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New to site and have a ton of questions

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Redemption

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I would like to start by saying I appreciate any help you good bunch can give.

Recently I traded for an older seadoo. Shes nothing special, old as hell and I plan to abuse her thoroughly. The purpose of this craft is to act as a ship to shore for my sail boat when I take Catalina trips however she wont be living in the water. I know how terribly hard salt water can be on just about anything it touches. (I am a boat mechanic) But I have never had to work on a seadoo so this is a bit new to me.

So here is the scoop. She is a 1989 seadoo Bombardier yellow engine. The carb appears to be brand new or at the very least it got rebuilt and painted. everything appears to be there except for the spark arrester that goes on top of the carb.
The oil injection line appears to be disconnected however since it was dark by the time I got her home I did not want to go feeling around inside the engine bay to see if they put a block off plate in or if the pump is still there. As the story goes she runs and runs smooth... for about 15 min then dies for seemingly no apparent reason. I have yet to confirm or deny this information however I intend to eventually.

Before I go mucking about in the engine bay are there any tips anyone might be able to share with me concerning anything I aught to look for? what would be a good premix ratio for me to use for testing purposes? where can I find diagrams for the carb? for the oil? for the water pumps? etc

PS fear not I basically traded a couple of cheap guitars I havnt used in half a decade and an inflatable raft Ive never used for it so if its a loss ill live.
 
welcome to the forum
i think that's the 587 engine

when its light, look for a blockoff plate,
you can probably locate a flame arrestor through the used parts section, somebody prolly has one laying around, if its that hard to find you can just put an Aftermarket one on i guess. My brother might have that part but he probably threw it away honestly.
i have the manual in pdf, 25 meg file, can be emailed
not sure if this forum allows the posting of links for download but if mods don't disapprove, i can simply provide you with the link. (below)
mods ? delete this if we can't provide links and sorry in advance
http://www.mediafire.com/?8c0n859153pvn7l
not sure of premix ratio for that motor, the manual will help you there or somebody will chime in.
that will get you started, and i'll let the guys with black stuff under their fingernails help you on the running problem :)
good luck !
 
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Welcome. I have a few answers/info for you...

1) Seadoo's recommended pre-mix is 40:1.

2) DO NOT USE TC-w3 oil !!!! (Regular outboard oil) The Rotax engines need a good API-TC oil to live.

3) The Rotax engines use a Rotary valve. Because of that, you need oil going to the center gears. (It is normally fed by the oil in the injection tank)

4) Because of #3... I would recommend making the oil injection function again. Unlike other companies, the Rotax/Mikuni oil injection is dam near bullet proof.



With that said... the 89 has all of it's own issues. If it is running, and then dying for no apparent reason... I would be pointing my finger at the "Speed Limiter." This little box is in the gray box above the battery, and even though it's name makes it sound like a governor.... it's really your rev-limiter. They are known to go bad. It's not a known bad part... but it seems like they are going out, now than most of them are +20 years old.


The old skis are fun... but they are a wet ride, and not really able to carry 2 adults. If you ware using it to get to your boat... keep that in mind.
 
Exactly what the Dr said...most likely that rev limiter. You can unhook the wire and test it, but keep in mind the kill switches would be disabled.

I have one in stock along with that arrestor part you need.
 
oh outstanding, I was hoping it was something to do with the carb. How would I go about testing the part? that a volt meter test like one would do with bilge switches on boats?

Im going to hop into the shower now and get that doo loaded onto a 4 wheeler and I will check the aforementioned items
 
Ok so I took a look and it appears there is a block off plate, unless my fingers are lying to me and Im feeling her up in the wrong places.

Ive included a couple of photos that might help hopefully someone can identify in the picture below whats the scoop with the two things I have circled? is the one on the right the vent or is that supposed to be hooked to something?
IMG_3506.jpg

I am assuming this is the electronics box that was made reference to correct?
photo(1).jpg

thrown in for benifit is a picture of the top of that carb, looks super clean, along with the plugs. I have a feeling its been worked on more recently that one might imagine.
photo.jpg

so whats the consensus guys? where do I start? try some premix to see if I can keep her running then work on replacing whats missing? Minnetonka4me what sort of price are we looking at for those parts?
 
OK.... In the first picture... the round aluminum part is a fuel pump. The original "Round body" BN carb used an external pump. The new "Square Body" SBN carb in the bottom picture has a built in fuel pump. It's a great swap on the old ski's... but who knows if it was jetted correctly. I've done that swap myself, and I can give you my jetting specs if needed.

The other part circled is the flushing connector. It's the right one for that ski... but someone replaced it, and put the wrong end on. The part I'm looking at is normally on your garden hose. Not a big deal, you just need the other side to plug into it.


Yes... that gray box has some of the electronics in it. That box is normally mounted on top of the battery, and is used as the battery hold down. (That's why there is a tab, and hole on either side of it) The Speed limiter is in that box, and it's behind the voltage regulator. I've had a bunch of people say it's not in the box... but it is. You have to remove the reg to see it.


As Minitonka said... you can test it, by disconnecting it. BUT... DO NOT over rev that old engine. Also, it is part of the "Kill" switch, so you will need to use the choke to kill the engine... AND you will not have a functioning safety lanyard. Personally... I would go out and ride it, and see what happens. If it dies like the the lanyard was pulled, and wont restart until it sits... I would be 90% sure it's the Speed limiter. If it sputters, or looses power... I would be looking at something else. The CDI and coil are in the yellow box on the end of the engine... but the CDI's on a SeaDoo rarely go bad.

On that thought... there is an over temp buzzer in those old skis, and in every single ski I've worked on... it's dead. (too many years of being wet) If it's overheating... that could be a reason it shuts off after a while. It's easy to check the buzzer. Put the lanyard on the post, and in the center of the cyl head, there is a sender with a wire. Take the wire off, and ground it. You should hear the buzzer, loud and clear. If you don't... the buzzer is in the handlebar pad. You can get a replacement for about $9 at Radio Shack.


The final thing for now.... Since you feel a block off on the oil pump... is your oil tank still in the hull, and hooked to the center of the engine??? there should be one hose under the intake manifold, and one on the other side, under the starter. If that's not hooked up... there could be a problem with the rotary valve gears.
 
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Seadoobuddy said:
1st quote...are you talking about your ski or your girlfriend...... :)

The first picture looks like the fuel selector knob...What does the outside of this area look like. The PO (previous owner) may have D/C ed it to run gas all the time w/o a reserve tank option.
Click to expand...


That's the rear of the ski. AND... it's a fuel pump.
 
oh I was talking about my girl my mistake... Ill head back out and check it =)

Ok so the oil tank is still there, however the bad news is its not hooked up to anything they have small wooden dowels jammed in there and clamped down. However I dont see anything that is not hooked up on the motor side, and Im assuming the starter is in the front side of the motor there right?

a bit ago I hooked her up to some jumpers to my jeep and the motor kicked over fairly sluggish so I sprayed some engine start into the carb and got the engine to fire smoothly before doing it long enough to cause any problems due to lack of lube. Seems to fire smoothly.

So apparently they closed up the system (looped the oil vent to the oil intake?) to make it a straight premixed situation? I hear this causes pressure build up issues as well as a lack of lubrication for the lower end. thoughts?
 
ok so im almost positive they looped the two together... I found this line that runs to just under the manifold to the bottom end of the engine under the carb. Both on the p/s of the craft, their two different hoses paired together with a clamp. thats gotta be it right?

1111.jpg
 
Concerning starting from another vehicle. NEVER have the other car running while jumping. Just jump from the battery. If running it could and has jolted the MPEM with extra power and killed the MPEM.

Remember start motor, turn on hose - to shut down - turn off hose then shut down motor.
 
Seadoobuddy said:
Concerning starting from another vehicle. NEVER have the other car running while jumping. Just jump from the battery. If running it could and has jolted the MPEM with extra power and killed the MPEM.

Remember start motor, turn on hose - to shut down - turn off hose then shut down motor.
Click to expand...

While that is good advice... he doesn't have an MPEM, so it's not an issue.


OK... yes, someone has looped the oil hoses. as long as there is oil in it... that will work, but depending on how they did it... the oil level could be low... and if you get a center seal leak... you will suck the oil out of the sump before you realize it's happened. They way you will know, is that the engine will stop running because the gears gave out. The proper way to go "Pre-mix" is to leave the tank in, and those 2 hoses hooked up. Then... keep about a quart of oil in the tank. If the seals are good... the oil will never go down.

Your starter is on the left side of the engine, under the exhaust manifold.

as a final FYI... there are 4 hoses on the oil tank. 1) Vent out the top. 2) feed to the oil injection pump. 3) Oil to the RV gears. 4) return from the RV gears. To go pre-mix, you only disconnect/plug the hose going to the injection pump. Then, remove the pump, and plug the 2 injection nipples on the manifold.
 
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ok of the 4 lines the only one that is hooked to anything is the vent. the two bottom ones on the p/s of the oil tank terminate viat wooden dowel and clamp. the vent is connected and the large nipple on the top of the tank next to the vent line has nothing hooked to it.

I imagine this is a sign that the RV gears are not getting the oil supply they need. I however do not see any lines that are looped or terminated coming from the starter side to the intake side, only hose I see coming out from under the carb is the one that is looped to the top side of the engine in that last photo, and until I get this damn baja bug gone I dont have much garage space to properly pull the motor to inspect. Any suggestions on what my next step aught to be? does anyone have some broken down for dummys diagrams that will help me ensure this is all hooked up properly? Ive checked the net but im having a hard time finding anything.
 
I can't see where the hose is going to in your picture.

BUT... now that I think of it... the yellow engine has the oil feed below the intake, and the vent/return is above the intake. (Sorry for the confusion)
 
does this appear to be right? with the one unlabeled being the rv supply?

oil injection diagram.jpg

no im sorry the unlabeled one would be the vent from the engine to the tank right?
 
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ok so here is a current diagram of how it looks as my best guess goes. There is also another nipple on the block just in front of the carb that runs looped onto the rear side of the carb.... I havnt the foggiest idea what that is unless its a vacuum line of some sort.

vurrent.jpg
 
here is a better picture of what I am talking about my motor is looped in exactly this way on mine what is inside the red circle is looped over to the back side of the carb... why?

Untitled.jpg
 
Redemption said:
here is a better picture of what I am talking about my motor is looped in exactly this way on mine what is inside the red circle is looped over to the back side of the carb... why?

View attachment 11026
Click to expand...



OK... from the pic....

The circle in red is the pulse hose to the fuel pump. It drives the diaphragm in and out.

The loop of hose: the bottom nipple should the the "RV Feed", and it will get hooked to the bottom of the oil tank. The top is the "Return/vent" and it will get hooked to the top of the oil tank. (it's the hose marked 17 in the diagram)
 
ok perfect, sorry for the redundancy there but I wanted to be absolutely sure before I started to pull things apart and install hoses.

I have the RV vent hose installed however I am pretty darn confused about the rv feed line. According to the diagram hose 17 which are the RV feed and vent lines are supposed to be 12mm.The old crappy line that is on the RV feed is much smaller tubing that was at one time that clear hose tubing you buy at Home Depot. It is now stiff and ugly so I will need to get more line for it. Is it faster to pull the carb to get to that nipple or easier to try to feel around in the dark?

Next order of business if the flush out kit which is clearly incomplete is there a ghetto way I can accomplish this for a couple of trial tests before putting money into that item?

Final order of business is for Dr. Honda. If you could please share your carb jet specs for that model carb and engine with my I would be eternally grateful.

Tomorrow I will be working on a rather large Hans Christian sailboat. The owners forgot to turn on the bilge and the boat flooded past the floor boards putting oil ALL over the place so I wont get to test any of this until then at the soonest. Just need a couple more items and a little luck :thumbsup: Thank you everyone for your help thus far.
 
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Minnetonka4me said:
$50 on the rev limiter and $15-30 on whatever airbox parts you need.
Click to expand...

I for sure need the Spark arrestor assembly, (what goes on top of the carb)

Ill know more about the rev limiter after I get an opportunity to run the beast (hoping tomorrow but it depends on how long this job runs)

I am also in the market for a new steering pad cover as mine is torn and gouged, if there is a grey, black or burgundy one I would like to get that as I will be redoing the seat in one of those three colors.

I will be ready to make the purchase/send payment on them by Thursday at the latest if that will work for you?
 
I will dig up the jetting a little later today

If you check out eBay # 360433490560 you will see the fittings you need. It's $15 shipped. OR... since you are in the industry... they are just "QD" fuel fittings. (McMaster has them)
 
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