Seadoo Gtx '04 185HP - Does it has intercooler? Can I upgrade the SC?

[brobertov8]

Hi All,

Seadoo Gtx '04 185HP - Does it has intercooler?
According some reading I´ve see the main diference between the 215 and 185HP is the intercooler in the manifold. Is that info correct?

Can I purchase an upgraded Supercharger for it? Since the 100hours service maintenance is coming, I would like to take the opportuninty and improve the performance.

Thanks

 

[JoeZ]

No intercooler, and the pistons, and drive gears for the supercharger are different. Not really worth upgrading unfortunately. My recommendation is to stay stock with the rebuild or sell for a 215 model.

 

[brobertov8]

No intercooler, and the pistons, and drive gears for the supercharger are different. Not really worth upgrading unfortunately. My recommendation is to stay stock with the rebuild or sell for a 215 model.

Thanks, Joez.

 

[KK40384]

I'm with Joe on this one.

 

[Coastiejoe]

What you have is an entry model ski within the performance field. As such, it is pretty limited as to what you can do with it.

It does what it is suppose to do and it does it well compared to the skis below it.. It is basically a tease,,, It will tease you into the next level up...

 

[Tytan]

I agree with the others leave it stock and enjoy it that's what I'm doing with my 05.

Anything is possible if you throw enough money at it the 185hp models can be upgraded for more power and speed but because of the different supercharger gearing and a few other differences between the 185hp and 215hp models it gets expensive fast. You would get more performance for less money by selling the 185 and buying a 215 to start modifying.

 

[AircraftDoc]

If the part number for the OEM SC for your GTX has changed, then the new SC will have all the updated parts. It should have a recommended 200 hr rebuild time vs. the old model's 100hrs.

OEM = Original Equipment from Manufacture.

 

[red2blue]

Hi All,

Seadoo Gtx '04 185HP - Does it has intercooler?
According some reading I´ve see the main diference between the 215 and 185HP is the intercooler in the manifold. Is that info correct?

Can I purchase an upgraded Supercharger for it? Since the 100hours service maintenance is coming, I would like to take the opportuninty and improve the performance.

Thanks

I'm gonna play devil's advocate on this one...

Correct...the 185 is less ic and tune...a few other internals.

However....I do know of a non ic'd 4-tec that's doing >70 in the Texas heat. A new flywheel will allow a bigger sc. It is possible...how deep are your pockets? How do you like wrench'n?

 

[Coastiejoe]

I'm gonna play devil's advocate on this one...

Correct...the 185 is less ic and tune...a few other internals.

However....I do know of a non ic'd 4-tec that's doing >70 in the Texas heat. A new flywheel will allow a bigger sc. It is possible...how deep are your pockets? How do you like wrench'n?

Kind of my point,,, how much money do you want to throw at the entry level machine? You can sell it and buy a 255 foe less than the money you will put into the upgrades of the 185...

 

[brobertov8]

I have to admit I like difficult things.... Like make a muscle car runs faster and better on road circuits than stock euro cars...

If I dive deep on this, much probably I would make the 185hp runs equal or who know better than superior skis...

But I got it to have my first 4tec, and like I usually say, good and bad is always relative. My point is, for me that always had two strokes seadoo, this 4tec SC is another world and it is not bad et al.
I would make an SC upgrade if it was worth, because I will have to do it soon, as a said.

Maybe I would use a free flow exhaust and a better intake and I will study what I can do with the EFI (better fuel delivery or engine timing for ethanol)... I believe I can gain some HP´s with that, even keeping the SC stock, since I have no SC upgrade for worth money.

I will post news further.
Anyway, thanks all for the tips.

regards,
Bruno

 

[KK40384]

If I was in your position and was willing to dive into this project head first, here's how is do it. Might not be the most logical or economical but anyway..... Here it is. First I'd keep it the way it is this season and save up for a replacement motor (215 or better), external intercooler (brand of choice), injectors, fuel pressure regulator, and a upgraded X charger. I'd get busy with some wrenches over the off season and haul a$$ next year. Of course you can't forget the aluminum pump and a impeller with a pitch matched to the upgrades. Can it all be done in the garage with minimal hand tools, shop manual, and some basic mechanical knowledge (which you seem to have)? I think so.

 

[brobertov8]

If I was in your position and was willing to dive into this project head first, here's how is do it. Might not be the most logical or economical but anyway..... Here it is. First I'd keep it the way it is this season and save up for a replacement motor (215 or better), external intercooler (brand of choice), injectors, fuel pressure regulator, and a upgraded X charger. I'd get busy with some wrenches over the off season and haul a$$ next year. Of course you can't forget the aluminum pump and a impeller with a pitch matched to the upgrades. Can it all be done in the garage with minimal hand tools, shop manual, and some basic mechanical knowledge (which you seem to have)? I think so.

These are good sugestions no doubt, thanks!


I was also thinking:

Why not install a turbo charger and remove the supercharger?
I don´t know yet about the EFI, but probably it increases fuel injection based on MAP.
So with turbocharger, a blow-off and better injections, should works good on the same OEM EFI system, with the advantage to makes possible better pressures and who knows even better durability.
---- But I know, it´s subject for another topic!!

it was just thoughts, since I have no aftermarkt options for better supercharger in my 185HP!!
Some company want´s to make a perfect fit upgraded SC???? I´m a possible buyer!!! LOL!

Regards

 

[JoeZ]

To make it worth while, you'll want to do that and more in my opinion. As stated, changing the pump is a must. With impeller, that's about $800. I'd go turbo, external intercooler, bigger injectors, RRFPR, and obviously a custom tune if not a standalone system. That's between $3000-$5000 depending on how you do it. With it, you'll also want to have swapped the pistons and rods. You'll need EGT gauge, AFR gauge, and I'd run a boost gauge as well (another $800).

Overall, sinking between $6,000 -$7,000+ makes about the only sense to keep the 185 and upgrade. My reasoning is because at this point you are forced to replace enough components that it wouldn't matter if you started with a 185 or 215.

For that money I'd rather buy SeaDoo with a 255/260 and maybe upgrade the supercharger wheel. Just food for thought!

 

[JoeZ]

it was just thoughts, since I have no aftermarkt options for better supercharger in my 185HP!!
Some company want´s to make a perfect fit upgraded SC???? I´m a possible buyer!!! LOL!

The pistons are cast and higher compression ratio. Plus no intercooler and the supercharger is driven slower. It's not really a matter of upgrading the supercharger...it's more about upgrading the internals of the engine to be able to gain power.

 

[AircraftDoc]

I agree with JoeZ. Fix it. And with the money you don't spend on upgrades, buy a used 260.

 

[Tytan]

If you want to spend some money on the 185 this is what I would do and the order I would do it:

First fix the weak areas:
- If you have the plastic pump replace it with a metal one.
- Upgrade flywheel bolts, do the 08 S/C oiler mod while you're in there.
- New intake and exhaust valves.

Mods and upgrades:
- Remove the OPAS system.
- 4" air intake system.
- Riva rear exhaust and gut the waterbox.
- Rebuild the supercharger and install an Engine Tech 127 wheel. This will increase boost without having to change to a 215 flywheel.
- Bigger injectors, not sure what size for a 185 need to do some research there.
- Reflash the ECU to at least 8100rpm, same as the 215 models which will increase boost as you are spinning the S/C faster. You could go higher RPM which would require upgraded valve springs and retainers.
- AFR gauge and fuel pressure regulator.
- External intercooler.

 

[brobertov8]

The pistons are cast and higher compression ratio. Plus no intercooler and the supercharger is driven slower. It's not really a matter of upgrading the supercharger...it's more about upgrading the internals of the engine to be able to gain power.

I agree with you: with that amount of money, better sell it and buy a 260.

But regarding the pistons, how much compression we have it? I mean whats the difference between compression o 185 and 255? Because this I believe I can solve it using higher injectors and ethanol, no problem.
And about the pistons material, do you know what is the boost which stock SC makes? just can´t believe we can not increase it a little bit! In most case manufacters always do not increase pressure to a good limit!

My main concerning is about the SC... With a huge list of problems here, even on the stock ones, I can´t believe it will be reliable with any upgrade.

thanks

 

[brobertov8]

If you want to spend some money on the 185 this is what I would do and the order I would do it:

First fix the weak areas:
- If you have the plastic pump replace it with a metal one.
- Upgrade flywheel bolts, do the 08 S/C oiler mod while you're in there.
- New intake and exhaust valves.

Mods and upgrades:
- Remove the OPAS system.
- 4" air intake system.
- Riva rear exhaust and gut the waterbox.
- Rebuild the supercharger and install an Engine Tech 127 wheel. This will increase boost without having to change to a 215 flywheel.
- Bigger injectors, not sure what size for a 185 need to do some research there.
- Reflash the ECU to at least 8100rpm, same as the 215 models which will increase boost as you are spinning the S/C faster. You could go higher RPM which would require upgraded valve springs and retainers.
- AFR gauge and fuel pressure regulator.
- External intercooler.

Thanks for the tips!

One more question regarding: Does these engines use one or two can? Two or four valves per cylinder?

Thanks

 

[Tytan]

Four valves per cylinder.

Stock boost on a 185 charger is around 5 to 6 lbs I believe not 100% on this. An Engine Tech 127 wheel in a 215 charger is around 10 lbs boost not sure if you will get 10 lbs on a 185 charger as the drive gearing is different. FYI the only difference between a stock 185 and 215 charger is the number of teeth on the drive gear but you cannot put a 215 charger in a 185 model unless you change the flwheel.

 

[brobertov8]

Four valves per cylinder.

Stock boost on a 185 charger is around 5 to 6 lbs I believe not 100% on this. An Engine Tech 127 wheel in a 215 charger is around 10 lbs boost not sure if you will get 10 lbs on a 185 charger as the drive gearing is different. FYI the only difference between a stock 185 and 215 charger is the number of teeth on the drive gear but you cannot put a 215 charger in a 185 model unless you change the flwheel.

Ok, thanks!

The only positive point I see about a lower booster and a low speed SC, compared with the 215HP, is in the theory, the SC will last a bit longer.

But even this way I did not believe why there is not a better SC for the 185, even maintaining the same gear, but they could improve the impeler and gain some boost pressure.

Why not a kit, with better injectors and a better SC.... in the end of the day, many people would buy it, on the 100hours revision.

I know the engine does not have Intercooler and uses a higher compression and maybe weak pistons (compared to 215/255/260), but anyway, it should handle more 30/40hp, with a better SC and injectors.

Regards,

 

[JoeZ]

Because that'd cost a grand, which at that point most would just sell the 185, get a 215 and be out ahead. If you're doing a huge build though, it doesn't matter as you are replacing everything anyway.

 

[brobertov8]

Because that'd cost a grand, which at that point most would just sell the 185, get a 215 and be out ahead. If you're doing a huge build though, it doesn't matter as you are replacing everything anyway.

Joez, since I will keep it stock, should I achieve 60/62mph at which rpm, please?

Just tested it today, did around 57mph at 6900/7000rpm of top speed. Is that ok? 77hours engine.

Thanks.
Bruno

 

[JoeZ]

You should be around 60-62 like you said, about 7500 rpm.