I took the carbs out and cleaned them up. Replaced fuel lines. Before installing them back on I adjusted the throttle cable because I notice that the butterfly's were only opening 3/4 when I was actually at full throttle on handle. After this now it bogs really bad at low speeds and low rpms. If I play with the throttle I can get it to go To 6k or 7k rpms. And 60 mph for couple of seconds and then falls on its face. My question is if I adjusted the throttle cable do I need to adjust the Acc pump screw and oil pump cable?
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Throttle cable
- Thread starter Silenpro
- Start date
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Sportster-2001-951C-Stock
Well-Known Member
"I adjusted the throttle cable because I notice that the butterfly's were only opening 3/4 when I was actually at full throttle on handle. After this now it bogs really bad"
I'm gonna guess it was bogging before you adjusted the throttle cable.
"if I adjusted the throttle cable do I need to adjust the Acc pump screw and oil pump cable? "
Yes, you should check and adjust these as necessary if the throttle cable has been adjusted. I'm thinking this is an 951 motor but this should hold true for the all of them. Actually, check and adjust these as necessary prior to and following idle adjustment, IMO. The linkage should not be pushing on the accelerator pump plunger, there should be a tiny perceptible gap between the accelerator pump plunger and the lever arm which actuates the accelerator pump plunger. This way, the accelerator pump plunger can be in the at-rest position when the throttle is closed, and as the throttle is opened, the accelerator pump diaphragm will be able to give a full shot of fuel instead of a partial shot.
The oil pump cable pulls the oil pump valve open as the throttle is increased, to deliver more oil. The reason is b/c the oil:fuel mixture must be increased in proportion to the amount of power being developed by the engine. If adjusted properly, at idle speed the fuel
il mixture will be around 100:1, and at full power this ratio drops to 50:1 or below, depending on the requirements of your particular engine package.
So, to be certain the engine is not starved of oil throughout some portion of the throttle travel and to maintain EPA emissions compliance, adjust the oil pump cable exactly as described in the service procedure.
"After this now it bogs really bad at low speeds and low rpms. If I play with the throttle I can get it to go To 6k or 7k rpms. And 60 mph for couple of seconds and then falls on its face."
This sounds to me like you are describing an excessive lean condition at all throttle positions, not just low speeds. Not sure if I'm reading this correctly but this problem needs to be addressed quickly before engine damage occurs. Don't just ride it hoping the problem goes away, you could be buying a remanufactured engine if you do.
I would suggest you go back and check your work, make sure there are no air leaks in the fuel lines and that they are installed correctly. One problem that seems to occur frequently, is the water separator cup develops an air leak and air enters the fuel line as the fuel pump draws fuel from the fuel tank through the water separator.
I suggest as a first step, you should pressure-test the fuel lines all the way from the fuel pump to the tank by taking both ends lose, plugging one end, and pressurizing from the other end to around 3 PSI. This should reveal any leaks where air can be drawn in as the fuel pump tries to pump fuel from the fuel tank.
Another issue that often occurs, is the fuel selector valve sometimes gets plugged up with debris. Check fuel system for good flow, and replace the selector valve if necessary. Sometimes by placing this valve in the reserve position, obstructions can be diagnosed.
Among other items you might also look for are water in your fuel, insufficient fuel in the fuel tank, and a poorly installed carburetor to intake manifold gasket.
Troubleshooting is a process of elimination.
I'm gonna guess it was bogging before you adjusted the throttle cable.
"if I adjusted the throttle cable do I need to adjust the Acc pump screw and oil pump cable? "
Yes, you should check and adjust these as necessary if the throttle cable has been adjusted. I'm thinking this is an 951 motor but this should hold true for the all of them. Actually, check and adjust these as necessary prior to and following idle adjustment, IMO. The linkage should not be pushing on the accelerator pump plunger, there should be a tiny perceptible gap between the accelerator pump plunger and the lever arm which actuates the accelerator pump plunger. This way, the accelerator pump plunger can be in the at-rest position when the throttle is closed, and as the throttle is opened, the accelerator pump diaphragm will be able to give a full shot of fuel instead of a partial shot.
The oil pump cable pulls the oil pump valve open as the throttle is increased, to deliver more oil. The reason is b/c the oil:fuel mixture must be increased in proportion to the amount of power being developed by the engine. If adjusted properly, at idle speed the fuel
il mixture will be around 100:1, and at full power this ratio drops to 50:1 or below, depending on the requirements of your particular engine package.So, to be certain the engine is not starved of oil throughout some portion of the throttle travel and to maintain EPA emissions compliance, adjust the oil pump cable exactly as described in the service procedure.
"After this now it bogs really bad at low speeds and low rpms. If I play with the throttle I can get it to go To 6k or 7k rpms. And 60 mph for couple of seconds and then falls on its face."
This sounds to me like you are describing an excessive lean condition at all throttle positions, not just low speeds. Not sure if I'm reading this correctly but this problem needs to be addressed quickly before engine damage occurs. Don't just ride it hoping the problem goes away, you could be buying a remanufactured engine if you do.
I would suggest you go back and check your work, make sure there are no air leaks in the fuel lines and that they are installed correctly. One problem that seems to occur frequently, is the water separator cup develops an air leak and air enters the fuel line as the fuel pump draws fuel from the fuel tank through the water separator.
I suggest as a first step, you should pressure-test the fuel lines all the way from the fuel pump to the tank by taking both ends lose, plugging one end, and pressurizing from the other end to around 3 PSI. This should reveal any leaks where air can be drawn in as the fuel pump tries to pump fuel from the fuel tank.
Another issue that often occurs, is the fuel selector valve sometimes gets plugged up with debris. Check fuel system for good flow, and replace the selector valve if necessary. Sometimes by placing this valve in the reserve position, obstructions can be diagnosed.
Among other items you might also look for are water in your fuel, insufficient fuel in the fuel tank, and a poorly installed carburetor to intake manifold gasket.
Troubleshooting is a process of elimination.
I replaced the fuel selector also with a new oem one. I also replaced the water seperator filter and seal. That was aftermarket. I will check on the Acc pump contact as you said. All lines are hooked up in the correct order. Bottom main feed, center one pulse and top fuel return. And yes it's a 951. I took the carbs off again last night and checked The gaskets where the carbs mount up. It looked ok. I starter the ski after on my trailer and it's still bogging down low and it's not even on water. Meaning no load. I am going to go threw everything again. It's deff something I did. Just have to figure it out. I wil look at the Acc pump contact. Really apreciate your help.
And the reason for adjusting the cable, the ski would run fine with a full tank but once it got to half it would run fine and all of a sudden stall like if the off button was pressed. It would start right back up everytine. So went home and started looking around. Notice my fuel baffle was loose to the gas stank. I figure that was the issue. But I decided to change lines, clean carbs, replace the selector switch and water seperator filter. To remove the carbs I took the throttle cable off by unscrewing it. I also checked before the tear down if the carb butterflies were opening full and they were not. I was only at 3/4. That's when I started adjusting them.
QUOTE=Sportster-2001-951C-Stock;343048]"I adjusted the throttle cable because I notice that the butterfly's were only opening 3/4 when I was actually at full throttle on handle. After this now it bogs really bad"
I'm gonna guess it was bogging before you adjusted the throttle cable.
"if I adjusted the throttle cable do I need to adjust the Acc pump screw and oil pump cable? "
Yes, you should check and adjust these as necessary if the throttle cable has been adjusted. I'm thinking this is an 951 motor but this should hold true for the all of them. Actually, check and adjust these as necessary prior to and following idle adjustment, IMO. The linkage should not be pushing on the accelerator pump plunger, there should be a tiny perceptible gap between the accelerator pump plunger and the lever arm which actuates the accelerator pump plunger. This way, the accelerator pump plunger can be in the at-rest position when the throttle is closed, and as the throttle is opened, the accelerator pump diaphragm will be able to give a full shot of fuel instead of a partial shot.
The oil pump cable pulls the oil pump valve open as the throttle is increased, to deliver more oil. The reason is b/c the oil:fuel mixture must be increased in proportion to the amount of power being developed by the engine. If adjusted properly, at idle speed the fuelil mixture will be around 100:1, and at full power this ratio drops to 50:1 or below, depending on the requirements of your particular engine package.
So, to be certain the engine is not starved of oil throughout some portion of the throttle travel and to maintain EPA emissions compliance, adjust the oil pump cable exactly as described in the service procedure.
"After this now it bogs really bad at low speeds and low rpms. If I play with the throttle I can get it to go To 6k or 7k rpms. And 60 mph for couple of seconds and then falls on its face."
This sounds to me like you are describing an excessive lean condition at all throttle positions, not just low speeds. Not sure if I'm reading this correctly but this problem needs to be addressed quickly before engine damage occurs. Don't just ride it hoping the problem goes away, you could be buying a remanufactured engine if you do.
I would suggest you go back and check your work, make sure there are no air leaks in the fuel lines and that they are installed correctly. One problem that seems to occur frequently, is the water separator cup develops an air leak and air enters the fuel line as the fuel pump draws fuel from the fuel tank through the water separator.
I suggest as a first step, you should pressure-test the fuel lines all the way from the fuel pump to the tank by taking both ends lose, plugging one end, and pressurizing from the other end to around 3 PSI. This should reveal any leaks where air can be drawn in as the fuel pump tries to pump fuel from the fuel tank.
Another issue that often occurs, is the fuel selector valve sometimes gets plugged up with debris. Check fuel system for good flow, and replace the selector valve if necessary. Sometimes by placing this valve in the reserve position, obstructions can be diagnosed.
Among other items you might also look for are water in your fuel, insufficient fuel in the fuel tank, and a poorly installed carburetor to intake manifold gasket.
Troubleshooting is a process of elimination.[/QUOTE]
And the reason for adjusting the cable, the ski would run fine with a full tank but once it got to half it would run fine and all of a sudden stall like if the off button was pressed. It would start right back up everytine. So went home and started looking around. Notice my fuel baffle was loose to the gas stank. I figure that was the issue. But I decided to change lines, clean carbs, replace the selector switch and water seperator filter. To remove the carbs I took the throttle cable off by unscrewing it. I also checked before the tear down if the carb butterflies were opening full and they were not. I was only at 3/4. That's when I started adjusting them.
QUOTE=Sportster-2001-951C-Stock;343048]"I adjusted the throttle cable because I notice that the butterfly's were only opening 3/4 when I was actually at full throttle on handle. After this now it bogs really bad"
I'm gonna guess it was bogging before you adjusted the throttle cable.
"if I adjusted the throttle cable do I need to adjust the Acc pump screw and oil pump cable? "
Yes, you should check and adjust these as necessary if the throttle cable has been adjusted. I'm thinking this is an 951 motor but this should hold true for the all of them. Actually, check and adjust these as necessary prior to and following idle adjustment, IMO. The linkage should not be pushing on the accelerator pump plunger, there should be a tiny perceptible gap between the accelerator pump plunger and the lever arm which actuates the accelerator pump plunger. This way, the accelerator pump plunger can be in the at-rest position when the throttle is closed, and as the throttle is opened, the accelerator pump diaphragm will be able to give a full shot of fuel instead of a partial shot.
The oil pump cable pulls the oil pump valve open as the throttle is increased, to deliver more oil. The reason is b/c the oil:fuel mixture must be increased in proportion to the amount of power being developed by the engine. If adjusted properly, at idle speed the fuel
il mixture will be around 100:1, and at full power this ratio drops to 50:1 or below, depending on the requirements of your particular engine package.So, to be certain the engine is not starved of oil throughout some portion of the throttle travel and to maintain EPA emissions compliance, adjust the oil pump cable exactly as described in the service procedure.
"After this now it bogs really bad at low speeds and low rpms. If I play with the throttle I can get it to go To 6k or 7k rpms. And 60 mph for couple of seconds and then falls on its face."
This sounds to me like you are describing an excessive lean condition at all throttle positions, not just low speeds. Not sure if I'm reading this correctly but this problem needs to be addressed quickly before engine damage occurs. Don't just ride it hoping the problem goes away, you could be buying a remanufactured engine if you do.
I would suggest you go back and check your work, make sure there are no air leaks in the fuel lines and that they are installed correctly. One problem that seems to occur frequently, is the water separator cup develops an air leak and air enters the fuel line as the fuel pump draws fuel from the fuel tank through the water separator.
I suggest as a first step, you should pressure-test the fuel lines all the way from the fuel pump to the tank by taking both ends lose, plugging one end, and pressurizing from the other end to around 3 PSI. This should reveal any leaks where air can be drawn in as the fuel pump tries to pump fuel from the fuel tank.
Another issue that often occurs, is the fuel selector valve sometimes gets plugged up with debris. Check fuel system for good flow, and replace the selector valve if necessary. Sometimes by placing this valve in the reserve position, obstructions can be diagnosed.
Among other items you might also look for are water in your fuel, insufficient fuel in the fuel tank, and a poorly installed carburetor to intake manifold gasket.
Troubleshooting is a process of elimination.[/QUOTE]
Last edited by a moderator:
- BiRkS_
Active Member
Did you adjust the mixture screws while the carb was apart? Go buy a cheap inline 5/16'' fuel filter and put it where the water separator is. (I dont recommend bypassing it as then you have no filter!)
It sounds like your pop off could be too high, or the lever is way out of adjustment. If you are lean throughout the throttle range, you either have poor fuel flow, weak fuel pump, or high pop off/bad metering diaphram. Did you replace the gaskets in the carb when you had it apart? They must be OEM/Mikuni carb kits.
It sounds like your pop off could be too high, or the lever is way out of adjustment. If you are lean throughout the throttle range, you either have poor fuel flow, weak fuel pump, or high pop off/bad metering diaphram. Did you replace the gaskets in the carb when you had it apart? They must be OEM/Mikuni carb kits.
Sportster-2001-951C-Stock
Well-Known Member
"I took the carbs off again last night and checked The gaskets where the carbs mount up."
After bolting the carbs on, I always open the throttle plates fully and look down through the bore near the mounting flange to confirm no gasket material is hanging into the bore area. This helps me to confirm if the gasket slipped. I haven't had to put grease on the gasket yet, but I would put a bit on it to hold it in place on the manifold, if I were experiencing problems with it slipping off. I think some of the replacements have an adhesive on them to hold them in place while positioning the carburetor assembly.
Yep, go back and check your work, sounds like it's not getting fuel. A lean condition can encourage the engine to run away on the trailer, so make sure your choke is working correctly so you can stop it before it melts down if it does run away.
I can't count how many times I've read of someone pullling their hair out yanking everything apart looking for the problem just to discover they have an inward air leak into the fuel line somewhere. Usually at the water separator cup.
How about the fuel pump mounted to the front carb, did you inspect the two round valves carefully during teardown? Those can warp or crack then no longer seal in one direction only. Also make sure it's assembled correctly, the order of gasket, mylar diaphragm, gasket, then o-ring is important and, sometimes confusing. Your pulse line is connected to the fuel pump and it's not cracked, collapsed, or kinked? You can connect a piece of tubing to the pulse port and operate the fuel pump with your mouth, there should not be any gasoline on the pulse port if it's assembled correctly but be careful not to swallow gasoline if there's some in there b/c it's poisonous and makes your breath offensive to others. I spit it out when that happens, and rinse my mouth with plenty of water.
Keep looking, you'll find the problem, it could be right in front of your eyes. Review everything you did and confirm gaskets, levers arms, and all pieces/parts are assembled in the correct order as per the exploded drawings. You wouldn't get much fuel into the carbs if the inlet needle levers are installed incorrectly or bent in the wrong position.
Good luck!
After bolting the carbs on, I always open the throttle plates fully and look down through the bore near the mounting flange to confirm no gasket material is hanging into the bore area. This helps me to confirm if the gasket slipped. I haven't had to put grease on the gasket yet, but I would put a bit on it to hold it in place on the manifold, if I were experiencing problems with it slipping off. I think some of the replacements have an adhesive on them to hold them in place while positioning the carburetor assembly.
Yep, go back and check your work, sounds like it's not getting fuel. A lean condition can encourage the engine to run away on the trailer, so make sure your choke is working correctly so you can stop it before it melts down if it does run away.
I can't count how many times I've read of someone pullling their hair out yanking everything apart looking for the problem just to discover they have an inward air leak into the fuel line somewhere. Usually at the water separator cup.
How about the fuel pump mounted to the front carb, did you inspect the two round valves carefully during teardown? Those can warp or crack then no longer seal in one direction only. Also make sure it's assembled correctly, the order of gasket, mylar diaphragm, gasket, then o-ring is important and, sometimes confusing. Your pulse line is connected to the fuel pump and it's not cracked, collapsed, or kinked? You can connect a piece of tubing to the pulse port and operate the fuel pump with your mouth, there should not be any gasoline on the pulse port if it's assembled correctly but be careful not to swallow gasoline if there's some in there b/c it's poisonous and makes your breath offensive to others. I spit it out when that happens, and rinse my mouth with plenty of water.
Keep looking, you'll find the problem, it could be right in front of your eyes. Review everything you did and confirm gaskets, levers arms, and all pieces/parts are assembled in the correct order as per the exploded drawings. You wouldn't get much fuel into the carbs if the inlet needle levers are installed incorrectly or bent in the wrong position.
Good luck!
That's crazy that you mention the runaway engine on the trailer. That's excatly what happend before. I pulled the choke and shit it down. So I'm running lean then. It felt good on the trailer. (No laod). And then all of a sudden if I held it a 1/4 throttle it starts to runaway.
Sportster-2001-951C-Stock
Well-Known Member
Yes, the 951 carb engine is a remarkable highly tuned performance 2-stroke engine, and by nature of the beast it's prone to runaway under no-load conditions even when everything is set properly. A Donkey on the edge, you might say. The 951 carb engine will be even more prone to runaway if there are air leaks, or for some reason the air:fuel mixture was tipped to the lean side by a fuel system malfunction.
Make sure your choke system is working correctly, so you can stop a runaway if it does occur. I can just imagine someone getting into a hurry and forgoing connecting the choke linkage until after firing up, which could lead to a meltdown. The other method to stop a runaway is by opening the throttle fully, but I much prefer using the choke instead.
Make sure your choke system is working correctly, so you can stop a runaway if it does occur. I can just imagine someone getting into a hurry and forgoing connecting the choke linkage until after firing up, which could lead to a meltdown. The other method to stop a runaway is by opening the throttle fully, but I much prefer using the choke instead.
Sportster-2001-951C-Stock
Well-Known Member
"the ski would run fine with a full tank but once it got to half it would run fine and all of a sudden stall like if the off button was pressed."
I overlooked this from reading through previously.
That could be the problem, the fuel baffle may have a crack in the feed tube going to the bottom of the tank. I'd be especially considering this possibility if switching to reserve eliminates the problems.
You might have to remove the baffle and inspect it carefully to make sure it's in good condition, if it has a crack in it your fuel pump could be sucking air into the fuel lines instead of fuel. Filling the tank completely would be another method to consider, if the fuel starvation symptoms disappear then that points you towards the fuel baffle.
I overlooked this from reading through previously.
That could be the problem, the fuel baffle may have a crack in the feed tube going to the bottom of the tank. I'd be especially considering this possibility if switching to reserve eliminates the problems.
You might have to remove the baffle and inspect it carefully to make sure it's in good condition, if it has a crack in it your fuel pump could be sucking air into the fuel lines instead of fuel. Filling the tank completely would be another method to consider, if the fuel starvation symptoms disappear then that points you towards the fuel baffle.
It could be the baffle. I just installed this baffle that I bought on eBay due to my fuel gague not working. I tried fixing my stock unit but in the process of opening the baffle I broke a resistor. So I bought this one from eBay. It might be bad, cracked on some point on the inside like u mention. I did remove the rear rave valve last night to check the diaphragm. It look good on the top but I tried to pull it up but did not want to force it out. I put it back together how it was.
I will also recheck the fuel water separator wich I also replaced. I checked it before but I will check it again. I ordered the oem carb rebuild kit. The only piece wich I didn't like how it looked was the black gasket/diaphragm inside the carb. Maybe that's another issue I just added. Thanks for taking your time trying to help me out. Really apreciate your help.
I will also recheck the fuel water separator wich I also replaced. I checked it before but I will check it again. I ordered the oem carb rebuild kit. The only piece wich I didn't like how it looked was the black gasket/diaphragm inside the carb. Maybe that's another issue I just added. Thanks for taking your time trying to help me out. Really apreciate your help.
Sportster-2001-951C-Stock
Well-Known Member
"I did remove the rear rave valve last night to check the diaphragm. It look good on the top but I tried to pull it up but did not want to force it out."
The rave bellows should move up and down freely, not stick in the down position, and you SHOULD be able to remove the two housing screws and easily remove the assembly. The reality is, it usually takes a very strong tug to remove the assembly due to the goo that builds up. My solution has been to pour some 2-stroke oil down onto the sliding blade and let it soak in overnight(or a couple days).
So far, this has dissolved (loosened) the goo enough for me to pull the blade and entire assembly off in one piece. Be careful not to hydrolock the cylinders by pouring oil down there, remove the plugs and crank it over to push excess oil out before starting up.
I like to clean the rave blades once each season, I think that's the recommendation, every so many engine hours.
Was your ebay baffle repaired at some point? It's easy to nick the internal draw tubes and put holes in them when you cut the fuse access hole.
The rave bellows should move up and down freely, not stick in the down position, and you SHOULD be able to remove the two housing screws and easily remove the assembly. The reality is, it usually takes a very strong tug to remove the assembly due to the goo that builds up. My solution has been to pour some 2-stroke oil down onto the sliding blade and let it soak in overnight(or a couple days).
So far, this has dissolved (loosened) the goo enough for me to pull the blade and entire assembly off in one piece. Be careful not to hydrolock the cylinders by pouring oil down there, remove the plugs and crank it over to push excess oil out before starting up.
I like to clean the rave blades once each season, I think that's the recommendation, every so many engine hours.
Was your ebay baffle repaired at some point? It's easy to nick the internal draw tubes and put holes in them when you cut the fuse access hole.
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Sportster-2001-951C-Stock
Well-Known Member
Yeah, on those throttle cables it pays off to just replace them rather than try lubing them but I can never resist trying to work some graphite down the tube. Maybe yours had a kink from the factory or something, I'm imagining the free-stock screw cart rolling down the production isle runs over the end of the cable lying on the floor and crushed it a little.
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