Oil Types - Sea Doo 951 Engine

[SabrToothSqrl]

So what oils is everyone running in their 951 engine?

I run only sea-doo XPS full synthetic.

Any other options? Please list pros/cons.

 

[Dr Honda]

nope... that it for that engine.

 

[TheChad]

I have a 787 engine, I run Mystik JT-4 Full Synthetic.

It's only $20/GAL vs $40-$55/GAL that XPS costs and has the same API-TC Low Ash Full Synthetic rating.

I see no reason to make BRP's pockets bigger.

Pro's of Mystik:
- Cheaper (In many cases it's 1/2 the price)
- Same exact quality/specs
- Available at many retail stores & online

Pro's of XPS:
- It's OEM
- Possibly more available (If you have dealers near you)

Con's of Mystik:
- Not as available as XPS (Not yet anyway)

Con's of XPS:
- EXTREMELY Expensive (In many cases 25%-50% more)
- You have to buy it from a BRP/SeaDoo Dealer


-TheChad

 

[Rampage]

I have a 787 engine, I run Mystik JT-4 Full Synthetic.

It's only $20/GAL vs $40-$55/GAL that XPS costs and has the same API-TC Low Ash Full Synthetic rating.

I see no reason to make BRP's pockets bigger.

Pro's of Mystik:
- Cheaper (In many cases it's 1/2 the price)
- Same exact quality/specs
- Available at many retail stores & online

Pro's of XPS:
- It's OEM
- Possibly more available (If you have dealers near you)

Con's of Mystik:
- Not as available as XPS (Not yet anyway)

Con's of XPS:
- EXTREMELY Expensive (In many cases 25%-50% more)
- You have to buy it from a BRP/SeaDoo Dealer


-TheChad

Wher can I find Mystik?

 

[TheChad]

Wher can I find Mystik?

Acadmy Sports, Farm & Fleet, Rural King

Those are 3 place I know for a fact that carry Mystik JT-4 PWC/Snow Mobile oil. All sell it for $20/gal.

If you don't have one of those stores near you, then you'll have to try and track some down..

Visit the Mystik Locator to see who sells Mystik products. You may be able to find one of the listed dealers in your area that might be able to order it for you, especially if you are willing to order it by the case (4 Gals).

If all else fails you can order it from the Mystik Store (Mystik Direct). However it'll be a bit more expensive. Still cheaper then any other API-TC rated oil out there. If you order it by the case from Mystik direct, it ends up about $30/GAL +/- depending on where you live from where they ship.

I forgot to mention that the Mystik JT-4 PWC & Snow Mobile oil are the exact same, I have contacted Mystik and they said the only difference is the label for marketing. So if you can't find the PWC label but you see the Snow Mobile JT-4, you can buy that.


-TheChad

 

[dsw222]

I have a 787 engine, I run Mystik JT-4 Full Synthetic.

It's only $20/GAL vs $40-$55/GAL that XPS costs and has the same API-TC Low Ash Full Synthetic rating.

I see no reason to make BRP's pockets bigger.

Pro's of Mystik:
- Cheaper (In many cases it's 1/2 the price)
- Same exact quality/specs
- Available at many retail stores & online

Pro's of XPS:
- It's OEM
- Possibly more available (If you have dealers near you)

Con's of Mystik:
- Not as available as XPS (Not yet anyway)

Con's of XPS:
- EXTREMELY Expensive (In many cases 25%-50% more)
- You have to buy it from a BRP/SeaDoo Dealer


-TheChad

He asked about the 951 not the 787 though...

 

[TheChad]

He asked about the 951 not the 787 though...

Yeah, I know.

Doesn't really matter though. Both the 787 and 951 have the same oil requirements spec'd by BRP/Rotax. So the answer is universal for both.

-TheChad

 

[djredman99]

So, from my gathered knowledge from here and elsewhere, you have 5 options:

1. BRP OEM XPS synthetic
2. AMSOIL Interceptor
3. AMSOIL Dominator
4. Quicksilver API-TC Synthetic
5. Mystik JT-4

Mystik is certainly the cheapest. Perhaps being so new to the market, they are trying to grab a fair share of it. This is a Citgo oil.

AMSOIL has a lot of backers in the sport and can really only be gotten directly from AMSOIL. (AMSOIL has a lot of backers in a lot of motorsports) The Dominator is their "racing" oil for high RPM engines. Both are essentially the same price. You can buy a $10 preferred AMSOIL membership 6-month membership and buy either Interceptor or Dominator at $29 per gallon + shipping. Membership has to be renewed once a year and is $20.

Quicksilver can be found at your local Wal-Mart (not all, typically around water locations only). I believe the last time I checked prices, this was ~$35 per gallon + tax. I never looked online for this oil, so you can check prices on your own. Post if you find some good prices.

XPS...no need to elaborate here other than its usually the most expensive unless you find a great deal.

 

[djredman99]

Wher can I find Mystik?

Mystik is big in the Mid-West since they do alot of hydraulic fluids/oil for farm equipment. Being in Florida, you may be hard pressed to find a local dealer.

 

[Rampage]

I found one all the way up in Tampa.....so a hour drive there to get it, I am actually going to spend more on it then if I just get the quick Silver.

 

[SabrToothSqrl]

Yea...

That's a lot of choices... Personally, I've run the sea-doo oils since '93. If anything fails I know it wasn't because I used a different oil... for two ski's that were $7,000 new and engines that are $1300 each for a rebuild... my preference is the extra $20/gallon...

I burn (at most) 5 gallons a summer... that's a $100 difference... that's 12 years of cheaper oil to make up for 1 blown engine...

Not that the less expensive oils can't protect as well, or are not possibly better in some respects... but this isn't a $40 printer that we aren't using 'non HP $80 ink in'.... this is a $1000 to $1500 engine... and I've had engine's fail when I was a good 2 miles from shore... Personally... I'll stick w/the sea-doo stuff, I don't want to pay more than I have to for it. But I know its what they said to use (I'm aware they make $ on it)...

But I'm glad to know there are options.


OF these 5 options we have, what ones 'mix' okay together?

ie, if you REALLY want to ride... NOW... and your out of your normal oil... what ones play nice together? does anyone know?

 

[dsw222]

Not that the less expensive oils can't protect as well, or are not possibly better in some respects... but this isn't a $40 printer that we aren't using 'non HP $80 ink in'.... this is a $1000 to $1500 engine... and I've had engine's fail when I was a good 2 miles from shore... Personally... I'll stick w/the sea-doo stuff, I don't want to pay more than I have to for it. But I know its what they said to use (I'm aware they make $ on it)...

x2

My Yamaha ski (converted to premix) gets Amsoil Interceptor, but I stick with XPS for my Seadoo boat

 

[TheChad]

I found one all the way up in Tampa.....so a hour drive there to get it, I am actually going to spend more on it then if I just get the quick Silver.

Then order it from Mystik directly for ~$30/Gal, it'll come to your house and save you $$

-TheChad

 

[TheChad]

That's a lot of choices... Personally, I've run the sea-doo oils since '93. If anything fails I know it wasn't because I used a different oil... for two ski's that were $7,000 new and engines that are $1300 each for a rebuild... my preference is the extra $20/gallon...

I burn (at most) 5 gallons a summer... that's a $100 difference... that's 12 years of cheaper oil to make up for 1 blown engine...

Not that the less expensive oils can't protect as well, or are not possibly better in some respects... but this isn't a $40 printer that we aren't using 'non HP $80 ink in'.... this is a $1000 to $1500 engine... and I've had engine's fail when I was a good 2 miles from shore... Personally... I'll stick w/the sea-doo stuff, I don't want to pay more than I have to for it. But I know its what they said to use (I'm aware they make $ on it)...

But I'm glad to know there are options.


OF these 5 options we have, what ones 'mix' okay together?

ie, if you REALLY want to ride... NOW... and your out of your normal oil... what ones play nice together? does anyone know?

I like how you justify it to yourself, but the reality is you are just trying to convince your self why are wasting money.

Your printer example is NOTHING like this.. Using off brand ink is typically a less quality ink, you are reusing printer heads, etc, etc.

BRP doesn't make oil, as a matter of fact there are only a small handfull of oil manufactures yet there are 100's if not 1000's of different "Brands" of oils on the market, get the picture? For all you know Citgo/Mystik could make XPS for BRP. I'm not saying that they do..

ALL API-TC Low Ash Full Synthetic oil is equal to all other API-TC Low Ash Full Synthetic oil. The only difference you are getting is color and packaging and maybe some marketing. Beyond that you are throwing money away on BS. Justify it any way you like, but the facts don't change.

I'm not trying to sound like a jerk or a smart a$$ or anything, Just tying to get people to realize that their heads are full of BS and false hopes from people like BRP.. The OEM's spend millions on advertising/marketing and training of dealers to push thier OEM brand and basically lie/brainwash the customer to think "If you don't use OEM brand oil you will blow up your engine".

Talk to Bill O'Neal (Watercraft Magic), he will tell you that he's never seen an engine failure caused by a brand of oil. There is no such thing. API-TC is API-TC, there is no "Better quality API-TC"..

I'm sure none of this will change your mind because you have yourself convinced, which I guess if $100/yr buys you peace of mind, then that's worth something to you.

-TheChad

 

[djredman99]

Ok, let's come clean here TheChad...

You work for Mystik don't you :toetap05:


EDIT:

PS. j/k, but if I were you I would call them and request a paycheck, you are putting in the work

 

[TheChad]

Ok, let's come clean here TheChad...

You work for Mystik don't you :toetap05:


EDIT:

PS. j/k, but if I were you I would call them and request a paycheck, you are putting in the work

LOL, Nope.

If AMSOIL was cheaper then Mystik, I'd stand behind that, same goes for Mercury/Quicksilver, etc.

I just try to get people to realize that a Dime is a Dime, a Quarter is a Quarter, a Penny is a Penny and "API-TC Low Ash Full Synthetic" is "API-TC Low Ash Full Synthetic". There is no magical event that happens when you pay 2x the price for an OEM label on a bottle.

That said, It's not always about price. There are many times when an OEM part is superior to aftermarket parts and I use 99% OEM parts. But I am realistic and there is alot of wrong information out there and alot of BS that OEM's have pounded into peoples heads for decades, if I can get even 1 person to disconnect from the matrix and see how deep the rabit hole goes, then I've made a difference. (See the movie "The Matrix").

-TheChad

 

[Rampage]

My local dealer made me believe I had to use SeaDoo oil or the motor would blow up...they brought a tech out to tell me how Seadoo's only work well with Seadoo oil....thats why I had so many questions about it

 

[dsw222]

I'm sure none of this will change your mind because you have yourself convinced, which I guess if $100/yr buys you peace of mind, then that's worth something to you.

I'm sure that you're right and I could be saving money by switching to Mystik or whatever else. But I blew up BOTH of my engines this past summer... If I only have to pay an extra $100 a year to have peace of mind to know that my oil isn't going to cause any engine problems, then I will gladly pay it

I'm traumatized

 

[SabrToothSqrl]

Yea...

The question was;

are there any two or more that mix together?

 

[TheChad]

My local dealer made me believe I had to use SeaDoo oil or the motor would blow up...they brought a tech out to tell me how Seadoo's only work well with Seadoo oil....thats why I had so many questions about it

That's exactly what I'm talking about. This is common practice of dealerships! They know you can't buy BRP's oil from anywhere BUT a dealer and they are your local dealer so of course that's where you'll buy it!

It's total BS. Even the owners manual tells you that "If XPS is unavailable you can subsitute with any High Quality API-TC rated full synthetic oil".

I'm sure that you're right and I could be saving money by switching to Mystik or whatever else. But I blew up BOTH of my engines this past summer... If I only have to pay an extra $100 a year to have peace of mind to know that my oil isn't going to cause any engine problems, then I will gladly pay it

I'm traumatized

WHY did your engines "blow up"? That is the real question, weren't you running XPS? So why would you think XPS is buying you security?

Did the engine's "blow up" due to an oil problem? Old age? Clogged carb(s)? Failed bearing(s)? etc.. That is what you really need to know, because no matter which brand of oil you use it isn't going to make a difference in stopping your engine from "blowing up" again. You are buying false hope! You would be better to learn exactly what caused the engines to "Blow up" and do a better job this time of monitoring what failed.. Buying an expensive oil but ignoring everything else isn't going to do anything for you except cost you more money for oil and still going to "Blow up" your motors again.

I use "blow up" in quotes because very rearly does a motor actually blow up, if the piston/rings wore out that's not blown up, if a bearing on your crankshaft broke and your motor blew apart into 100's of pieces inside, that's blown up.

Anyway, even if you want to stick with XPS, you need to get rid of your false hopes and learn what REALLY caused your engines to fail. Otherwise you will be doomed to the same result..

-TheChad

 

[TheChad]

The question was;

are there any two or more that mix together?

The correct answer is "NO".

However you *SHOULD* be able to mix any brand API-TC Full synthetic with another brand API-TC Full Synthetic with out any issues.

-TheChad

 

[dsw222]

WHY did your engines "blow up"? That is the real question, weren't you running XPS? So why would you think XPS is buying you security?

Did the engine's "blow up" due to an oil problem? Old age? Clogged carb(s)? Failed bearing(s)? etc.. That is what you really need to know, because no matter which brand of oil you use it isn't going to make a difference in stopping your engine from "blowing up" again. You are buying false hope! You would be better to learn exactly what caused the engines to "Blow up" and do a better job this time of monitoring what failed.. Buying an expensive oil but ignoring everything else isn't going to do anything for you except cost you more money for oil and still going to "Blow up" your motors again.

I use "blow up" in quotes because very rearly does a motor actually blow up, if the piston/rings wore out that's not blown up, if a bearing on your crankshaft broke and your motor blew apart into 100's of pieces inside, that's blown up.

Anyway, even if you want to stick with XPS, you need to get rid of your false hopes and learn what REALLY caused your engines to fail. Otherwise you will be doomed to the same result..

-TheChad

I bought the boat with very low hours on it, and its a 97, so that's probably why they went. It looks like it just sat in a garage for years (great condition all the way around cosmetically). One piston melted, and I didn't open the other engine to see what happened in there yet... but its probably similar (signs of detonation). After the first engine blew, I completely rebuilt both sets of carbs... so I don't think the second engine is carb related.

Doc Honda lives by me... I'm going to try to persuade him to check out my cooling and lubrication systems next summer after i get the other engine rebuilt so I know its good to go! :cheers:

And as for "misusing" the term "blow up" per "your" definition... No there wasn't an explosion, but both engines needed to be rebuilt, so that's good enough for my definition. Now you're just nitpicking.