No start woes

[K Rock]

Hey guys. Trying to get my 2000 challenger to start and have some questions. It's the 240 efi, and it's sat for a bit from the previous owner. I'm waiting for my new starter to arrive, but managed to make the old one work for now. Tested compression and got 100 on all 6. I'm assuming oil injection is good because I was getting oil on the tester and plugs.

I don't think it's getting gas, at first I didn't hear the fuel pump hum and swapped the relay with a generic (see photo ).

Now when I turn the key to "on" she hums for about 30 seconds and cuts off, however I b do not know if it's a pump hum or a stuck pump hum. The drain screw at the base does drain if I pull it, the bleed stem on top of the pump housing does release a time air pressure but no fuel. Any ideas on what I should look at?

I know the engine and bilge are filthy, and I will clean it. I just want to hear this thing run before spending a lot of time on cleanup.

Also can anyone tell me what these wires go to in this photo?

I also have no working deck lights, horn or nav lights, fuel gauge and who knows what else... but I'll figure all that out.

And what's supposed to happen if I hit the "furl pump" switch on the dash?

Thank you everyone for your time and input!

 

[K Rock]

****update****

I removed the fuel water filter. I ternary it looks good, externally it looks like crap.

It has some fuel in it, but very little, could it be I just need to fill it with gas to prime it?? Nothing is ever that easy for me.

 

[Dr Honda]

The system is self priming... assuming it's not just plugged up.

The pump that runs from that relay is just a lift/primer pump. It only works for a short time. Normally it's a "Tick" kind of sound... not a hum. SO... I would take the hose off the top nipple, and see if fuel shoots out. On some models, it only works while cranking.

FYI... while the engine is running... the square pump, mounted to the side of the block (just after the electric pump) is what feeds the system.


SO... if the lift pump is working... take the screw out of the bottom of the vapor tank, and see if there's fuel in it. You can see the brass screw at the bottom of the tank, on the left side of your first pic. It's just a drain screw.


IF... you find fuel there... then check the fuel pressure on the high pressure system. On the top of that tank... there is a Schrader valve. (you can see it next to the rusty regulator body) put a gauge on it, and see what you get. (key on)


****EDIT****

One last thing... the long metal fitting on the bottom of the lift pump is a filter. It's a metal style... and they can plug quick. You may want to take it off and try to blow though it. (and replace it) Personally, I took it off my boat, and I have a large see-though paper filter on it now.

 

[K Rock]

I can't get the hose directly over the pump off, but when I removed the drain plug completely.. some nasty stuff came out. The vapor tank has been removed before and is missing the lower bolt. I'll take it off and open it up tomorrow after work to clean it out. I'll bench test the pump at that time.

If a tick is normal and not a hum, it makes me wonder if the pump is stuck. There is also a broken cable behind it, I think it's the steering throttle advance cable? It comes up from the bottom. The neglect this boat apparently went through is more than I had initially thought.

Thank you for the help so far. I have no doubt we will get it in shape again.

 

[K Rock]

I don't see the long metal filter, is it the large fitting on the "running" pump or should it be on one of the lines to the vapor tank?

 

[Dr Honda]

Its just that 3"long fitting on the bottom of the pump. There's a filter inside of it.

Get a better picture of the broken cable so I can tell.

 

[K Rock]

I have good newe and bad news..

1st the used oem starter arrived today and is in really good condition!

2nd I removed the vapor tank, both mounting bolts snapped off in the throttle body [emoji35] [emoji35]. The I opened up the tank and it smelled almost like paint thinner. Dark brown colored liquid poured out. The pump itself is stuck in the tank and surrounded by sediment so I'm guessing it's not pumping. Also the float with the jet above it, is stuck, the jet doesn't move.

I found a vapor tank assembly with pump from a 250 optimax on ebay for about $85, but I don't think it will work. Any thoughts on complete rebuild kits that won't break the bank, aftermarket pumps or where to look for a good used part? I imagine new would be somewhere about 800?

 

[K Rock]

 

[Dr Honda]

That's ugly. Very old fuel, and probably a little water.

The opti vapor tank won't work on your engine. BUT... there are a bunch of outboards that used that tank. So, search for Mercury EFI tank.

Knowing how expensive they are... I wouldn't give up on it. Get some spray carb cleaner, and start cleaning. You may be able to free up the pump, and get things going. BUT, don't hit the plastic parts with carb cleaner. Some plastics don't like it, and will get brittle.


As far as breaking bolts... I would get some PB Blaster, and hose off the entire engine. It's WAY better than any other penetrating oil... and it may keep you from busting more bolts. BUT, it takes a day or so, of soaking, to really do it's job.

 

[K Rock]

I found the float kit, and body gasket numbers and located the parts online. I would replace the pressure regulator however for $300, I think I'll clean this and reuse it. I see aftermarket pumps on ebay for 70 to 150. And some as high as 400. Obviously keeping cost down is key, but if changing the pump is a must are their any brands I should stay away from?

I work on cars regularly and hit the broken bolts with pb blaster as soon as I had the tank off. Hopefully I can get them with an ex out and not need to drill and tap. I don't expect to remove anymore parts, but was planning after I clean the bilge, to hit the engine and wipe it down with T-9.

 

[Dr Honda]

if keeping costs in check is a key point... then clean and evaluate. Unless the float is broken, and the needle is rotten... I would clean and reuse. I've seen UGLY pumps come back to life... and the regulator may be rusty on the surface, but it's fine inside.


If you find the pump is shot... then there are a few aftermarket pumps that work fine. I haven't had any reports of bad pumps. (aftermarket starters on the other hand are crap)


I find that "Super Clean" is a great degreaser... and fungus/mold killer. Spray it around the bilge... give it 5/10 minutes, and hose it out with water. The crap will just melt out. Do it a few times, and it will be sparkling.

 

[K Rock]

I have superclean, glad to hear it's the stuff to use. The pump doesn't kick on right away, it arcs on the posts when I power it. When it does kick on its a grinding humming noise. Sooo I'll be ordering a pump. The float looks good, I just need to find a way to clean the rust and corrosion off sleeve it goes in so it slides properly

Oh and I think I scored on the starter, it looks really good. Here is the old one next to the replacement.

 

[Dr Honda]

if it's rust in the tank... try CLR. (the stuff they show cleaning coffee pots, and shower heads) AND... get a baby bottle brush at Walmart. Cheap and effective.

Yes... the used starter looks good.

 

[K Rock]

A lot of the crud came out with just a blast of carb cleaner. I didn't have anything on hand to scrub it with but it should take very little effort. I'll grab CLR, meant to get some for other reasons so I'll pour a bit in there. The previous owner kept the gas good with perodic doses of stabilizer, I think this is just the result of what was sitting in the vapor tank for a year or two.

Once I hear it run, I'm going on a cleaning spree. I'm hoping to get the bilge and engine ad clean as I can.

 

[K Rock]

Dr Honda, can you recommend an aftermarket pump brand you've heard good about? There are so many and I really don't want to get stuck on a beach somewhere if I buy the wrong one.