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Supercharger rebuild 100 hours????

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regardless if you've been on this forum for years and only seen a couple threads of this occurance. that doesn't mean these washers are full proof. i am a sea-doo tech. i work for sea-d00. i 've seen tones of theese washers go bad. its just something that happened when you do not to regularly schedualed maintence. by the way you do not need any kind of special tool for this job. just have torque bits for you ratchet.

Im not saying the metal washers wont break just saying there the best ones you can use. If all you use is a rachet to change the washers then how do you hold the gear and check the slip with just a rachet?????
 
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Guys, now that I've done the research I think I understand this issue. Please tell me if my logic is correct.

The 2007 boat I'm buying has the ceramic washers. This boat is under warranty till 10/2011. With 31 hours on boat I intend to bring it to Barneys of St Pete at 50 hours for the 50 hour service. At that time I will ask them to inspect the Supercharger. If they say its fine(and document that) I then plan on doing the rebuild at 100 hours. If the supercharger grenades before the 100 hours I'm covered under warranty correct?

Craig
 
How much is the replacement of the washers?

If they are going to service it, why not replace it and not have a suspect part in the boat? I rather pay a few hundred dollars and not have a incident that puts it out of commission for weeks for either a rebuilt or a replacement.
 
Good point

Jim,

You make a good point. True it should be covered under warranty but how sucky would it be to A) be out on the water with the family and get stranded. And B) have my boat in service for who knows how many weeks getting it fixed and dealing with the incredible frustrations.

Lemme call Barneys and find out the cost to replace during the 50 hour service.

Craig

If they are going to service it, why not replace it and not have a suspect part in the boat? I rather pay a few hundred dollars and not have a incident that puts it out of commission for weeks for either a rebuilt or a replacement.
 
Just spoke with the people at Barneys of St. Pete. Anne(cute hottie who I flirt with every chance I get), suggests the same thing you do Jim. Why wait and ruin your day and lay the boat up for weeks in prime season?

Their approach is a little different though. They recommend the Riva Steel washer kit only and not rebuild the entire supercharger. Part price $115 plus $185 labor. They arent recommending the entire supercharger rebuild.

Craig
 
Agreed, for $300 I'd do it and be done with it. Plus I've heard grumblings of the washers being a wear item and the warranty doesn't cover wear items, yada, yada. I don't know how true that is, but would suck to have to deal with regardless. Esp if the washer ends up grenading the whole motor. Seems like a much better idea to replace before it becomes a problem.

Also, lets say a washer does go. The shop fixes and 'says' the motor wasn't effected. I know it would always be in the back of my mind whether or not some damage was done or whether the life of the motor was effected.
 
2008 seadoo rxp washers went at 13hrs covered under warrenty gone again at 42 hrs seadoo says they will only fix once even though I have extended warrenty what happen to customer service?
 
I would see a lawyer if it comes up again. They can't just decide to change the rules....only Obama can do that!!
 
2008 seadoo rxp washers went at 13hrs covered under warrenty gone again at 42 hrs seadoo says they will only fix once even though I have extended warrenty what happen to customer service?

what dealer are you dealing with? id go to another dealer.....
 
I disagree

regardless if you've been on this forum for years and only seen a couple threads of this occurance. that doesn't mean these washers are full proof. i am a sea-doo tech. i work for sea-d00. i 've seen tones of theese washers go bad. its just something that happened when you do not to regularly schedualed maintence. by the way you do not need any kind of special tool for this job. just have torque bits for you ratchet.

This post is old, but I have to say that this is frustrating. Regular maintenance that is performed by the dealer has nothing to do with the supercharger and/or the washers. My supercharger failed at the end of last year. I replaced it at the dealer for $1400. This year the entire engine failed due to the bits clogging the oil screen in the oil pan. The cost of a "refurbed" engine? $6700.

These superchargers are unreliable and I'm not sure what to do about it. My boat is a 2006 180 Challenger with the 215 SCIC. I DID replace the ceramic washers with the Titanium Washer kit from BRP at 56 hours. At 116 hours my supercharger bearings failed. This is another little dirty secret that BRP doesn't want to talk about. Apparently, the bearings are steel and are not rated for the speeds at which the supercharger spins. This is fine until you start to deal with the heat/friction issue. Then they just break apart just like the ceramic washers do.

The entire fan inside was ground down and the parts went into the engine (oil pan). What happens? It is only a matter of time before the shavings/parts get lodged in your engine core causing an interuption of oil flow.

supercharger2.jpg


supercharger1.jpg


This causes the engine to fail.

Challenger180_002.jpg


90% compression failure on cylinder 1.

Suprisingly? BRP has a complete refurb plan where they will take your old core and rebuild it and send out someone else's rebuilt core. Warranty is only good for 1 year.

If you are out of warranty (like I am), Seadoo sees this as "wearable parts" and is not interested in acknowledging a design flaw. Numerous mechanics have told me that there is NO WAY to get the little shavings out of the engine compartment with out remanufacturing it. There is NO WAY! What does this mean? Supercharger fails? Or partially fails and you are looking at an engine core replacement.

Oh, and by the way, Seadoo only warranties their replacement parts for 90 days. If you replace your washers with OEM parts, make sure to do it in the spring!

dootndo2
 
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Personally… I will yank the S/C and replace it with a turbo. Also… if I did buy a SeaDoo S/C boat… I would put boost gauges on each engine to keep an eye on the boost. First sign of low boost… the washers would get replaced.

+1^ Sound advice then, still true now.

Turbo conversion is the way to go, a bit expensive to get started, for the novice. A kit will probably never pay for itself, but will save you a whole bunch of down time, and is much safer for the engine.

When the supercharger dies, it dumps metal trash into the oil pan. The oil pump picks it up and it is filtered clean, bearings and such should be fine right? Wrong, the oil pump dies from trash ingestion, and subsequently the rest of the engine from low oil volume or pressure.

What can you do? Insist on an oil pump replacement if the supercharger ever fails. Changing the oil will tell you nothing unless there are large chunks of metal in the pan. The only way to gauge the pumps health, without pulling it, is to cut the old oil filter apart and look for metal.

When a turbo dies, you just get laughed at. Usually the oil seals fail from coking cause by lack of oil changes, and hot shut-downs. The result is your intake and or exhaust ingest oil, and cause lots of blue smoke. Engine eats some oil, but other than that, it is a matter of cleaning everything up, and swapping on a new turbo. I've done some math and my cars have over 2,500 hours on their original turbos. Probably a lot more since not all that time is spent at 60mph.

What can you do about your horrible situation? Well, I'm going to look at this as if I just bought your boat for pennies because you gave up. The oil pan is full of trash, the supercharger is junk, and I wan't to get on the water for cheap.

The engine oil passages should not be full of metal unless you drove the thing until it lost oil pressure. With that said, I would pull main and rod bearings to inspect for wear and clearance check. Depending on condition, I would order parts accordingly. To get out cheap, I would measure piston clearances, with the other two good, I would buy one factory oversize, just enough to repair the bore. I would order an MLS head gasket if available. Pull the head, have the bad cylinder bored to match the new piston. Balance the rods/pistons. Low hour engine, so I would reuse any rubber gasket I could. I would assemble my engine, recheck everything, and re-install. Next, I would find a local shop that builds turbo cars. They would mod my exhaust J pipe after the water injector to route exhaust to my turbo, and back to the thru hull fitting, or a waterbox. I would pick a nice garrett turbo out, standard bearings, probably from the GT series. I would mock it all up, figure out how to route the oil and return from points previously used on the supercharger. I would install a manual boost controller set to 7-8lbs. I would put a boost gauge on the dash beside a new oil pressure gauge, and A/F meter to keep an eye on things. Then I would finish final fitment/installation, test and tune in the water. Then after 10 hours or so, I would re-torque the head.

The other option, if you have more cash to spend, is http://www.shopsbt.com/seadoo_jet-ski_engine_premium/P40-113.html They only give you a one year warranty as well for the supercharged 4-tech. Even on their premium engines. Then you could buy a turbocharger kit from somewhere, or just have a seadoo gofast shop install it for you.

The SC seadoos disappointed me at first because of the failures, but then I realized the used market was going to be flooded with these things as soon as warranty started running out, and that makes me happy.

:cheers:
Ernest
 
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I just now had a chance to see the pictures, what does the head look like? I'm guessing the intercooler is full of supercharger compressor wheel as well. Having to go back and edit my post....

:cheers:
Ernest
 
Craig, if the warranty expire in 10/2011 then you have 1 month of coverage left.....not 69 hours of engine use. If it blows at 50 hrs next spring...you have no warranty time left...6 months past the coverage ending date.....correct????? or did I misunderstand you?
 
As a newbie I need to pipe in here and get some advice. I just bought my 2008 speedster 150 (215hp supercharged) this year - used with 80 hrs on it. It came with all service records from local dealer and an extended warranty till June 2012.

I'm bringing it in for winterization and service in October. By then I might have 95 hrs on it.

I called BRP and I can buy an additional extended warranty till June 2013, but I have no idea how much this will cost.

Questions: Should I have the dealer take apart the supercharger to inspect it this year?? Will this affect warranty?

Should I buy the extended coverage till 2013? What would one expect to pay for this?

My boat runs great, and it appears to have been well maintained in the past. I just hope that I haven't bought a boat that will only last a season or two. I was hoping to get at least 4-5 years out of this thing....

Nicko
 
As a newbie I need to pipe in here and get some advice. I just bought my 2008 speedster 150 (215hp supercharged) this year - used with 80 hrs on it. It came with all service records from local dealer and an extended warranty till June 2012.

I'm bringing it in for winterization and service in October. By then I might have 95 hrs on it.

I called BRP and I can buy an additional extended warranty till June 2013, but I have no idea how much this will cost.

Questions: Should I have the dealer take apart the supercharger to inspect it this year?? Will this affect warranty?

Should I buy the extended coverage till 2013? What would one expect to pay for this?

My boat runs great, and it appears to have been well maintained in the past. I just hope that I haven't bought a boat that will only last a season or two. I was hoping to get at least 4-5 years out of this thing....

Nicko

Here's how this works.

1. Buy the extended warranty hands down. It will cost you around $1500-2000 USD. Why? Because in my case, without an extended warranty, there will be NO GOOD WILL HELP if you have a catastrophic failure like mine after the warranty expires.
2. Call and open a case with Seadoo about everything that fails on your craft. Even simple things. NOT having a record at Seadoo Corp also was a justification on their end to not help me. Service records don't mean anything to them. Don't assume that your dealer will do this. Mine did not and it is now costing me.
3. Have your supercharger rebuilt every spring using OEM parts to get the 90 day warranty. Doing it in the winter is a bad idea because your warranty on the parts will expire before you get to take it out in the spring.
4. If you have a supercharger failure. Bend over. New engine $6700.

dootndo2
 
+1^ Sound advice then, still true now.

Turbo conversion is the way to go, a bit expensive to get started, for the novice. A kit will probably never pay for itself, but will save you a whole bunch of down time, and is much safer for the engine.

When the supercharger dies, it dumps metal trash into the oil pan. The oil pump picks it up and it is filtered clean, bearings and such should be fine right? Wrong, the oil pump dies from trash ingestion, and subsequently the rest of the engine from low oil volume or pressure.

What can you do? Insist on an oil pump replacement if the supercharger ever fails. Changing the oil will tell you nothing unless there are large chunks of metal in the pan. The only way to gauge the pumps health, without pulling it, is to cut the old oil filter apart and look for metal.

When a turbo dies, you just get laughed at. Usually the oil seals fail from coking cause by lack of oil changes, and hot shut-downs. The result is your intake and or exhaust ingest oil, and cause lots of blue smoke. Engine eats some oil, but other than that, it is a matter of cleaning everything up, and swapping on a new turbo. I've done some math and my cars have over 2,500 hours on their original turbos. Probably a lot more since not all that time is spent at 60mph.

What can you do about your horrible situation? Well, I'm going to look at this as if I just bought your boat for pennies because you gave up. The oil pan is full of trash, the supercharger is junk, and I wan't to get on the water for cheap.

The engine oil passages should not be full of metal unless you drove the thing until it lost oil pressure. With that said, I would pull main and rod bearings to inspect for wear and clearance check. Depending on condition, I would order parts accordingly. To get out cheap, I would measure piston clearances, with the other two good, I would buy one factory oversize, just enough to repair the bore. I would order an MLS head gasket if available. Pull the head, have the bad cylinder bored to match the new piston. Balance the rods/pistons. Low hour engine, so I would reuse any rubber gasket I could. I would assemble my engine, recheck everything, and re-install. Next, I would find a local shop that builds turbo cars. They would mod my exhaust J pipe after the water injector to route exhaust to my turbo, and back to the thru hull fitting, or a waterbox. I would pick a nice garrett turbo out, standard bearings, probably from the GT series. I would mock it all up, figure out how to route the oil and return from points previously used on the supercharger. I would install a manual boost controller set to 7-8lbs. I would put a boost gauge on the dash beside a new oil pressure gauge, and A/F meter to keep an eye on things. Then I would finish final fitment/installation, test and tune in the water. Then after 10 hours or so, I would re-torque the head.

The other option, if you have more cash to spend, is http://www.shopsbt.com/seadoo_jet-ski_engine_premium/P40-113.html They only give you a one year warranty as well for the supercharged 4-tech. Even on their premium engines. Then you could buy a turbocharger kit from somewhere, or just have a seadoo gofast shop install it for you.

The SC seadoos disappointed me at first because of the failures, but then I realized the used market was going to be flooded with these things as soon as warranty started running out, and that makes me happy.

:cheers:
Ernest

A few things.

Here is a picture of the headers:

Challenger180_005.jpg


Scoring on the cylinder wall:

Challenger180_003.jpg


With regards to the turbo thing, that just doesn't seem practical or an effective use of my money. Have you done this? Why would I buy a supercharged boat, tear out the supercharger and change it to a turbo? Somehow, I think this would create more problems then solve.

The objective is to hold BRP accountable for their poor design. Not remanufacture an engine with a design flaw so that it doesn't break. This doesn't seem logical to me IMHO.

dootndo2
 
Here is what I believe to be the best plan if you have an 08 or older supercharged 4tec engine.

Prior to 09 for boats and prior to 08 for skis the only thing keeping your supercharger clutch washers and bearings oiled was a jet that sprayed oil onto the outside of the clutches, and nothing other than residual splashing for the bearings. This was a crappy design considering the charger spins around 50,000 RPMs. At that speed the spray of oil was just flung off and never really accomplished its task of keeping anything lubed.

The newer engines have a redesigned oil sprayer that actually shoots oil into a hole in the SC shaft and the only way it can escape is through the clutches and bearing. This is a far superior design.:thumbsup:

I have an 06 C180 with over 100 hours on it without issue. I did the riva washers thing when that was all that was available.

Last year I needed to rebuild my SC but instead opted to just buy a new x charger and some bigger injectors to keep up with the added boost. At the same time I purchased the parts to retrofit my engine with the new oiler mod.

Doubt I will ever have any SC issues as I have read about guys running really big boost wheels like rivas gen 3 supercharger at something like 15 -17 lbs of boost. These guys previously reported that they had to do SC maintenance every 5-10 hours or so but are now getting 10 times the amount of life out of them with the new oiler.

Every manufacturer has their problems and I believe that BRP has finally come up with something that will work for the long run....

Cheers.
 
Doubt that you will have problems

Doubt I will ever have any SC issues as I have read about guys running really big boost wheels like rivas gen 3 supercharger at something like 15 -17 lbs of boost. These guys previously reported that they had to do SC maintenance every 5-10 hours or so but are now getting 10 times the amount of life out of them with the new oiler.

This means that they are getting 50 hours between services? That's 1/2 the current spec of 100 hours.

Hope you are right. They came up with the Titanium washers in 2008. The bearings failed on mine causing the entire supercharger to get chewed up in the housing. New engine needed for next year. I wouldn't let your guard down. I doubted that I would have problems either. And yet, here I am.

Every manufacturer does have their problems. The real issue here is that a supercharger failure while the engine is running = new engine. That is not acceptable. It wouldn't be so bad, but it's the elephant in the room and they keep denying that it is a problem. They keep tweaking a poor design and using our bank accounts as the guinea pigs.

dootndo2
 
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