to cut my losses and sell "as is", but I'll lose my shirt. With everything working, I'm thinking I'm still not upside down on this... yet.

On the other hand, like you mentioned, I'm thinking I'll finish it up and sell it so that I can look for a 98-99 Speedster. The additional length should make it ride a bit better, and the twin engines will hopefully give it more get-up-and go, while letting me get back to the dock under power when either engine is having issues.

My first boat was a '71 Trojan Tricabin... a 36 foot monster with a THICK fiberglass hull and a wooden decks, interior, and upper structure. I loved having the boat, but was always afraid it would break. A weekend at the lake for me meant at least 8 hours of working on the boat, and maybe a couple hours of playing with the family. I kept it about a year before selling it and moving to a more modern ('86) boat with fiberglass hull and decks, and better interior wiring. Been THRILLED with that decision to upgrade... which gives me hope on this front as well.

I've read your rebuild thread, felt horrible for you. I think some machines are just cursed. If I keep mine, I'm changing it's name to the Reverse Christine (Stephen king).

I read what you said about not trusting the boat, and last time out I thought "yup, I get it." But you're also right in saying why sell it once you've made it perfect, or at least reliable.

 

[dbracela]

"With this chick-magnet boat designed for young single men with a desire to meet women and looking for the perfect excuse. Every time I go out, I get towed back by a boatload of beauties and this boat has gotten me six dates already this season."

There, I fixed that for you.

Are you saying these boats are sexy enough to make hot chicks ignore my white gut and receding hairline? I'll count that as a pro.

 

[dbracela]

Well, I trusted a friend and got burnt, that`s why it was a premium price. Aero 303 doesnt keep the boat running.
I have hundreds of hours into ours and trust it sort of, or as well as can be expected.

I would have def bought an outboard or a yamaha jet boat knowing what I know now.





OK, Dan, only you know what you can do and feel comfortable with. Shit happens and stuff breaks, no matter how well we care for our boats... I liked the fact that their are 2 engines, easily replace able, but also double the cost.
I also come from an automotive background and have done the mechanicals on many resto projects and vehicles. So I know where your coming from.

evaluate the situation, at best bring the other engine up to par and keep the boat. replacing parts becomes very easy once you done it a million times... just ask RJ!:facepalm: (only kidding buddy, some humor!:lols

my only concern is these dam MPEM`s, once they are shot, now it becomes a headache and a major issue pluis a whole lotta dough $$$...

Good luck Buddy!:cheers:

Funny, I was thinking about the MPEM last night, not sure why. I got screwed by a "friend" too. But I wonder if maybe he didn't know all that was wrong with it. He did lie about previous engine work, but I don't think he could have foreseen the rest. Also, I don't have the same "magic" with this thing that you, doc, lou, and the rest do. My mojo dried up. working on old cars is so much easier, even with a thousand stuck bolts and buckets of rust, because THERE'S ROOM TO WORK! I felt better about the boat today after reading people's responses, then I get home from a 14 hour shift and find a fresh puddle of oil under the boat drain. Of course as soon as I touch the cover to start investigating, down comes the rain. At least it'll clean the driveway a bit.

 

[dbracela]

I do have to say pre-mixing is much safer on the mind than an injection system. You just burn up so much oil with 2 engines so I can't do the switch at the moment since my injection is working on my 98 Sportster 1800. That oil pump braking must of been hit or something. After you get the other engine swapped I am sure you will have much better luck on the water. My 98 hasn't failed me on the water yet.

I kind of do like the 717 and 657 engines since I don't have power valves/rave junk to worry about. They seem to have less issues probably becuase the old owners never took care or them.

You have almost to much invested now to give up on the boat. :thumbsup:

I had decided to stay with the injection system. The fresh oil puddle I just found may have just changed my mind.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Yeah, but you use so much less oil when the injection system is working correctly, absent finding $50 of oil lying in your bilge one morning of course. I keep my tank on the low side, about 1/2 full or less, never fill it over the sensor bung which is only about 1/2 way up for some reason and has "I'm gonna leak" written all over it.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

So id you were to convert a twin-screw seadoo boat over to single battery, and were to jump start it, could you blow both MPEM's simultaneously? That would be fun, eh?

I guess in that case all you'd have to do is replace the surge depressor diode but man, some of these MPEM failures are more unusual than that, anything from not reading the DESS to not pulling in the starter solenoid and who knows what other crazy things.

The 951carb MPEM even has the rectifier/regulator built into it for some crazy reason, not sure what they were thinking on that one.

 

[dbracela]

Yeah, but you use so much less oil when the injection system is working correctly, absent finding $50 of oil lying in your bilge one morning of course. I keep my tank on the low side, about 1/2 full or less, never fill it over the sensor bung which is only about 1/2 way up for some reason and has "I'm gonna leak" written all over it.

Advice taken. And I'll be keeping the oil injection, that POS hasn't beat me yet. I'm actually hoping I just didn't rinse the bilge out as well as I thought I had. I walked every oil line and fitting with a white rag over and over again last night for about an hour and never found a drop. There's a massive storm rolling through right now, and my cover leaks (brand new btw) so that should rinse the rest out and I'll check it again tomorrow.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

I'm kind of wondering on that broken pump you found, if that has an o-ring or a gasket on it. I was thinking for a second if it was an o-ring someone might have put one too thick in there.

Next time the boat gets trailered for pump servicing I'm going to wash the bilge out with hot water from the water heater. It's still got salt inside it too, from the previous owner, so I'll try washing all that out as well before it works it's way into the harness connectors, etc.

Going to be looking for a set of vinyl skin spares for the seats too, although they're still pretty decent probably will need them eventually.

 

[dbracela]

Actually you're right. There was an o ring in it and it was twice as thick as the one I pulled from the other engine when I broke the bleed screw. And thinking back to last year, I remember goin through the boat looking for loose bolts (lost a pump cause the cone bolts shook loose) and I remember giving that oil pump a tightening. So, I bet I broke it then, and it just kinda held together till now. Good thing I didn't cause that engine to crap out too (tests 150 psi on both cylinders). Oops.

I'd like to see how your seats turn out if you do them. I have to do the pad around the sun deck one of these days.

 

[racerxxx]

I've read this post numerous times all day and have had something typed at least 5 times and don't know quite what to say.

Here's my take on it.

Don't buy stuff from friends--EVER if you can help it. You don't want to low ball them because YOU will feel bad, so you pay top dollar so they are not insulted. YOU get pissed when it goes sour and can't stand that you got hosed.(not directed at you Andy--just in general)

Buying used EXPECT THE WORST and be happy if you come out on top.

Don't keep track of hours(Sorry Andy). It's taking a "hobby" and turning it into a "job". Job stands for work, work is the worst 4 letter word you can say while pursuing your hobby. If it's you're own stuff your working on you can't bill yourself for the labor, and the next guy won't give a rats azz how many hours you put into it. He's looking at the bottom line.

Take your time, do a little bit each day. Slow and easy wins the race. I'd rather miss a weekend on the water then have to get towed in. Keep it tidy and set a daily goal. Walk away when frustrated.

No matter whose flavor you own, eventually it will break. Jet boat, I/O, Outboard something is gonna fail or at least need maintenance. You can have a 16 year old jet boat the needs two engines or an MPEM, pumps. Or you can have a 16 year old boat that needs a powerhead (more money than 2 pwc engines), or a lower unit. Your Chevy or Ford powered I/O will eventually need exhaust manifolds and risers (not cheap), water pump etc... Boats are money pits plain and simple. My buddy just dropped two brand new 502's in his 1990 something Baja, $8G's a pop in the last 3 years. Bigger the boat, bigger the problems and bigger the cost. He uses it 2 maybe 3 times a year, and it sits in a garage the rest of the time.

These are toys, and ones that see some of the worst environments and don't always get the proper care. It's tough when you get upside down on a project--it blows, I get it. I like fixing/building toys like sleds, boats, skis, quads, trikes and cars(my hobbies). I try and set a realistic budget, but I'm also used to surpassing the budget. Money is not easy to come by, I'm in the same boat. Thankfully my wife doesn't question me on "Are you going to get out of it what you have into it." She knows this is my hobby and passion and that the family is going to enjoy them when I'm finished--the true value of what's spent. I do a little here and a little there but make the project solid. At the end of the project if I go over budget I don't let it get to me, I'm proud of what I built and love what I have. Almost what ever you build you won't get your cash back out of it, something that takes getting used to.

Dbrac, once you get a good season under your belt I'm sure the wife will turn around. I had about 3 seasons of port engine failures (air leak) with my Speedster. I'm the original owner, so whether it's new or used it's going to eat your cash and leave you broken down until you get it sorted out. I have had the last 5 seasons of problem free fun. This winter I think I'm tearing the engines from the Speedster and going through the carbs, putting oil injection back on, new fuel pumps and cleaning things up. It sounds like your close to get it all sorted out. Stick with it and keep positive!