loose impeller wear ring

[fzandome]

I bought an after market wear ring for my speedster and it just drops right in. I can put it in and out at will. Is there anything I can put on it to "lock" it in OR do you think the hull will lock it in enough so it does not turn with the impeller. The pump body had little or no corrision so I know that it is not oversized. After I called the company, I was advised this happened in the past and they knurled (sp) the outside diameter of the ring to fix the problem. What would you use to lock it in if in the future you need to replace the ring.....

 

[seadoosnipe]

Fit?

I've never seen this before. A ring that spins at will? Have you put the impeller in to see if the clearance is good? You've got a good point, what keeps it from spinning with the impeller when running? The hull? It may if the seal to the hull is tight enough.

You bought this elsewhere? Was it an OEM certified part replacement? If not, I don't know if I'd want to use it.:cheers:

 

[JUST-IN-TIME]

sounds like the wrong one

 

[fzandome]

Bought two for my speedster, The one I put together worked fine, However I must say, after I got them out of the freezer they both just dropped in, no presssing or hammering required. As I think about this now, I'm going to take the impeller out of the one I just did and really try to get it out with my finger to make sure... I tried with the impeller installed, but I could not get a good grip on it.

The inside diameter is fine on both ring as the impeller fit snug with a little rubbing.

As I indicated previously the company had this issue in the past and put some knurling on the ring to make up some diameter issues. They still do this today as I see the process on my rings.

As a side note, they are giving me a new one... free

So if anybody has a substance, other than epoxy that would hold this in, let me know and I'll try it, especially if the freebe has the same issues. (How about "Right stuff")


Next time, I'm going with OEM parts.

 

[JUST-IN-TIME]

sounds like SBT

 

[seadoosnipe]

Not SBT!....

Nope, not SBT....they only sell OEM certified component parts.

I know a lot of people talk about putting the wearing ring in the freezer before installing. This procedure is not quoted in the shop manual. It says to soap it up and lay it on the impeller housing. Use a piece of wood (2X4) and tap it gently in place with a rubber mallet.

I've replaced several wearing rings and have never put it in a freezer.

As far as finding something to grab and hold it. I think instead of a glue type substance, I think I'd try a 100% silicone and let it cure for at least 48 hours before putting it in the water.....:cheers:

 

[JUST-IN-TIME]

well sbt factory certified, ya well i have seen my fair share of bad parts from them

i have repleced more than my share of wear rings
never used the freezer either

i would not glue it it either

 

[wayne99]

Do not put that wear ring in. return it and get a new one. You should have to use a 2X4 and have to tap it evenly in and it should never spin.

 

[seadoosnipe]

Glue.......

I don't recommend glueing the wear ring in the pump housing. I only suggested you use silicone because if your intent on glueing, the silicone would let you remove it for future replacements. If you used epoxy, you'd end up replacing the entire housing.

As for SBT OEM certified. I've used them for 4 years now, mostly on Yamahammers but have never gotten one part out of specification. I do know, from experience with the distributers over the phone, if the part you receive is not in tolerance specifications with OEM, they will replace it with a new one. I'm not saying that mistakes can't be made, they can. I'm only saying that they will at least back up their claim of guarantee......

The core charges are usually the number one complaint. You'll see a member that has blown and engine, busting out a piece of the casing and being charged extra for lack of a usable core. This is common but if you read their core policy before ordering, you'd see that in writing before you order.

The moral to the story is: Always read instructions, contracts and return policy before purchasing anything. And when at a Seadoo repair shop, always ask for an estimate and when given, specify that they not go over a certain limit and if possible, ask for the damaged part. It would be best if your taking it in for a specific reason, that you scribe a mark on that specific part so they don't charge you for something they did not do. They can tell you they did and show you a part but that doesn't mean it came off your engine............:cheers:

 

[fzandome]

Since everbody guessed it, is was a SBT part. It does not look at all like the OEM.... It's some type of solid hard plastic, the OEM has two different materials.... a core of hard white material with a black cover of some type. (My pumps were never overhauled so they are original See Doo parts.)

As for the freezing, that will reduce the diameter of the ring (contract) for easier insertion, After it gets to room temp, it will expand and tighten up on the housing. Freezing the ring will not permantly effect the outside diameter after everything normalizes.

If you have a very tight ring, I think you can go one step farther and put the housing in an oven and take it up to 135 degrees and expand the bronze and drop the frozen ring in there. Now if there was a way to get the old rings out easier, that would be the ticket. Although this loose ring would make that job easier too.

After this post, I took the other impeller apart and check if I could get the ring out....It did not move.... that said, I don't know how much friction is on it, as it also dropped right in when the ring was cold. Interested stuff.... I will be upset if I have issues with this next spring. Chock up to experience.

 

[seadoosnipe]

White ring?

Is the ring white-ish in color? If so, this is the ring for the new model pumps, usually on the 4-TEC engines.

I've bought most of my wear rings through SBT. They are OEM from Riva motorsports, my only source for parts (except for parts they don't have). A very well known and firmly established parts distributer. SBT does have a good guarantee. I have never had problems in the past with them when contacting by phone. I would not put this ring in if it doesn't fit. I would contact them and tell them that the only way it will work is if you put it in with glue, due to the size. If they do not honor their warranty, I hope I am the first one you tell.........

I know the concept with the freezing and I know many do it, I've just never had the need to do it. But, it works. I do put my bearings, wrapped in tin foil in the oven. :cheers:

Let us know how you make out.....

 

[fzandome]

Yes, it's a white ring

As I indicated on my previous posts they are send me a new one free BUT if that one is also an issue, I going to another source. At the time I ordered these rings, I also ordered a impeller shaft. that come through with nicks on the seal riding surface and there was a gap on one side of the insert. ( It looks like the seal riding surface is actually a sleeve that is pressed on to the shaft.) They are going to replace that but you know, returning parts cost money so sometimes it's better to pay more initially and get the "real deal".

 

[seadoosnipe]

4-tec?

Did you order online or phone? That ring is for the newer pumps that you see on the 4-TEC's. It's not for the 1995 axial pump. I wonder how that mistake was made.

I'm going to open a thread as a sticky for members to express themselves with online or mail purchases. I think it's a good idea for members to communicate to each other on how has what and who's selling parts less than what Seadoo recommends. I hope you look for this thread and post your experience.

I know there were was another major player in the online parts distribution a year or two ago but were bought out, either by Babbitts or SBT.

I hope you get the correct ring this time.........:cheers:

 

[fzandome]

Ordered by phone. Here is what the invoice indicated 78-101-02. Here is the link to that Ring.

http://www.sbtontheweb.com/Merchant...e=78-101-02&Category_Code=78w&Product_Count=0

Is the millimeter of the 4-TEC pump close to the MM of mine? Working from memory I think it's a 144mm.

If the ring was .002 or .004 thicker is would be tight as the knurling is scrapping the side of the housing so I know it's close. I just stuck a 6 inch piece of paper between the body and the ring and it snugged right up.. So we are not talking a lot here.

Will continue when I get the other ring next week as they are shipping on monday.

 

[seadoosnipe]

Oem....

It's a match to our OEM part number but it's not the one I've been getting from them. I have bought maybe, .......8 or so and all were like the one you describe. Our original ones have a hard inner liner made of a teflon type material coated in a heavy rubber.

I'm getting off work in a minute or two so I don't have enough time to boot up my flash drive and check the sizes, but I will do it for you when I get home.

In one of your post, they said you are suppose to tap it to roll the edges over. This is not the procedure that is quoted in the manual or the way I have ever done it...........so,

I'll probably call SBT on Monday and talk to a guy I've done some business with in the past and ask "what's the scoop with this new style wearing ring"...? .........:cheers:

 

[fzandome]

I just received the replacement ring this afternoon, same problem. I'm going to return the two rings., get my money back and order from someplace else. Hopefully the one I already put in will not cause issues.

ps Just ordered from riva, Cost more, but if it works great. Hope it's not the same manufacture at a higher cost.
Frank

 

[fzandome]

The "new" ring from RIVA arrived today and it looks like the original one. It was very tight to install, even when it was in the freezer for a couple of hours. Another thing I noticed is the inside diameter is tighter. You had to make sure the impeller was just so to get it in. That was not the case with the one from SBT. All and all, I will only get replacement rings that are identical to the original OEM from now on..

Live and learn

 

[fzandome]

I bought those "new" cones from E-bay... Good deal compared to what was available on other sites. End of year? Anyway the pumps are back together and ready for boat install.

 

[seadoosnipe]

Great work!.....

That's great to hear!.....I'm happy you were able to find the correct one. I too have never frooze my wearing ring. I don't use any lubricanct except the soapy solution the shop manuals recommends. I use a 2X4 layed on the top and gently tap it evenly to get it in. I have never used any kind of silicone sealant to hold it in place, though I don't think it will hurt anything either.

I have used SBT a lot. I'm surprised that they screwed your order up, not once but twice. I would love to call them to find out what's going on but they are so huge, I'm sure they could care less. Last year, they bought out the only other real company that was their competitor. I wish I could remember their name but anyway, now with them out of the way, I guess they don't have to worry so much about pleasing all their customers.....:cheers:

 

[Dennis]

S.b.t.

They have bought out Shortblock U.S.A. and P.M.C.
I used to use P.M.C. reman engines and really liked them. I hated to see them get bought up.
DAWG

 

[fzandome]

I also bought two of their drive shaft carrier assy. (The one with the grease fitting that is mounted on the hull) One of the assy fit on the drive shaft, the other would not go on. I forced it a little and it was so tight the driveshaft would not turn.

The metal part of the rear seal was undersized. I could not push the drive shaft through the unit. Since I was working at the bench, I tried both ways and it always stopped at the rear seal. The rear seal looked like a different manufacture to me as it had a raised lip on the metal. the one that fit was rolled. (I'm glad I figured this out on the bench and not as I was putting it together on the boat.)

Called them and they are sending me another..... Glad it's not summer and have plenty of time. This will be the third time I send something back to them. (From one order)

1) the wear rings.... two of them.... fixed by using another manufacture

2. impeller shaft..... had dings on the seal riding surface and the seal riding surface, a sleeve, was manufactured with a taper....after it was pressed on the shaft, it touching on one side and had about a .002 gap on the other side. Replace by SBT.

3) Now this bearing carrier assy.

They were very helpful on the phone and replaced all items, One thing that is an issue is they were never able to send my an e-mail through Yahoo. Had to provide another address.... (This happened with different representatives) Wonder how many lost sales they have if it happens to all Yahoo accounts holders.

Strike three.... I would not go back to this company....

Since I never received an e-mail with return information, the first two were on my nickel... I know I could have called back and fixed the issue, but I wanted my parts and who would have thought it would happen so many times.

My lesson learned... postage costs add up, don't absorb these return costs on company mistakes.

 

[seadoosnipe]

That's it Dawg!

They have bought out Shortblock U.S.A. and P.M.C.
I used to use P.M.C. reman engines and really liked them. I hated to see them get bought up.
DAWG

That's who it was....PMC.....I was trying to do my best to remember. They had some good deals too!.......now, they have no competition, so they are starting to screw more and more people!

 

[fzandome]

The photo of the seal below looks like the one I received. The only thing different is there is a raised lip where the driveshaft goes through.... That is where the inside diameter is to tight. The one that works look exactly like this pic. Hopefully the replacement is going to work as I want to get the boat operational.

 

[fzandome]

receiver the new assy today, it fit right on the driveshaft....Hopefully they will use the returned unit and do a little quality assurance on the rest of them.

Again three strikes and you're out, IMHO

Will document how the two different rings work out as the summer goes on.... hopefully no problems

 

[fzandome]

Rookie mistake

Did a rookie mistake this afternoon. Put the carrier bearing on the shaft at the bench to prelub. (Yes the new one I just received) and pushed it all the way past the bearing surface on the driveshaft. (The seal was tight and with a too much force....) Needless to say getting it off was impossible as the driveshaft is not tapered in that direction. Make a long story short, now I need a new rear seal. The front one was OK.....