Seadoo Speedster

[ProbeGT]

Hi,

I sold my old Sea-rayder boat and wanted to find a 3D with the Direct injected engine but i can't seem to find one.

On the other hand, i really liked my little boat but it was underpowered. So far i've seen several Seadoo Speedsters for sale with twin 110HP (787 i think)

I know I'm probably not on a good forum to ask this since everyone here my have a seadoo product but are those reliable?

My questions are simple

1- Are the engines reliable (or the boat at all)
2- how fast is it?
3- How thirsty are they (I know it's hard to answer but let's say at high speeds)
4- Are parts for the engines expensives (I already learned that with my Sea-rayder)

Finally. There a several models of boats from Seadoo, Speedster, sportspter, challenger, all are about on the same price range for the same year.

I have a budget of 8000$ cnd (about de price for 97-99 models here) I want something fast (at least 50 MPH) reliable, practical and easy on fuel.

I've seen some boats with the 951Di (sportster LE-Di), i know this engine is very good on fuel but only 1 engine makes me beleive it'll be underpowered like my old rayder.


I carry 2-3 maybe 4 people and do some tubing and skis. Sometimes i go on long afternoon cruise. And when i'm alone i like to spin out and jump waves.

What would be the best choice, let's say i might be able to go to 9000$ if it REALLY makes the difference.

 

[Dr Honda]

Hi,

There are a bunch of questions there... but lets start.

This will reflect on the 90's 14.5' boats.

OK... all the little seadoo sport boats are going to get you to the speeds you are looking for. I personally own the "weakest" version. I have a sportster with a single 720 (85hp) engine in it. I achieved a top speed of 47 mph with me, and one other person in the boat. With my top up, and 4 people in the boat... I can still see 41 ~ 43 mph. I have no problems pulling a tube, or a wake board. If I had more power... it would be easyer. If my buddy on the wake board cuts hard... it will slow me down, or if I try whip the tube... I need to go to full throttle. Regardless... we still have fun. Also... with the single engine... I can play all day on 1 tank of fuel. (WOT is about 8 ~ 9 gph)

The speedster is the same boat with two 720 engines in it. It should see the low 50 mph mark. The reason it's not significantly faster is because it's still springing at the same RPM's. With 2 pumps... it can accelerate faster, and won't bog down as bad while pulling someone. Also, the hole shot on the twin engine is great ! The down side of the twin is that you have twice the maintenance, and replacement when parts go bad. Also, it sucks down twice the fuel.


That leaves the Challenger. (the boat I think I would recommend) This boat has a single 800 engine (110 hp) and will get good fuel economy. (about 12 gph @ WOT) This boat has the best compromise between power, weight, fuel economy, and maintenance costs. It also has a manual trim system that the other boats don't have, and it has an extra rear facing seat. (the speedster gets the extra seat in 97 as I recall)

Any of those boats should be able to be found, in VERY good condition for $4000 to $5000. If you find one that has been cared for, and has had a new engine put in it... they are all very reliable. The 720 engines are dam near indestructible. If they are fed good oil, and fuel... and you don't neglect them... they can run for 10 or more years. The 800 engine is almost as good... you just have to keep an eye on the RAVE valves every once in a while.

All of these older boats share parts with the PWC of the era, so parts are easy to find.

Everything I just said has to be taken with a grain of salt. I am making some assumptions that the boat you find is in good condition, or you have the ability to do a little work on it. Also... you can find a very nice boat... but let's face it... they are still used, and people aren't always honest, so you can't assume that it will be reliable until you go over the entire boat, and check everything. But, once things are checked, and warn parts are replaced... it should be very reliable with no know issues.

 

[Dr Honda]

Couple more thoughts....

As far as expence... parts aren't to bad for the little boats. But if you decide to move up in size... stay away from the Mercury powered boats. They are reliable, but the parts are expensive.

I also noticed that you re up in Canada. I'm not sure of the market up there... but you should still be able to find a boat within your budget.

 

[ProbeGT]

What about the sportster LE-di ?

It's a little more expensive (more in the 9500$ range) but it seems better. I've read some comments about 50-55MPH with that boat but I really doubt it. I have a 120HP in my sea-rayder and alone with a brand new jet pump i can barely achieve 40MPH (it's a 16.5' boat) and take-off is quite long when we're 3 in the boat.

Thanx for the info on the twin engine, i would have tought they'd adapt the impellers to the power and make them a lot faster.

As for the challenger (i think you're not talking about de 1800) still, it's 10HP less than my boat. I don't doubt your arguments, but I'm wondering how it can go faster than my boat with 35HP less.

 

[Dr Honda]

What about the sportster LE-di ?

It's a nice boat... but personally, I would have a hard time putting my money down on a fuel injected 2 stroke. They are reliable, but the parts in the used market are harder to come by, and OEM prices are expensive. On a 2 stroke... I like carbs.

I've read some comments about 50-55MPH with that boat but I really doubt it. I have a 120HP in my sea-rayder and alone with a brand new jet pump i can barely achieve 40MPH (it's a 16.5' boat) and take-off is quite long when we're 3 in the boat.

Most of the small SeaDoo boats run right around the 50 mph mark. Some a little faster... some a little slower. (like my Sportster) Also... the Di motor is a big motor, with a good top RPM. (RPM is the key) As far as take-off's go, my sportster with 2 people has zero cavatation, and will be up on step in about 3 seconds, and can be into the 40 mph mark in about 6 or 7 seconds. It's quite quick. With 4 people and gear... I can still be into a cruising speed in about 7 or 8 seconds.

Thanx for the info on the twin engine, i would have tought they'd adapt the impellers to the power and make them a lot faster.

Honistly... very few people care about a actual top speed. Sure... we see the question asked here... how can I make my boat/ski faster on the top. The answer is a new impeller... but you give up bottom end, or "out of the hole" performance. Most people ask for top speed... but they actually want acceleration.

As for the challenger (i think you're not talking about de 1800) still, it's 10HP less than my boat. I don't doubt your arguments, but I'm wondering how it can go faster than my boat with 35HP less.

No... My opening line was saying this was all the 14.5' boats.

As far as "It's 10hp less"... well... it has a lot to do with design. First... the little seadoo boats are very light for their size. My Sportster is 964 Lbs (430Kg) dry. I'm thinking your boat is closer to 1200 Lbs. My boat is only 14.5', so there is less wetted area. (less drag) and finally, Seadoo uses a direct drive pump. Your boat uses a gear box in a very thick oil bath. I'm sure that is pulling 10% of you HP away from the pump.

I can't say I've seen your boat... but there is a Sugar sand boat at the lake all the time, with the same Merc 120 jet drive you have, in about the same sized hull. My single 85 can jump out of the hole quicker... and is a good 5 mph faster on the top. I'm not sure of his top engine RPM but it sounds lower than mine

I'm not saying SeaDoo's are the best boats out there... but for a little "play" boat... they are.

 

[Dr Honda]

The best thing for you to do is... next time you are at the lake... find someone with a little SeaDoo boat, and explain that you are looking to buy one, and ask if you can go for a ride. Most boat people a nice... and I'm sure you will be able to check one out. :cheers:

 

[RFoster130]

I have a 98 Speedster and it is a 16 1/2 ft boat. It comes with 2 110 HP engines. I might be kinda biased, but I think its the best of the older 2 stroke boats. It has 2 of the highest HP motors and it is also slightly bigger than the other years. The 787 engines are very reliable. I haven't had a single problem. If you do manage to blow one up, you can get a complete new engine with a warranty for $1200.

These boats usually go anywhere from $3000 to $7000 depending on condition. I buoght mine last year for $6200. It only had 85 hours on it and was spotless. I have done a lot of upgrades including the audio system and hydroturf but the boat is like new to me and tons of fun. I don't think it is very accuarte but my speedo has shown 57. It is a very fast boat and will pull anything you have behind it. It loves the gas though. I have gone through an entire 40 gallon tank in one day. Much of that was full throttle across one of the biggest lakes in our state though. You can make a tank last a weekend if you are just takin it easy.

In my opinion the 98-99 Speester is the best of many worlds. Fast, reliable, and rooomy enough for 4 people. I see them all the time on craigslist and ebay. Good luck with your search!!

 

[RFoster130]

http://www.boatdealers.ca/boats/details.aspx?BoatID=99956

This one looks nice.....but $9500? That is crazy!! I'd sell ya mine which is loaded for $10,000.

 

[ProbeGT]

I have a 98 Speedster and it is a 16 1/2 ft boat. It comes with 2 110 HP engines. I might be kinda biased, but I think its the best of the older 2 stroke boats. It has 2 of the highest HP motors and it is also slightly bigger than the other years. The 787 engines are very reliable. I haven't had a single problem. If you do manage to blow one up, you can get a complete new engine with a warranty for $1200.

These boats usually go anywhere from $3000 to $7000 depending on condition. I buoght mine last year for $6200. It only had 85 hours on it and was spotless. I have done a lot of upgrades including the audio system and hydroturf but the boat is like new to me and tons of fun. I don't think it is very accuarte but my speedo has shown 57. It is a very fast boat and will pull anything you have behind it. It loves the gas though. I have gone through an entire 40 gallon tank in one day. Much of that was full throttle across one of the biggest lakes in our state though. You can make a tank last a weekend if you are just takin it easy.

In my opinion the 98-99 Speester is the best of many worlds. Fast, reliable, and rooomy enough for 4 people. I see them all the time on craigslist and ebay. Good luck with your search!!

how many hours havec you made with that tank of gas?
My old rayder burns 50litres in about 3-3.5 hours full or 3/4 throttle.


Thanx for all the info DR Honda, it's very helpful. I'm seriously thinking about a sportster 951 then (carb or Di, it'd depend on condition) I'd like to have feedback from an owner here to confirm it really does 50-53MPH (GPS)

You were right on that sugar sand boat, it's about exactly the same thing as I have (power, weight, size). I know speed isn't all, it's just my rayder with a 40MPH top speed, is missing that little "omph" to really bounce on waves and have fun. Max RPM for those sportjet is 5200-5400RPM.

The twin engine speedster is still tempting but Gaz milleage still scares me, altough if Rfoster did a full day on his 150litres tank (about 6-8 hours) i'd be interested.

I think the best thing to do now is start seeking and go try one of each model (speedster and sportster 951)

 

[Dr Honda]

how many hours havec you made with that tank of gas?
My old rayder burns 50litres in about 3-3.5 hours full or 3/4 throttle.

50L... that's about 13 gallons.

Well... by the numbers... As I recall, the 14.5' seadoo's have a 27 gallon tank (102 L) so at WOT I would have a range of a little over 3 hours. But, pulling back to 75% power will drop fuel consumption dramatically.

I can't say that I've ever held the throttle wide open for 3 hours, so I can't say if that's 100% right or not. BUT... I can say this...

Last summer, I got to the local lake at about 9am and set up for a day with my family, and the family next door. My boat was out almost the entire day, with only a few breaks. (lunch, etc) I can't say how the girls were driving it... but when it was me driving it... it was being used like a big jet ski. (pounding the throttle back and forth) When we decided to pack up for the day (about 4:30pm) we still had not changed over to the reserve tank. All day, we burnt about 20 to 22 gallons.

Thanx for all the info DR Honda, it's very helpful. I'm seriously thinking about a sportster 951 then (carb or Di, it'd depend on condition) I'd like to have feedback from an owner here to confirm it really does 50-53MPH (GPS)

You were right on that sugar sand boat, it's about exactly the same thing as I have (power, weight, size). I know speed isn't all, it's just my rayder with a 40MPH top speed, is missing that little "omph" to really bounce on waves and have fun. Max RPM for those sportjet is 5200-5400RPM.

WOW... I didn't realize how low the RPM's were in those boats... no wonder they seem slow.

With a Jet pump... they become more efficient at higher RPM's. Well, maybe not more efficient, but the pump pressure builds exponentially. If I'm at a stop with a couple people in the boat, and I am easing into the throttle... my boat would just be plowing water at 5000 RPM, and it would take forever to get up on plane. Once it sees 6000 RPM... it's a different animal. Mash the throttle, and let it see 6500... it will hop up on a step almost instantly, and it will come up to 6900 ~ 7000 rpm's as it builds speed.

The twin engine speedster is still tempting but Gaz milleage still scares me, altough if Rfoster did a full day on his 150litres tank (about 6-8 hours) i'd be interested.

One last thought on fuel. The DI engine will get the best fuel economy of any of the 2 strokes. (for it's size) Expect about 12 ~ 13 gph@WOT and the carb version will be 14 ~ 15 GPH.

I think the best thing to do now is start seeking and go try one of each model (speedster and sportster 951)

Start soon... SeaDoo boats become hard to find as the weather gets better.

Good luck with your search, and let us know what you find.

 

[Dr Honda]

One last thing... and this goes back to the post the other day on HP and why your 120 may be slower than an 85hp or 110hp boat.

HP is a calculated number, and there is no real way to measure it. (you can measure torque, and acceleration when loaded to a known mass, and calculate HP) So... an engineer can actually calculate the horsepower of an engine just from it's "Designed" fuel consumption, and heat processing. It doesn't mean that the engine will ever actually make that power in the real world.

I cant say that I've ever seen a dyno chart on the 120 merc engine, but I know that the SeaDoo engines can actually make the advertised HP.

Just something to think about.

 

[Wag1826]

I have a 2005 Sportster Le DI and with me (@205lbs) and my budding (@~300lbs) hit 50-55 mph. However not on a GPS it is still moving. I am also able to tow a tube with two other people in the boat. Like the others have said it is hard to find a more fun boat for the money.

 

[RFoster130]

Yeah I have seen both ends of the fuel spectrum. An 8 hour day of many full throttle passes around the lake burned up a full tank. I have also had days where we just cruised around and hung out a lot and used less than a half tank. It really just depends on how fast you wanna go. I have a hard time holding back in this boat because it flies.

 

[ProbeGT]

8 hours on 150 litres is quite good for the power it makes.

i don't run full throttle all day, so this might be a good choice. What's your top speed? GPS'ed ?

 

[ProbeGT]

NVM for the speed, i saw you answered that earlier.

1 more question.

I've seen a few sportsters twin 85HP engines. Since the boat is smaller than the speedster, i figure the power/weight should be close. But will the twin 85HP burn as much fuel as the twin 110 or they are more economical since the boat is also lighter. Would these boat be a good deal? I know they don't have RAVE system wich make them less powerful. Are they as reliable as the 787?

 

[CypherAZ]

NVM for the speed, i saw you answered that earlier.

1 more question.

I've seen a few sportsters twin 85HP engines. Since the boat is smaller than the speedster, i figure the power/weight should be close. But will the twin 85HP burn as much fuel as the twin 110 or they are more economical since the boat is also lighter. Would these boat be a good deal? I know they don't have RAVE system wich make them less powerful. Are they as reliable as the 787?

The 717s in the mid 90s seadoo are very reliable. When we recently sold our 96' speedster we hit 135psi on all 4 cylinders, those were 14 year old engines after all.

 

[parrothd]

Hate to break it too you, but you're not going to get great MPG with dual engine boats, things that are fun and fast cost more to operate and maintain.

If you're trying to pinch pennies with fuel costs than don't look at a twin. You are always going to hit WOT on both engines and take off like a bat outta hell....

 

[ProbeGT]

Hate to break it too you, but you're not going to get great MPG with dual engine boats, things that are fun and fast cost more to operate and maintain.

If you're trying to pinch pennies with fuel costs than don't look at a twin. You are always going to hit WOT on both engines and take off like a bat outta hell....

I know it'll cost more, the only thing i'd like to know is an average on how the twin engine sportster/speedster will burn in an hour, it's the magical number that is hard to get.

25Litre per hour would be nice, more than that i'd seriously consider a single engine. But unless the 4tec supercharged, there's no single engine powerful boat...

I know a challenger with a 110HP won't be enough, i'll want to sell it before then end of summer. The only high power single engine jetboat is the sea-rayder FXR-16 (2.5 V6 merc) but they are VERY rare and parts cost a lot of money. Also sea-rayders have small fuel tank (50 litres) so you're always putting fuel in them.

I do know jetboat + fuel economy are 2 words that can't co-exist. I'd also like to know the difference in fuel consumption between the 720 and 787. If it's the same thing, I'll go for a speedster 98-99 then, if there's a good difference, i'll go for a little sportster twin 720.

But as you said before, if you did 8 hours on a 150litres tank, it's not that bad. Even if it would be 6 hours it'd still be good for 220HP.

 

[RFoster130]

6 hours isnt a problem. I have had days where we were out quite a while and going over 3/4 throttle for 20 minutes at a time. The tank lasted most the day. I say go for it. You wont regret the twin 787's.

 

[ProbeGT]

perfect, I only need to save a thousand bucks more now and find one in good condition.

new owner came to pick up my old rayder today and i learned that i shouldn't trust a boat shop. The guy did a survey on my rayder and there was some wet areas and de-laminated areas. Had to cut a 1000$ on the price to reflect the repair costs. Boat shop told be (i bought it last year) that it had just passed a survey and everything was perfect. survey guy told me this de-lamination took at least 2 years to happen...

Well, that's how we learn, with our wallet! Next boat i'll buy i'll survey it before I pay it!

Thanx for all you informations guys, it helped me a lot

 

[SeadooBOB Square Pants]

Yeah I got the 96 Speedster with the twin 717 and it does pitch you out of the hole really fast, my buddy almost made me throw up the first time he drove it by doing 360's for about 15min. straight. But gas comsumption as stated is kind of high. I almost always burn thru a tank at the lake but I also dirve it like its stolen soooo......

 

[ProbeGT]

I'm going to have a look at this one this saturday

http://www.drummondvillemarine.com/boutique/s=bateau/type=plaisance/item=sea-doo-speedster/id=130

It's about 1000-1500$ cheaper than any others and I really want to know why. I'll ask for a ride in the water, and i'll do a survey on it before i buy (I suspect wet fiberglass) It looks too good for this price so the problem is probably somewhere else.

What should I look for?

It this one is not correct I might also have a look on a 2002 sportster LT (twin 85HP) Anything that i should give a particular attention?

The speedster is so gorgeous, god that's a nice looking boat.

At how many hours should i think about engine rebuild if it hasn't been done? dealer doesn't mention a lot of information.

 

[Dr Honda]

Nice looking boat. If it's cheaper that what you are finding... then take it for a little test ride... and go for it.

 

[RFoster130]

Looks good. As long as it runs good, maybe it is just a bargain. I'm suprised how much they go for up there.

 

[Dr Honda]

Looks good. As long as it runs good, maybe it is just a bargain. I'm suprised how much they go for up there.

Yup... I've got one local to me for $4500. I'm half tempted to buy it... but I put so much time and effort into my Sportster... It would be hard to get rid of it.