Need help on removing dual carbs, ‘95 SPX

[AJF22]

I got a free, what I believe is a SPX ski that according to the vin is a 94, but on here I saw a few that mentioned if it has the sponsons it’s a 95.
Anyway it’s fugly as hell, I call it the circus ski. The motor is solid, compression is 155 per cylinder, but the carbs are in desperate need of a rebuild.
Looking at the carbs, I don’t see how I’m supposed to get a wrench in on the nuts holding the carbs on. How am I supposed to get to the nuts to get the carbs off? I was thinking maybe a crowsfoot wrench might work?
I didn’t see in the service manual on how to do it, just tells me about rebuilding the carbs.

Any and all help is greatly appreciated.


Background on this ski. I got it from a production company here in Hollywood where they used it as a prop in some movie. They sprayed painted it, but luckily they didn’t mess with anything else. I have my hands full on this one if I decide to restore it and sand it all down and re-gelcoat it a new 2 tone color.
Here’s a picture of it in all of its yellow, teal, orange, purple, reddish, ugliness.

 

[mikidymac]

Last two digits of the VIN will be the model year.
The engine tag will have the engine size.

 

[AJF22]

Last two digits of the VIN will be the model year.
The engine tag will have the engine size.

Yes it is a 94 for sure according to the VIN. What made things confusing is some people on here and other forums said if it has sponsons it’s a 95, but I’ve also seen 94’s with sponsons.

Where would the engine tag be located on the engine?

 

[burtshaver2021]

See if there’s a tag on the magneto housing

 

[AJF22]

See if there’s a tag on the magneto housing

Thank you.

As for as removing the carbs, do I need to remove the rotary valve cover just to get the carbs off? Seems like extra work and big chances on F'ing up the timing.
In the shop manual it only says, "Twin Carburetor Models Only. Remove screws and lock washers retaining carburetors. Remove carburetors from intake manifold."
As of now I have yet to take off the carb screen (housing arrestor) to get a better look, but just in case it only see the nuts on the manifold, how can I get these carbs off?

???

 

[burtshaver2021]

Thank you.

As for as removing the carbs, do I need to remove the rotary valve cover just to get the carbs off? Seems like extra work and big chances on F'ing up the timing.
In the shop manual it only says, "Twin Carburetor Models Only. Remove screws and lock washers retaining carburetors. Remove carburetors from intake manifold."
As of now I have yet to take off the carb screen (housing arrestor) to get a better look, but just in case it only see the nuts on the manifold, how can I get these carbs off?

???

What motor is this? I’ve never worked on a 657 or 587, only 717’d and 787’s. No need to remove rotary valve cover on the 717 or 787 but if you need to remove it, it won’t cause you any timing issues unless you remove the actual valve, but removing the cover won’t cause it to go out of time.

 

[mikidymac]

Pull the airbox. No reason to mess with it on and worry about what might be under it.

 

[AJF22]

Thank you for the comments. I looked around on Google today and found a few random posts that said Rotax recommends to take off the rotary valve cover to remove the nuts on the carbs to get them off of manifold. It gives a bit extra room to swing a wrench.

But first I’m going to try my luck with my crowsfoot wrench to see if that will work. I’m not sure it will work, it’ll probably be slow going, but worth a try.

Motor is 649 (650)

 

[burtshaver2021]

Thank you for the comments. I looked around on Google today and found a few random posts that said Rotax recommends to take off the rotary valve cover to remove the nuts on the carbs to get them off of manifold. It gives a bit extra room to swing a wrench.

But first I’m going to try my luck with my crowsfoot wrench to see if that will work. I’m not sure it will work, it’ll probably be slow going, but worth a try.

Motor is 649 (650)

Post a few pics of the steps to get them off

 

[AJF22]

I’ll probably start working on it in the next few weeks and I’ll take some pictures then.

From my reading, on the cover there’s 4 bolts: 2 on the top and 2 on the bottom and the bottom ones can be a pain to get off.

Because I can’t see this being the best way I went out and took some pictures of the carbs and noticed on the manifold 2 Allen head bolts (maybe a 3rd) which I’m assuming are holding the manifold on. I’m not sure if this will also remove the oil pump though?
I’m thinking these might remove the manifold and the carbs without needing to remove the rotary valve cover. Not the easiest to get to, but looks easier.

I also could see at one time these carbs were removed and whoever did it, removed the cover by the looks of the paint rubbed off of the nuts on the cover.

Any thoughts?

 

[77Eltigre]

Do not take the rotary cover off to take the carbs off, I did it once by mirror and it was terrible.

Take the air box top off, there should be 8 Allan screws to take the bottom of the air box off. Then use a flat head screwdriver to pry out the flake arrester. Under that there should be 4 bolts to pull the housing off. Then you’re at the carbs themselves. There’s 2 bolts on each carb holding it to the intake. Don’t lose the lock nut washers.

I usually make it a point to have the choke closed right up untill I pull the actual carb bolts

 

[burtshaver2021]

Do not take the rotary cover off to take the carbs off, I did it once by mirror and it was terrible.

Take the air box top off, there should be 8 Allan screws to take the bottom of the air box off. Then use a flat head screwdriver to pry out the flake arrester. Under that there should be 4 bolts to pull the housing off. Then you’re at the carbs themselves. There’s 2 bolts on each carb holding it to the intake. Don’t lose the lock nut washers.

I usually make it a point to have the choke closed right up untill I pull the actual carb bolts

This is how the 717 and 787’s are but aren’t the 657’s different?

 

[AJF22]

If you look in the second picture I posted, you can see 1 of 2 nuts (per carb) that need to come off in order to remove the carbs. I have a 01 GS and it's easy to remove the 2 bolts holding the carb on, but these 649's are a pita.
Here are 3 pictures from ebay showing the intake manifold and how the carbs sit on them. I could remove the 6 socket head bolts and take off the manifold, looks to also be a pita, especially the 2 on the bottom. But I assume this is why it's "easier" to remove the cover plate and go from there.
But please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[77Eltigre]

This is how the 717 and 787’s are but aren’t the 657’s different?

Strange, the 657x is put together the same way as the 717. Looking at op’s photos again they’re different.

 

[77Eltigre]

If you look in the second picture I posted, you can see 1 of 2 nuts (per carb) that need to come off in order to remove the carbs. I have a 01 GS and it's easy to remove the 2 bolts holding the carb on, but these 649's are a pita.
Here are 3 pictures from ebay showing the intake manifold and how the carbs sit on them. I could remove the 6 socket head bolts and take off the manifold, looks to also be a pita, especially the 2 on the bottom. But I assume this is why it's "easier" to remove the cover plate and go from there.
But please correct me if I'm wrong.

I thought for sure it would be the same as a 657x I’m way wrong. Your easiest way is to pull the RV cover and work backwards. You shouldn’t mess up the timing because the rv valve sits on the sprocket

 

[AJF22]

This set up for sure makes someone rebuilding the carbs take time in putting everything back together perfectly, double checking, and making sure they are rebuilt properly because you don’t want to have to take them back off.

I found a video of a guy removing everything and he mentioned the hardest part is getting to the 2 bottom bolts, but still you don’t want to do it a second time.

Once I get the carbs rebuilt on this ski I have, I’m now contemplating removing the motor and a lot of everything else, and finding another ski for free that has a blown motor and do a swap. The spray paint on this one is thick and I’m going to be spending a lot of time removing the paint off of everything, then I’ll have to go back over it with primer and a new color gelcoat.

I found a same year SPX in OK condition for free and a XP that is in better shape but with a bad motor for a couple hundred bucks. Reading about the XP and SPX is they’re basically the same with the exception of the motor sizes. Is this correct or is there something else I’m missing?

If so this might be the route I’m going to go as polishing and applying new graphics is less time consuming than having to sand down and repaint everything.

 

[77Eltigre]

This set up for sure makes someone rebuilding the carbs take time in putting everything back together perfectly, double checking, and making sure they are rebuilt properly because you don’t want to have to take them back off.

I found a video of a guy removing everything and he mentioned the hardest part is getting to the 2 bottom bolts, but still you don’t want to do it a second time.

Once I get the carbs rebuilt on this ski I have, I’m now contemplating removing the motor and a lot of everything else, and finding another ski for free that has a blown motor and do a swap. The spray paint on this one is thick and I’m going to be spending a lot of time removing the paint off of everything, then I’ll have to go back over it with primer and a new color gelcoat.

I found a same year SPX in OK condition for free and a XP that is in better shape but with a bad motor for a couple hundred bucks. Reading about the XP and SPX is they’re basically the same with the exception of the motor sizes. Is this correct or is there something else I’m missing?

If so this might be the route I’m going to go as polishing and applying new graphics is less time consuming than having to sand down and repaint everything.

by that time the only difference was the xp had more gauges.

 

[mikidymac]

For the same year, the SPX always had the less powerful engine. 1994 SPX 657 70HP, 1994 XP 657X 80HP. 1995 SPX 657X 80HP, 1995 XP 720 85HP.
Basically the SPX was always the previous year's XP engine.