The experiment begins..........

[biffdotorg]

This is really interesting. With such a slow cooling, you get to see where the ice is forming!

We went from the 30's to teens to -28f in a matter of a couple weeks. This past week was pretty brutal for December. Saturday the 7th some friends were out tailgating for a NDSU Bison football game and posting photos of their thermometer at -28f. That's not counting wind or humidity, just plain all-out nipple-ripping cold! It sure makes +20 seem balmy today!!

Keep up the cool reports!

 

[marquisman]

Propylene Glycol is expensive and it's unnecessary in most cases to use a 100% concentration to maintain freeze protection. Since we winterize a great many boats here, we mix the RV antifreeze and monitor the concentration as we go, we capture the expelled antifreeze in our tank as it exits from the exhaust system of the running engine (think sterndrive). First we drain the block but there is always some amount of water remaining in the engine block before we begin, so our captured mixture can become dilute and since we guarantee our winterizations, we must measure the concentration and adjust as necessary by adding either water or propylene glycol to our pump tank.

Since there's big money at stake in case the mixture is too thin, the only device I feel comfortable using for repeatable measuring of the antifreeze mixture is an refractometer calibrated for this purpose, it has paid for itself many times over.

The ONLY way to go if you're winterizing more than just a few! Otherwise for quick jobs I just use 100% and don't worry about the expense.

I would never consider using a toxic antifreeze for winterizing marinecraft.

We use 100% concentration in the boats at my work but, we use a little. We drain all water and not just flush it. On PWCs, we use even less. Do you guys recycle the antifreeze when summerizing boats?

 

[Dr Honda]

We use 100% concentration in the boats at my work but, we use a little. We drain all water and not just flush it. On PWCs, we use even less. Do you guys recycle the antifreeze when summerizing boats?

Generally, no. That's why we use pink RV antifreeze.


Just a note... please don't make long posts about winterizing procedures on this thread. I don't want the data getting buried in a lot of chatter.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Just a note... please don't make long posts about winterizing procedures on this thread. I don't want the data getting buried in a lot of chatter.

Good point Doc. I use this table while blending our PG antifreeze:

PG Percent Burst Rating Freeze Rating
30% -50°F +12° to +16°F
35% -60°F +7° to +10°F
60% -100°F -58° to -63°F
96% -200°F -98° to -103°F

The refractometer we're using measures freeze point in F*, which is greater than burst point, and is calibrated using distilled water as a reference. The users manual for this device can be found here:
http://www.misco.com/Downloads/MISCO_MAN_70X4VP_HR.pdf

I made a graph from the data provided at this link
http://www.sficoils.com/Websites/sf...it category - Ethylene - Propylene glycol.pdf

 

[Dr Honda]

Date: 1-3-2014

Time: 8:30 AM

Temp: 6.4 Deg F


100%: Liquid, no expansion
75%: Some Liquid, some soft ice. no expansion.
50%: Some Liquid, mostly ice. some expansion.
25%: No Sign of Liquid. noticeable expansion, and the container is bulged. Engine damage is HIGHLY PROBABLE.
0%: No Sign of Liquid. noticeable expansion, and the container is bulged. Engine damage is HIGHLY PROBABLE.

Notes: Well... we got down to a new low temp. Even though it was above freezing yesterday, and all the containers were liquid... it was very cold overnight. As you can see, we have now hit the "Damage Zone" for the 25% mix. It was just as solid, and hard as the fresh water. The 50% mix had some liquid, but it has a mass of layered, flaking ice. It's still soft enough to crush with only a small amount of pressure, so I would say it's still safe. The 75% mix is icy, but mostly liquid.

Note 2: we should be even colder tonight... and this coming Monday is projected to get into the negative region. So, watch for updates.

 

[Dr Honda]

Date: 1-7-14

Time: 8:00 AM

Temp: -7.3 Deg F


100%: Some Liquid, mostly ice. no expansion. (Slurpee stage)
75%: Very little Liquid. Icy. some expansion, but no bulging of the container.
50%: No Liquid. Icy. some expansion.
25%: No Sign of Liquid. noticeable expansion, and the container is bulged. Engine damage is HIGHLY PROBABLE.
0%: No Sign of Liquid. noticeable expansion, and the container is bulged. Engine damage is HIGHLY PROBABLE.

Notes: OK boys and girls.... here's the one the really counts. I'm not sure if we broke a record... but this is much colder than a normal low in Pitt. The news this morning said "We haven't seen temps like this since the 80's." The temp listed at that data point wasn't the "Peak" low. At around 5am, the low temp got down to -8.7 Deg F.

Note 2: As you can see, the 0% and 25% are totally frozen solid. There is a 100% chance of damage.

Note 3: The 50% mix is the strange one. It's relatively solid, but it's wet. It's also expanded. Because of that, there could be damage to something like Iron, or some plastics that will get brittle as it gets cold. But, since the freeze would have been slow... I feel that if there is any air space... the damage may have been avoided. Regardless.... this mix is still in the potential Danger Zone.

Note 4: The 75% mix is very icy, but I could brake the ice with a light squeeze. So, I would say this is still at a safe mix, as long as there was some air space.

Note 5: The 100% mix is now at our "Slurpee" stage. It's thick and icy... but it will move with the slightest pressure on the container.



With this data point.... I feel the test is more or less done. If it was a few degrees colder... even the 75% would have been at the danger point.

Needless to say... the closer you are to the ideal mix of the antifreeze, the safer you will be. Remember, our 100% is the ideal mix at 60:40, and our %'s are dilution %'s. So, even at a 50% dilution... you would be ok with a typical Pitt winter.

With all that said, you should do your best to get the proper mix into your toys... but it generally won't be the end of the world as long as you get some antifreeze into them.


I will leave the containers on the porch until spring, and if we get another very cold day, I will post the results.