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Seadoo blues

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Craigmri

Craigmri

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Guys,

I'm totally burned out from shopping for a Challenger 180. Between the limited availability of boats, high prices, supercharger issues and expensive services(i.e. 10 hours, 50 hours, Supercharger rebuild), I've decided to look at other options out there.

Next weekend I Sea Trial this:

http://www.stingrayboats.com/products/models09/models.php?model=185LS&action=8

Who cares if I ding up a prop....It'll still cost less than half a supercharger rebuild!

Craig
 
quote....Who cares if I ding up a prop....It'll still cost less than half a supercharger rebuild!

:agree:...think we're on the same page, about that damn "supercharger".

That design/maintaining emphasis, is just RIDICULIOUS...
 
Straw the broke the camels back

Timmy,

Your right about it being ridiculous! The N/A engines are fine. Its the Supercharger that makes the "Jet boat" less practical. As I say, its one thing to pay a premium for a boat up front but its another when you factor in the high maintenance costs. That $25,000(OTD) new Challenger 180SE 255hp boat was sweet until I factor in maintenance. That same dealer quoted $400 for the 10 hour service(what a rip), $600 for the 50 hour service and $1000 for the 100 hour service with S/C rebuild(I'll burn through 100 hours in a year). Sure I probably could find lower cost dealers to service this stuff but come on! Now I'm going to eventually suck up stuff into the drive so now add the cost of impeller and wear ring into it and this Jet boat is becoming a less cost effective way to be out on the water. Finally factor in that after my sea trial with Zach who bought my U-205, we took the Utopia to the gulf that has some floating eel grass and we clogged the intakes requiring us to pull the boat out of the water and go to a river to conduct the sea Trial...And wait...there's more!.....Questionable Seadoo QC and customer service as witnessed by several forum members here.......I've learned in this economy and the state of the boating industry, many other options are out there that cost way less up front and way less down the road.

For Example:

This BRAND NEW 2009 Stingray 185LS I'm going to Sea Trial next Saturday comes with a 5 year warranty on the Volvo penta system, every option you can add on that boat, Galvanized trailer all for $16,500.....OUT THE DOOR PRICE!!(yes that includes Tax, freight prep you name it!)

This boat has similar performance specs when compared to the Challenger 180 with the 215hp package yet the Stingray gets far better fuel economy with a higher top speed.(Time to plane and time to 30 are similar)

I'll provide a full Sea trial report next weekend. I'm going out on it with the Salesman/Owner, my 225 pound brother, his wife and I will be in the water with my wake board to see how it pulls me out of the water. We'll see how she runs in this condition.

Craig

timmyboy76 said:
quote....Who cares if I ding up a prop....It'll still cost less than half a supercharger rebuild!

:agree:...think we're on the same page, about that damn "supercharger".

That design/maintaining emphasis, is just RIDICULIOUS...
Click to expand...
 
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Cid..think the problem is, stor'n in the garage. Craig got tired of the Utopia at storage yard, so went Challenger route, but only motors are 215SC or the 255SC...the Sppedster has 2-155 non SC, but problem again, is length of boat.
 
timmyboy76 said:
Cid..think the problem is, stor'n in the garage. Craig got tired of the Utopia at storage yard, so went Challenger route, but only motors are 215SC or the 255SC...the Sppedster has 2-155 non SC, but problem again, is length of boat.
Click to expand...

Gotcha :cheers:
 
I 'm kinda leaning towards Craig's way of thinking:(
Watching all the prop boats at full speed ,pulling wakeboards and tubes having no worries and lots of fun,while we putter along trying to dodge even the smallest of sticks in fear of not getting back to shore. We wood chipped at least 4 sticks last weekend,and took one home wrapped around the end of the wear ring:rant:
Granted the lake we are at fills up from rivers in the spring,thus the access wood,but will clear up in the summer. Can't wait to get back to full throttle:reddevil:
 
hey Craig
I did the same but i bought a BAYLINER
and im dumping my DOO
don't get me wrong i like my seadoo but i love my BAYLINER
 
Guys...it isn't a fair comparison.

First of all, neither types of boats is a one fit all situations. For Craig, he had a boat that did almost everything he wanted...but just couldn't fit in his garage. It was a hassle for him to get it out of storage and take it to the waters. So..the biggest problem is that the only Seadoo that fits in his garage have the supercharged engines....that required a rebuild at every 100 hours.

So, for discussion sakes, here are all the reasons why we are still here on this forum with our jet boats.

Pros.

1. No props. I love the fact that I am not facing a prop anytimes I am near the back of the boat. When I pull my kids up to the rear of the boat when we tow them, I am very happy about this. The past few times I have been with my buddy's fish n ski's...I cut a wide berth around his prop as I climb on to this boat.:willy_nilly:

2. Handling. Even Craig would admit, there isn't a prop boat that can make turns as sharp as a jetboat.:driving:

3. Power. Yes, the Seadoo boats need more horsepower...but the trust is incredible.:drool5:

4. Fun. Admit it! We all have grins when we are driving these things.:cheers:

Cons...and opposing views.:blush:

1. Running into things. Yes, there are things in the water...logs, stick, etc. And yes, you have to be a bit more conscious of where you are going. But how is that different with any other boat...if you run over a stick and dent your prop, how is that different?

2. Sucking up weeds. Yes, you do suck up weeds and potentially other stuff. I know...I had a run in with a strap in the water. My lake have some weed near the launching ramps and I do have to check my impeller once I get home. My buddy told me that his outboard also have to watch for weeds as it does plug up water to his engine....So again, what is different?

3. Cost of the repairs and maintenance cost. I don't think anyone here believe that this hobby isn't a 'money pit'. Beside the cost of the boat, insurance, and accessories, there is going to be maintenance and repair cost. If you don't budget for this, then you are being short sighted.

Bottom line...these boats are a bit more costier than the prop boats. But when you get a pretty good deals on these boats, it is less evident.

Anyone can rationalize the advantages or disadvantages of these boats all day and all night. Bottom line is...make a list of what is important to you and what you need. The boat that offers you everything you want...at the price you want...is the right boat for you!:hurray:
 
Another thing is the leg of the prop boats..You hit a log/rock with that & you may as well buy yourself a new boat $$$$
 
You guys all make excellent points. And I'm not saying I'll never buy another jet boat. I would buy a 230 Challenger with the 310hp package in a heart beat(if I had a garage large enough). Just seems the circumstances I'm in dictate a different direction at this point.

My Utopia was a phenominal boat. In fact, if I could turn the clock back a couple of months I probably would have kept it and delt with the storage thing as much as I hated to see the boat get dirty every week.

Lets see how my sea trial goes next saturday before you vote me off the Seadoo Island. :rofl:

Craig
 
See! Told you the issue earlier.

The problem isn't your boats...it's your house!!!:cheers:

Time to have that discussion with your daughter about that murphy bed again!!:rofl::rofl:

By the way, my buddy's outboard mercury just had an issue at the start of season with the warning light....$1200 later. He is back in the water..

One last thing...for a novice like...nothing is easier than driving my U-boat. It's like having an automatic transmission. No tilting of the drive, no trim to deal with, prop pitch to worry about...etc, etc, etc. :lols:
 
that boats, and inboard/outboard...if I knew my way around "car" motor, than I think i'd take that style boat. I dig my DOO, but I also, know how to work on it. Cant fathom paying dealers the price they want, and most time, aint what needs to be fixed.

As for thew Challenger, Craig, besides the fact you'd be "gutting" the new motor, what about, dumping the "supercharger" off it,...probably bad idea, but IS one?
 
Would that be a solution? Dumping the supercharger off of it??! I know that I have on two occasion had my starboard engine quit and was running on just one port engine...155hp. It wasn't up to task. That would be a problem as well.

Can you guys imagine if they put twin engines in a Challenger 180?!!:drool5::lols::puke:
 
Yep.. twin 155hp no s/c 18ft Challenger. Thats a dream boat..

Craig about the Stingray boats. They look a lot like the Tahoe brand Bass Pro Shop sells. I been inside them (at the store) and they are not that good looking for my taste. What I dont like the most is that the 18ft has carpet all over and it does not look like you can take them out to clean. I have carpet on my C1800 but I can take it out and I usually hang it to dry before I put it back in the boat. I heard people say that if left wet it will stink badly.


But I see your point.
 
Floor

CJ,

The stingray I'm considering has the fiberglass floor option. I'm with you on the glue down carpet deal for sure.

Craig

cjb said:
Yep.. twin 155hp no s/c 18ft Challenger. Thats a dream boat..

Craig about the Stingray boats. They look a lot like the Tahoe brand Bass Pro Shop sells. I been inside them (at the store) and they are not that good looking for my taste. What I dont like the most is that the 18ft has carpet all over and it does not look like you can take them out to clean. I have carpet on my C1800 but I can take it out and I usually hang it to dry before I put it back in the boat. I heard people say that if left wet it will stink badly.


But I see your point.
Click to expand...
 
Cid6.7 said:
Another thing is the leg of the prop boats..You hit a log/rock with that & you may as well buy yourself a new boat $$$$
Click to expand...

Hate to be the devils avocate here but if you are speaking to hitting the hull with a a log/rock then I believe all our boats would have seen better days. But if you are refering to the the prop hitting the object and destroying something it all depends what kind of prop. If you have a brass prop then the prop simply get destroyed and no damage to the engine or drive line. But I agree if he runs a stainless steel prop then all the energy is transfered to the engine. So two things; don't hit a log/rock or buy a brass prop. But personnaly I am not a fan of really any of the v-drive or other such prop boats but if you want a bigger boat from Seadoo he is right there are pretty limited options and they sometimes are hard to find. Unless you don't mind dropping your kids college fund into a boat just to have it run.......
 
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OK… I’m going to throw in my 2 cents….

I’ve been playing on the water for a lot of years, and over those years… I’ve played with all kinds of boats. There is one thing I’m going to tell you that you need to keep in your head:

ALL BOATS CAN BE DAMAGED, AND HAVE A “WEAKNESS!”

There were 2 times I can remember that the day was stopped early in a std. I/O boat because we hit the prop on something in the water. Both times we were in water that we thought was deep. (not close to the shore) But, none the less… a log or rock whacked the prop, and we were done. And trust me… you were not going to go play any longer because the vibration was so bad… we debated if we were just going to get someone to tow us back to camp. One of the 2 times… We tried to fix the prop, but it vibrated badly, then just threw the bad blade. (it was an aluminum prop) Also… Like said above… if you hit a log at speed with an I/O… you will bust the back of the transom. (and possibly the drive)

In the above scenario… a jet boat would have continued to play for the weekend.

Now… either system can be messed up by weeds, ropes, or plastic bags floating in the water. The jet system will respond with cavitation, or vibration forcing you to clear the problem. Sure, it’s annoying… but it can be fixed in a few minutes if you don’t mind getting wet. On an I/O or outboard… you may get vibration… but with a bag, or seaweeds… you could just block off your cooling water, and smoke the engine. (bad)

The last plus for a jet is that there are no sharp things hanging out the back for feet to get cut on. That is a biggie for me since I have a 3 year old who likes to climb on the back, and jump off while it’s sitting on the shore.

The plus on an I/O right now is that they are relatively cheap, but they are heavy. Sure… you will probably never feel catastrophic cavitation… but, you may kill gears, U-joints, coupling boots, and so on, and never know there is a problem until it breaks.

With all that said… I don’t think Seadoo makes a perfect boat… and I will never own one of the supercharged versions because of the maintenance issues… but they make a nice boat for someone who wants an oversized PWC.
 
I hated both my I/O's, if it wasn't one thing it was another, always having to grease the gimbal, replace the bellows, replace the u-joints, fix skeg, replace trim seals, replace trim motor, replace shift cables, I spent alot of time and money working on my I/O's granted one was a 96 and the other a 98, they always seemed to have something wrong, didnt have alot of issues with getting props beat up, but did have alot of other issues. I will say tho, your going to have downfalls to every boat design, none of them are reliable, and none of them are maintenance free, in my opinion you get what makes you happy. Right now I am loving my doo a whole lot more than any of the other boats I have owned, looking forward to purchasing my challenger next season!
 
HEY Craig
i saw the perfect boat for you yesterday :) now you could sell your house
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