Non starter - sportster le 2003

[undecided]

Hi all, first off I already posted this thread but I'm a noob and posted in the PWC instead of boat section, I looked around and couldn't see an obvious way of moving the post so decided to re-post.

I have a sportster le, 2003 model, the one with the 951(I think that's the correct number, it's definitely a 9-something) 2-stroke engine.

Anyways, at my last outing it wasn't starting on the button, I would connect the lanyard and wait a while, sometimes turning the lanyard and pressing the button at the same time and it would start randomly after a few attempts. I got through the day's boating like this. And I thought I would do a bit of investigating once home, I opened the black electrical box where the coils/solenoid is located and removed the cables and reseated them, thinking it may have been bad contact or something.

It will not start at all now!

I've tried with a new battery, I'm getting the two good beeps when I connect the lanyard, just no sound at all coming from the starter or solenoid when I press the start button which before was at least clicking on every other attempt. The gauges fire up though and the other electrics like the blower are fine..

I tried entering into advanced diagnostics mode by having the selector in neutral, pressing the start button 5 times but I'm not hearing the beeps to signify diagnostics mode is activated....maybe it doesn't work on my model?

Does anyone know what the likely culprit may be from my explanation? I'm a complete beginner with electrics so if anyone can offer some basic troubleshooting steps I can try? I've also connected a multimeter to the start button, it shows some resistance, but I'm not sure if this is a good test, it showed resistance without me pushing the button down. I also opened the fuse box at the front of the engine bay just below the ski pole, the one with like 5 fuses in, they all fine. I was also getting some load clicking noises coming from the black electric box the last time out when It was starting, instead of the motor turning the solenoid or something was clicking every now and again.

On the PWC post some helpful suggestions were to short the terminals on the solenoid to see if the engine will turn, which I will try this evening, is there any other simple tests I can try to either discount or confirm a part is working or not?

Any help or suggestions much appreciated.

 

[undecided]

Ok, I've done as suggested, I put a screwdriver across the terminals on the solenoid and there was a little spark and what sounded like a click coming from the engine somewhere...and that was it, I tried it again a couple of times and nothing, no spark nothing!

I've removed the solenoid and connected a multimeter to the two terminals and there is no continuity, which the manual says is correct.

So does what does this mean, is it the solenoid or is it the starter? Any ideas please?

 

[CaptSteve]

A couple of things to check.
1. Even though you said it was a new battery, try charging it. If that doesn't work, have it load tested. Even new batteries can go bad. It may just need to be charged.
2. If the battery is good, you may have a bad starter. There is a test in the manual for that. The reason I think it is the battery or starter is that you say you are getting a click then nothing. If the battery is weak, or the starter is frozen, they both give that symptom.

If it isn't either of those don't work, post back and we can go from there.

 

[undecided]

Thanks Captain Steve! The battery I've tested with is from my car, same AH as the one that was in there, so it's definitely a working battery. I understand that the solenoid test where you cross the terminals actually tests the starter and not the solenoid, so I think you are right, it must be the starter that is bad....I will check the shop manual now to see how to test the starter and give it a go.

thanks for the suggestions!

I guess the next question is, is a starter repairable or must it be replaced?

 

[undecided]

I'm getting more and more confused with this issue now. I performed the dynamic test on the solenoid as described in the manual, I set the multimeter to measure DC voltage (20v) setting, and connected it to the two terminals on top of the solenoid and pressed the start button....NOTHING registered on the meter...so this would mean the button is not functioning correctly....but why when I tested the solenoid/starter by bridging the terminals, nothing turned(this cuts the button operation out)...I can't believe that I've gone from having a small starting issue to now having a faulty start button and a faulty starter at exactly the same time...my only local boat shop owner is on holiday otherwise I would get the boat to him to diagnose.

I only see one thick red wire going to my starter, and I've seen a couple of manuals for removing the starter, one states that I have to remove the magneto flywheel...but the other manual doesn't state this at all.

So my question now is, is it my starter....start button...or both? The six fuses by the Mpem are all fine...are there any other fuses?
And do I need to remove anything before removing the starter? Please help before I get the shotgun out and fill her full of holes

Thanks

 

[CaptSteve]

Now I am confused. Here is how it should work.
When you press the start button, it sends 12v to the solenoid. The solenoid closes and sends 12v to the starter. The starter spins and the bendix gear move out and engages the flywheel to spin the engine.

When you press the start button, you should see 12v on the two thin wires at the solenoid. This charges the solenoid so that it will pass 12v to the starter. If you do not see 12v on the thin wires when you press start then the start button is bad.

If you see 12v on the thin wire, then check the heavy gauge wire red wire to the starter. You can measure across the heavy red wire to ground and you should see 12v when the button is pushed. If you do not see 12v on the wire going to the starter then your solenoid is bad. (you should also hear a click in the solenoid when is closes).

If you see 12v at the starter then the starter is bad. If you see 12v, but it drops down to like 10v then either the starter is frozen, or the engine is seized, or the battery is bad.

You should also check your ground wires that go to the engine. Make sure they are clean and tight. In fact check all the wires at the engine, battery, and solenoid and make sure they are tight and clean.

If the starter is bad, you can remove and rebuild it easily. Replace the brushes, make sure it spins freely, etc. You can also remove the spark plugs and try to spin the engine by hand to make sure it is not seized.

Post back with what you find.

 

[undecided]

Ok, this making more sense now, I stuck the meter on the two terminals of the solenoid, not the thin wires, so I never tested ti correctly to begin with...so I just need to disconnect the plug that has the two thin wires in them and test these with the meter? but if they are disconnected then how are they receiving voltage from the battery? Are they receiving voltage between the black electrical box and the switch then? As for the ground on the starter, I cannot see this, is it under the starter? I just see the big thick red cable connected to it, is the black ground cable underneath? I will look again and see if I can see it. I can turn the motor by hand when I turn the wheel attached to the drive shaft, so the motor is turning fine. I have checked so far the ground cable on the motor and this is solid and clean, likewise for the solenoid, which I've taken off and then put back on. I will try the tests now and let you know.

Thanks for helping out, the manual test steps probably make more sense to someone with a bit of know-how, i.e. NOT ME but your steps seem straightforward enough.

Thanks

 

[undecided]

Ok, I tested the voltage across the two positive terminals on the solenoid, I got 12V, I now understand what you mean about the two thin wires, the ones coming our of the solenoid...not the ones going into the solenoid, so I tested this and got nothing, I tried three times, once it looked like it went from 0,000 to 0,026 but certainly not 12v so I think the button is definitely bad(or solenoid only?). So I guess testing the starter is a no go since I can't get past the solenoid. I looked for the black ground that is supposed to be on the starter, and there isn't one, I looked underneath, ran my hand under it, could not feel anything, could it be that my model uses the grounding on the engine? The engine ground wire goes directly to the negative terminal on the battery, so that's why I'm assuming the starter doesn't have one on my model boat...guess at best from someone who knows less than nothing about electrics.

So if the button is bad, and I'm getting 12V across the two positive terminals on the solenoid, then crossing these should push 12V to the starter right? But when I cross these I don't even get a hint of a spark, the first time I tried this I got sparks...so what is up with that? I had this boat in the water a month ago and yes the boat was starting when I jiggled the lanyard about(without pressing the button) so something was on the way out...like the button...but why is the starter then not responding to me crossing the terms on the solenoid?
The more I understand...the more my head hurts!

 

[undecided]

I'm still hoping for some more help please, I think I've tested the solenoid incorrectly, do I need to disconnect the little wire on the one terminal and connect the meter to this and the engine ground and then push the button to test?

Does anyone know if the 2003 sportster le need to have a negative cable connected to the starter or does it get its' grounding from the engine ground?

And does anyone know if I need to remove the magneto flywheel to remove the starter?

Also, should I be getting 12V across the two positive terms on the solenoid without pressing the start button? At the moment, that is what I'm getting, and maybe that is why the boat was starting itself without me pressing the button on the last outing, and maybe this burned out the starter? Is that plausible?

Thanks