port side engine not turning over

[xXxBurnStuffxXx]

My 98 sportster 1800's port side engine will not turn over. Less then a month ago i had the electric starter replaced. when i go to turn it on it makes a click as if it trys to turn over, but nothing more than that. Any clues to whats wrong and how i can fix this??

 

[seadoosnipe]

Starter?

Check to make sure the starter is getting a good ground and that all battery terminals are clean and making good contact. If you think so, then you probably have a bad solenoid. Did you replace the solenoid when you changed out the starter last time? Last, and this is something I'd do, but inexperience in doing this can cause arc out on a battery. I also wouldn't attempt this in the boat. Take the starter out and get a 12 volt battery to use (either from your car or the boat, where ever) and place the 12 volt battery on a piece of wood on the ground. Using a set of jumper cables, careful not to allow the two (positive and negative) connectors touch each other, connect the ground (negative) to the starter, at the bolt holes and where the positive cable attaches to the starter, while holding the starter down with your foot (shoes on) quickly make contact to the post (you'll get an arc), when you do, if the starter is good, the bendix will throw out the gear to the starter and you'll see the motor spin over. If you have a shop and can place the starter in a vise (jaws of vice to mounting foundation of starter) to help hold it, this will leave your hands free. DISCLAIMER: THIS CAN BE A DANGEROUS PROCEDURE IF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT OF ARC OUT BETWEEN THE NEGATIVE AND POSITIVE BATTERY POST. BATTERY EXPLOSION CAN OCCUR. I say this because at the age of 16, I blew up a battery while trying to jump off a friends car. I arced out the posts. I learned the hard way and have never arced a battery out since.

 

[xXxBurnStuffxXx]

well i didnt replace it myself. im still trying to figure out how the mechanic got the thing out. and yeah i was just about to go clean the connections. the solenoid im not too sure if the guy did anything with it.

 

[seadoosnipe]

Solenoid!

If you just replaced the starter, then I'll bet money that it's your solenoid!....
Clean, check and tighten all your starter contact points...the battery and the starter, if you can get to it. The starter being on the starboard side, it will probably be a little hard getting to. I have looked at the twin engine configuration, but can't recall how close it is to the hull. If you still can't get it to work and your port engine works, then you might consider taking the solenoid from that engine, to use on the starboard engine. No need to buy a new solenoid unless you know the other one is bad. If it turns the engine over, then you know that it is the solenoid. You can buy one and replace it yourself and probably save a little cash! Remember to take your negative battery leads off first before any electrical work.
If it does turn out to be the starter, then I'd ask myself why it went out again after just replacing it?.....most likely why to burn up a new starter, is if when the engine starts, the solenoid doesn't let the starter disengage from the motor. It would be hard for you to hear in the boat, under the engine cover and the noise. If it was in a car, you'd hear the grinding noise.

 

[xXxBurnStuffxXx]

yeah i cleaned the connections.. still didnt turn over... but there was a more pronounced click. so yeah im gonna try to get in there. do i need to disassemble anything to get to the starter.. because when i looked it was wayy too cramped in there to possibly even get it out.

 

[seadoosnipe]

check your solenoid first!

I just re-read your thread, it's your port side engine!...that's a plus...the starter should be a little easier to get to. I also just read up on your electrical system. You don't have the conventional solenoid that I thought....and one other point of interest. You do have a ground cable that is attached to your starter. It's used to ground the entire electrical circuit. It's an M8 size bolt and should be on the side of the starter, where it bolts up to the flywheel. If you can't easily see it, trace the ground from the battery, down to the starter with your hand and if you can feel out where it bolts to the starter housing, wiggle it and see if it moves. If it does, that needs to be tightened up!...I hope that's all it is.

 

[xXxBurnStuffxXx]

yeah.. im not very sure on how to test the solenoid either.. so =/ so yeah.. if you can run me by that procedure. by the way thanks alot for your help. ive posted on several forums and i havent had anyone even reply... let alone run me thru it step by step. thanks!!!

 

[seadoosnipe]

Starter?

O.K...tomorrow, go out and check that ground on the starter like I mentioned in the last post and let me know what you find!

 

[xXxBurnStuffxXx]

nope its on there tight

 

[D 5UPE]

Sorry to but in Louis,
But does the positive cable running to the solenoid heat up by any chance.

If it does you could have a jambed starter or the positive cable could have a weakness in it.
Let us know how you get on.

 

[D 5UPE]

Another thing to try before turning it over.

Remove the plugs and try turning it over.
Your motor could have locked up............water in or siezed.

 

[xXxBurnStuffxXx]

as in... manually crank it? if so.. then yeah it moves

 

[seadoosnipe]

O.k....next trick!

Sorry to take so long, but I've been on night shift the last few days and it's catching up with me.
I've been looking at the electrical system and you do have Solenoids. One for each engine. This is what you need to do next.
1.Identify the electrical box for the port engine. Look at the positive
cable and trace it up and into the box. Take out the retaining screws
on the cover. When removing cover, it may feel stuck, there's a
rubber seal to keep it water tight.
2.Identify where the postivive end of your cable is coming into that box.
That lead should terminate at the solenoid switch. On the other side of
solenoid is the positive lead going to your starter's positive side.
3.To test the solenoid, you need 2 screw drivers. Doesn't matter phillips
or straight head. With a screw driver in each hand, put one screwdriver
on each cable end. Cross the screwdrivers into each other to make
metal to metal contact.
4.If the solenoid is bad, the starter will turn the engine over. Replace
the solenoid with an OEM solenoid. If the engine still doesn't turn
over, then the starter is bad.
5.If the starter turns out to be bad, I'd talk to the mechanic who did your
work, there is usually at least a 90 day warranty on them. Before we
go any further, do the above steps and holler back at me. If for some
reason, things don't look like what I've described to you in the electric
box, holler back at me before you go any further.
BTW, don't try and start the engine, just touch the screwdrivers together long enough to hear the starter either turn over, or do nothing. .........let me know what happens!

 

[xXxBurnStuffxXx]

alright.. im not really sure what to do.... so i just took a picture of it.

now what exactly do i do from there? i crossed it like you said but all i saw was a spark so.... =/

if you can make in like paint what exactly to cross then please do...

 

[seadoosnipe]

Nice shot!

O.K....Your solenoid switch is on the left side of the box and your coil to your spark plugs is on the right. I see, what maybe signs of hot wires on the plug terminals. While you have this box open, check the plug ends and look for overheated wires and if you can, clean the terminal ends.

I've touched the photo up and put red lines on the two wires for you to bridge. Remember, do this as briefly as possible to see if the bendix engages the flywheel and turns the engine over. DO NOT try to start the engine. Also, the small plug I have marked on the photo, that is coming from your start swich, so it would be a good idea to disconnect it to keep from back feeding on that switch.


You may have to save the file on your computer then enlarge it. I'm better at motors than computers!...LOL...The electrical box is the one I was looking at in the manual and looks just as I thought it would. The two large diameter wires, one from your battery, the other to your starter are the ones you want to briefly bridge. Let me know what your results are!

 

[xXxBurnStuffxXx]

.. yeah i did what ya said and nothing happened

 

[seadoosnipe]

Wow!

O.k., then that means the starter is bad. When you crossed the post on your solenoid, did you get a spark, or could you be sure you got electrical contact?........both, negative and positive battery connectors were on your batter and your battery is hot, correct?

If all the above is correct, then you should go back to where you got your starter repaired or replaced and ask the mechanic about the starter. Like I said earlier, there is usually a 90 day warranty at the least. I know if you took this to the shop for repair, it didn't come cheap.

Taking out the starter in the twin engine is difficult, with it sitting right on the bottom of the engine. There are three M8 nuts holding the starter on, 2 at the flywheel casing and one on the back of the starter holding it tight to the engine block. You will have to remove the air breather assembly, that must I'm pretty sure of, that will at least let you get a look. A mirror and flashlight will also let you get in for a better look. But I'd sure check out with that mechanic too!.......
Louis

 

[xXxBurnStuffxXx]

no.. i didnt get a spark. i think it heated up a little but im not sure how hot it is supposed to be.

 

[seadoosnipe]

Heat?

O.k.....if you touched the two screwdrivers together and they got a little warm, then you did make contact with the positive side of your starter. If it didn't do anything, then it is either bad or you aren't getting a good ground to the starter.......
I think you might talk to the mechanic that replaced it for you. I did look, you can see your starter and quite possibly pull it out if you remove the air breather and use a mirror and 1/4 inch drive socket set and a universal joint.

 

[xXxBurnStuffxXx]

yeah i think im just going to talk to the mechanic... i dout i can remove the air breather.. ive tried and didnt get too far.... i think this project is just way to hard for me. maybe if the mechanic has to come back out i can watch him.. i learn stuff alot better that way. but thanks soo much for your help man.

 

[seadoosnipe]

O.K!

Sorry I couldn't have been more help to you on this issue. Since you had just had the starter replaced, I was betting on it being your solenoid. If it turns out to be the starter, then I'd want to know why, just after putting it in, why it went bad again? Was it a defective starter, or could the solenoid be holding the starter engaged once the engine is running and you lifting your figer off the start button. I'm sure with the engine noise, you wouldn't hear the starter still being engaged.

Due to the fact that you and I have gone through all the steps of testing the starter and solenoid, I'm going to close this thread. Please, if you have anymore questions on this issue, re-post or send me PM. I'd love to hear from you again if you or your mechanic determine what the problem was. Thanks for using the seadooforum.