The game has changed...meet the new spark!

[jammin777]

the spark seems like a great entry level ski but a little slow for my taste. shouldn't be long before they offer a mid level version 2 seater spark with a higher power engine equivalent to say a 787 or 951 such as the 155 hp 4 tec ( excellent power to weight ratio) would be nice even if it would cost say around 6500. ideally to be able to peak at 60 mph and get there quick! now that would spark my interest!:lols:
the upside is quite possible to drive the old 2 strokes down in price, the down side, probably expensive engine replacement when they wear out. lastly, possibly boost the sales of the candoo pro for us shade tree mechanics.
very cool how the hull splits in half for easy access not to mention the light weight.

 

[SabrToothSqrl]

I think it's a great start, now just pack 150 HP into that same hull or similar lol.

 

[Dr Honda]

Hey guys...

Have you looked over the specs yet? (I'll post the spec sheet in the new forum) This thing is actually lighter than the old X4's. ALSO... the 60 hp and 90 hp versions are the same engine, and it's all in the electronics. We have also been told that the Red-line is around 8K RPM's... but it's good to 9K. SO... a simple massaging may open that up to the same 110 hp that the old 800 had.


Also... keep in mind, that the small hulls never handled well at high speed. It's hard to hold on at full speed on my XP800. (it's twitchy)

 

[Crofoot50]

Looks like I will be buying one. Sell a couple x4s right in spring before too many people find out about these. The market for the 2 strokes is going to die quick. Send ses or sbt $1000 for a rebuild or put a down payment on one of these? No brainer for $5000. The rental market will be back since people can afford to buy these.

I completely agree they really knocked it out of the park on this one. Polaris did a similar deal a few years ago where they had a brand-new snowmobile for $6000 (entry-level 600cc) this is a situation where people can get into the sport cheap, plus the accessories with all the built-in mooring lines and everything else that you can get really neat, very innovative. I would custom wrap a Spark, make it look Badass

 

[SabrToothSqrl]

Starts at 5k

add that 90 HP, add that bolt on 3 seater part (maybe), and add iBS whatever and how much are we talking now?

Doc, I full expect the after market to be all over this thing. Sponsons, grates, plates, intakes/etc.

at 5k, that leaves me a full 2k budget to go to town on it lol.

 

[Spimothy Leary]

Agree with all the opinions.
Would love to see it offer more power, but I'll accept this as a GREAT start, and an EXCELLENT idea !
Myself I can't see getting into a 50mph 4 stroke, I had enough trouble keeping up with ride groups back when I had a 52mph Ski, and now with everybody being capable of 65ish, I had issues keeping up with my xp @ 58.
However, not everybody thinks the same way I do, so I think a LOT of people will be very interested in this model, and although its not a perfect fit for me, I really hope the idea takes off, if it drives up sales in this area and down on the bigger tanks, then we'll most likely see two things happening.
1) SD increasing the power/top end
2) Competitors offering a similar option due to lost sales.

Those two things would be fantastic for the industry, and the ride community.

 

[suke]

Hey guys...

Have you looked over the specs yet? (I'll post the spec sheet in the new forum) This think is actually lighter than the old X4's. ALSO... the 60 hp and 90 hp versions are the same engine, and it's all in the electronics. We have also been told that the Red-line is around 8K RPM's... but it's good to 9K. SO... a simple massaging may open that up to the same 110 hp that the old 800 had.


Also... keep in mind, that the small hulls never handled well at high speed. It's hard to hold on at full speed on my XP800. (it's twitchy)

YUP! I can only go WOT at small intervals on my XP before I feel I'm going to break something or it gets unstable(porposing, etc).

 

[JoeZ]

I moved this thread over to the new 900 Ace section, home for the Sea-Doo Spark. Really cool design, and after riding it for several days I can tell you it's a hell of a lot of fun. Here is another thread with information as well: http://www.seadooforum.com/showthre...ark-X4-Enthusiasts-Rejoice!-The-Spark-is-here

 

[Sea-Doo Tech]

The HP is all in tuning just like the 2013 SE 130 and 155 if you have buds with the mega tech key you can change the settings and increase the HP. I am ready to buy one just to split the Hull.They say it only takes 10 mins to pull the top half off. Wish I was back working at the dealer just so I could PDI one.I am wondering if there going to come out with new tech training in Atlanta?Any florida dealers need a temp watercraft tech? They started using this motor last year in there Ski-Doo's so it has been out and tested in the public for almost 2 years now.

 

[Minnetonka4me]

Yup looks like loaded model is 7199 with the floatie, the HO motor, and IBR. Still crazy cheap IMO.

The speed and HP is going to come with what everyone says...software upgrades. Also if it is as popular as we are speculating Im sure all the aftermarket companies are already designing parts for it.

My thing with this is end users...which most of us here are not. They are going to eat this up vs buying say a $2500 restored XP. Guys that are on this board are do it yourselfers which saves alot $$ dough not paying for labor.

I dont see it completely killing the 90s machines, but they are going to take a huge hit in resale price, and with that the parts market is going to take a dive.

JoeZ we need a real world ride opinion on it!!! That is unless you are obligated to keep your mouth shut.

 

[manolocross]

HOLY F**k!!! I want one!!! I got a beautiful 95 XP FOR SALE!!!

 

[Dr Honda]

Starts at 5k

add that 90 HP, add that bolt on 3 seater part (maybe), and add iBS whatever and how much are we talking now?

I was thinking the same thing. A GTi is about $8300. But, I asked Joe about the priceing... and it's $800 for the 3-seat option, and that comes with the 90 hp engine. So... $5799. Still a few $$$ cheaper.


I like the iBR system... but it's almost wrong on this ski. I don't know what the $$$ will be for it... but I'm sure it wont' be cheap. But the manual reverse would be good. (it's an option)

Doc, I full expect the after market to be all over this thing. Sponsons, grates, plates, intakes/etc.

at 5k, that leaves me a full 2k budget to go to town on it lol.

This is also my thought, and a factor in why I may buy one. I need a new product line in the works, to keep my shop running.

 

[dustindu4]

What I really like about this thing:

1) The way you can open the hull is amazing. Not a single person will dislike that.

2) This ski will be SO POPULAR that it's going to drive down the prices of other used skis. 2004-2010 4-tec resale values are going to take a huge hit, which makes them more affordable for me.

What I don't like is how underpowered it is, but it will be great for the kids and the wimmins

 

[KK40384]

What I really like about this thing:

1) The way you can open the hull is amazing. Not a single person will dislike that.

2) This ski will be SO POPULAR that it's going to drive down the prices of other used skis. 2004-2010 4-tec resale values are going to take a huge hit, which makes them more affordable for me.

What I don't like is how underpowered it is, but it will be great for the kids and the wimmins

I'm hoping that the fact it is underpowered will help keep the value of used 4tecs up a bit. Well not up but at least not hurt it much. I think it will appeal to the first time pwc buyer that doesn't want to spend a lot of money but wants the reliability and warranty of a new ski. The buyer that doesn't want to spend a lot of money for a bigger more powerful ski will still lean towards the used 4tecs. I was planning on selling my 08 soon but now I don't know. I may just keep it if the value drops too much.

 

[Spimothy Leary]

What I really like about this thing:

1) The way you can open the hull is amazing. Not a single person will dislike that.

2) This ski will be SO POPULAR that it's going to drive down the prices of other used skis. 2004-2010 4-tec resale values are going to take a huge hit, which makes them more affordable for me.

What I don't like is how underpowered it is, but it will be great for the kids and the wimmins

I'm hoping that the fact it is underpowered will help keep the value of used 4tecs up a bit. Well not up but at least not hurt it much. I think it will appeal to the first time pwc buyer that doesn't want to spend a lot of money but wants the reliability and warranty of a new ski. The buyer that doesn't want to spend a lot of money for a bigger more powerful ski will still lean towards the used 4tecs. I was planning on selling my 08 soon but now I don't know. I may just keep it if the value drops too much.

I'm of two minds about it, but now that i've had an afternoon to absorb it, and consider the mod'ability potentials, the more I like it. However the mod part is important for many of us, mainly top end IMO, what can be done at at what expense, but even sliding it up to 61ish, for me would be a big difference maker.

With that said it might be too early to claim how dramatic, if at all it will affect the overall market, will it bring new buyers in, will it bring old buyers back, will it make the conversion from 2 stroke more affordable. The number of unit sales will be a big key, obviously, if it fly's off the shelf it will impact the decisions of not only buyers of used ski's but the manufacturer's themselves, as they will adjust, and quickly. We've discussed the idea of a small 4 stroke for long i'm glad somebody actually decided to do it.

The overall market, yes this if nothing else establishes a new baseline, one that hasn't been crossed in a decade, so either way just the pure existence of the spark would have an impact not only on the 2 stroke market, but the used 4 stroke market as well. Time will tell on this but I don't think the parts market suffer's dramatically, if anything they will evolve into the 4stroke parts market, I think the 2 stroke market still has another 4 years before the trend starts to move down and eventually you'll see more supply than demand. I have no research to back this up lol, just thinking out loud.

 

[Coastiejoe]

2) This ski will be SO POPULAR that it's going to drive down the prices of other used skis. 2004-2010 4-tec resale values are going to take a huge hit, which makes them more affordable for me.

I'm thinking the hit won't be too bad. I say this as, my RXT-X for example is NOTHING like the Spark. It is not an entry level skis, has 255 HP engine, is big and heavy ect ect.

Since they do not compare on any level it may not affect the resale to badly.

I agree it will affect it but most for the fact that there will be other cheaper skis available. But if someone is looking for a performance ski they know what they cost.

 

[KayakNFly]

I think it'll actually increase the sales of the larger more powerful 4-strokes in the long run. If it brings more people into the market who have never been on a doo they'll be more people who after riding the spark for a year want to go bigger and faster so they trade them in and get the big 4techs. It's like the car dealers do now. Ford for example: start a lease on an entry level focus, then in two years they up it for a Taurus etc. he then used to $150 a month, then next year say "hey for $220 we'll get you a nice new supercharged seadoo! Much faster!."

 

[JoeZ]

JoeZ we need a real world ride opinion on it!!! That is unless you are obligated to keep your mouth shut.

Had to keep quiet until 8pm yesterday, but now I can say what ever! Most of it is covered here:
http://www.seadooforum.com/showthre...joice!-The-Spark-is-here!&p=367371#post367371

What do you want to know? It's a hell of a lot of fun, light and nimble. It's really easy to throw around. I can do full speed, shift my weight way forward and spin it, which was fun. Or, at WOT you can lean in real hard and it will carve aggressively. We were on a lake so we didn't have any real waves to jump, but the small boat wakes still enabled us to get good air.

One thing that is great is it feels like an X4, but is much, much more stable and drier. It's easy to feel confident on the Spark.

 

[JoeZ]

The Spark may change the market for used 2 strokes, but doubtful it'll have any serious impact on the used 4 stroke market (until some serious mods are available at least). It's nothing like an RXP or RXT....if anything would suffer it'll be the GTI segment (I'd rather have the Spark over a GTI).

As far as used parts are concerned, we'll see. There is a big difference between keeping an old 2 stroke running and buying a brand new machine. Even new machines need parts eventually, so it'll all fall into place. The real place this machine will shine is bringing new riders into the sport. No one is going to replace their RXP with a Spark, but might add a Spark so a friend or family member can ride with them.

 

[Minnetonka4me]

Its the tip of the Iceberg if you ask me. Of course they arent going to make it balls out the first year...thats what they do in the 3rd year after they sell a gazillion base models to get people to buy another one.

It wont end 2 strokes, but it will def put a dent in them. I see a flood of cheap parts machines hit the market the next couple years which with less people rebuilding them b/c they arent worth as much, will make parts fall even more.

Even still, I am SO glad they stepped out there and made it happen. We've all been yelling it, hell I told every Seadoo factory rep thats what they need to do for years. I sure hope the industry follows suit, that next year they have their own spec class of racing, and racing comes back with avengence. Doesnt going to the dealer, buying a say $6000 ski, and racing it right out of the crate against like thinking people sound fun? Alot better than spending $15g+ for a beginner to the sport and to racing is what I'm saying.

Now Joe, how do you feel about the craftsmanship of the top deck and seal? Is it going to take a real beating and keep water out? How about for us rough riders shattering ebox mounts and battery boxes jumping them...think it can handle that? I literally have all sorts of stress cracks under the seat on my XP from jumping...we beat the piss out of these things. Is there any room around the engine for mods or is the top deck tight to the innards?

Did you ride the HO or non....or both? Seat of the pants feel...does it feel like a two stroke when you gun it and make you grin from the acceleration, or is it more reserved and feel "soft" so to speak?

How did you feel about the optional storage? That so weird its optional.

 

[wrench2ride]

The HP is all in tuning just like the 2013 SE 130 and 155 if you have buds with the mega tech key you can change the settings and increase the HP. I am ready to buy one just to split the Hull.They say it only takes 10 mins to pull the top half off. Wish I was back working at the dealer just so I could PDI one.I am wondering if there going to come out with new tech training in Atlanta?Any florida dealers need a temp watercraft tech? They started using this motor last year in there Ski-Doo's so it has been out and tested in the public for almost 2 years now.

first production year for the 900 ace engine in sleds is this coming year, skidoo had some prototypes running last winter but this will be the first winter the public can actually buy one, they have had the 600 ace engine out for a couple of years now but it was a twin cylinder design, don't really see them coming out with a bigger engine in this hull maybe add a turbo or supercharger to the 900 which would be a welcome addition to the skidoo line as well!!

 

[Dr Honda]

..........


Did you ride the HO or non....or both? Seat of the pants feel...does it feel like a two stroke when you gun it and make you grin from the acceleration, or is it more reserved and feel "soft" so to speak?

Obviously, I didn't ride one... but in the one vid... there was a guy who jumped it out of the water, just on throttle. So... it looked quite peppy to me.

How did you feel about the optional storage? That so weird its optional.

I've been looking, and thinking about that all day. The opening is goofy, and in a couple of the vids... they have to FOLD a life jacket to get it in. So... for things like a small cooler would be useless. Also... the angle and shape of the lid, tells me it's not going to be waterproof. Personally... I would just get a waterproof bag, and stuff it in the opening, and put a small bungee net over the opening.


Just my random thoughts.

 

[JoeZ]

Now Joe, how do you feel about the craftsmanship of the top deck and seal? Is it going to take a real beating and keep water out? How about for us rough riders shattering ebox mounts and battery boxes jumping them...think it can handle that? I literally have all sorts of stress cracks under the seat on my XP from jumping...we beat the piss out of these things. Is there any room around the engine for mods or is the top deck tight to the innards?

Did you ride the HO or non....or both? Seat of the pants feel...does it feel like a two stroke when you gun it and make you grin from the acceleration, or is it more reserved and feel "soft" so to speak?

How did you feel about the optional storage? That so weird its optional.

The material they used isn't like fiberglass...it is a bit less ridged. Because of this, I think it will hold up well. The designers said it was made to jump and take the abuse, and that was what they did for fun while riding. It looked durable, but like with most things time will tell. They way it was designed, however, I don't see an obvious weak point. That little bit of give by the Polytec will help prevent stress fractures.

I rode both, and both were fun. Even the 60hp did well. The 90hp definitely put a grin on my face. I abused an orange one for a few hours straight. Lots of WOT, high speed turns and general tom-foolery. Surprising thing is I didn't use much gas. The acceleration is different than a 2 stroke...you don't get that late RPM boost from the raves or bogging at lower RPMs.

Yes the storage being optional was a bit of a surprise, but I understand why it was done: weight and cost savings. If built in, the weight would go way up. If the bin was included, the cost would increase. It was very difficult for them to get the base price under $5k. There is storage built in, however. It's small, but so is the PWC. Expect to see some aftermarket storage for the stern

 

[JoeZ]

I've been looking, and thinking about that all day. The opening is goofy, and in a couple of the vids... they have to FOLD a life jacket to get it in. So... for things like a small cooler would be useless. Also... the angle and shape of the lid, tells me it's not going to be waterproof. Personally... I would just get a waterproof bag, and stuff it in the opening, and put a small bungee net over the opening.

There is no waterproof storage on board. The lid on the optional storage is secured with rubber straps. It's not going anywhere, but water can get in and there are drain holes in the bottom of the bucket to drain it out. They do have a waterproof container that is designed to fit a cell phone, wallet and keys which is sold separately.


Also I can vouch for the jumping out of water...you can pretty well do that at will

 

[Strizzo]

With a supercharger on the 900 ace it could significantly lighten the other entry level skis like the gts130 and gti 130. The reduced weight combined with 110-120hp (conservative guess) would have those skis even or faster with current models.

I don't think the spark will have a huge impact on te used 4tec price, but I think the used spark market will.

I wonder how te uscg cert works with it being rated for two or three depending on an accessory.