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Is the 2-stroke dead? I don't think so.

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I have not seen any price drops. It has only been 1 week since we even heard about the spark. None of us have even seen one yet(except [MENTION=1]JoeZ[/MENTION]). I bet next year the prices will still be the same. A new spark is still about $7000 if you want one that will go 50. There is a big difference in the price between a 96 xp/gsx and a Spark. People are getting a little ahead of themselves.
 
LouDoo said:
I have not noticed any significant change in the price of two strokes here, except for the usual end of season pricing, even though the Spark is a hot topic here on the forum I don't think it's had a significant impact on the public, yet. I Emailed my local dealer last week, he said I was the first contact he had about the Spark.

Lou
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Bain Capital holds a $1.4 Billion interest in DOO.TO, last week they increased their position by $223 Million
 
Enrons stock also soared by just speculation of future gains as well. How did that turn out lol. They havent made any profit yet. The key word in that sentence was YET.
 
Seadoos Canadian stock name


Just check the stock history and it has gone down since the announcement of the spark, only a like $0.30 cents. I am sure now would be a good time to invest.
 
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Maybe I'm wrong but I thought BRP was a wholly owned subsidiary of Bombardier Corp., and a very small drop in the bucket. When Bombardier has the worldwide regional jet market pretty much cornered, at an approximate cost of 45-50 million per jet, plus other transportation systems, how much could BRP contribute to the pot?

Lou
 
Brp just went public this year and started out at about $22 a share and now are at $27ish. I am sure it all counts or else they would not keep it. It must contribute enough or they would just sell it off


Looks like Bombardier went public in 1969 though. It looks like they have different ticker names.


Found this a little history
http://www.brp.com/en-us/company/history
 
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Bombardier has been getting killed in the RJ market lately. All the major orders in the last 2 years have been from Embraer and some from Mitsubishi, who is launching a new regional jet sometime around 2017. Bombardier needs to finish their new C Series airplane and get some sales.
 
KayakNFly said:
Bombardier has been getting killed in the RJ market lately. All the major orders in the last 2 years have been from Embraer and some from Mitsubishi, who is launching a new regional jet sometime around 2017. Bombardier needs to finish their new C Series airplane and get some sales.
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That's not DOO.TO though, right?
 
No it's not. Same umbrella though. Not sure how all their divisions are split up with stock etc. I'd be interested to find out though.
 
I think the Spark itself will have more of a direct impact on the used 4 stroke market at least to some degree, than it will on the 2 stroke, with maybe the exception being the high end two stroke market, perhaps the early 2000's models where the asking price was still in the 3K range, buut honestly, I've seen that market (at least here in FL) start to tail off over the last 18 months anyway, I actually thought it was good news, with or w/o the spark, since it means you can get more for less these days.

But I'm still convinced it will be the 03-07 used 4 stroke market that will suffer some pricing impact,but only so much, since your comparing apples to oranges in many ways.
 
manolocross said:
The two stroke is not dead yet!! Love my 2 smoker!
4.png
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They dont die they just end up in my driveway

246.jpg
 
KayakNFly said:
No it's not. Same umbrella though. Not sure how all their divisions are split up with stock etc. I'd be interested to find out though.
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They are no longer associated and are completely separate companies as of 2003.
 
Coming from someone thats just into ski's I would have to say I don't like the looks of the Spark either. I have voiced this on another thread but it's not just the spark its every sea doo made in the last few years. I just don't get the angles and corners on a boat. That being said I bought my first ski last summer which was an older 2-stroke. Didn't even consider a newer one because of the cost only. Would buy a boat for that price. But I said that in the last 90's as well. That's being said I think it would be nice to have a second, smaller ski. If I were in the market I would consider a spark but wouldn't hesitate buying another 2-stroke. If a used one is 2k then yeah its only another 3K for a new one with warranty. But what about after that warranty ends? I'm sure just about any repair on a spark is considerably more expensive then an 15 yr old ski. Plus I would have 3k to repair anything on the 2-stroke. I know a lot of people do it with many different things but I have never been one to line up to buy something just because its the latest and greatest. Personally I would rather give it a few years to work all the bugs out. And I assume, like every other type of "toy" out there, there will be tons of folks that buy these, ride them a few times, park it then sell it because they "thought they were going to enjoy it. Plus we all know how competition works...I'm sure both yama and kawi are both working on their own versions. I'm sure this spark announcement was not as much surprise to them as it was us.
 
You bring out an interesting point about the warranty, in most parts of the country a one year warranty is really just 4-5 months at best.

Lou
 
My thoughts are this...next summer will be about the same as far as restored skis, but in 1-2 years if the spark shows durability and they sell a ton, it will greatly affect the 2 stroke market.

The forum is typically not a good gauge as most of us have some mechanical ability. Its the people that are clueless that a new machine with a warranty at that price vs say one of my fully restored 97 GSX for $3g... I know which one I'd go with if I had the $$ and was clueless.

Im sure every year they will get more powerful and faster...thats an easy one to see.

As far as looks...I know its more about making the top lid more rigid. I could take it or leave it.
 
JoeZ said:
They are no longer associated and are completely separate companies as of 2003.
Click to expand...

My wild guess is, Bain Capital had something to do with that. A private money phenomenon, buying a division of BRP that BRP was liquidating, b/c BRP was likely struggling and needed to sell something.

PURE GUESS.
 
I love my x4's and will always love the watercraft of the century xp. Gsx is another reason for a lot of us here I know and don't forget the rx rxx.

Glad Seadoo is being the innovator and hope it works out with the Spark. Looks fun but I like the smell of the inside of my hull too much for all this warranty jazz. Look is far too transformerish for me but I'm sure it will grow on me, seems like a great mechanical design however. And for $5-7k(great to see these prices again) it's hard to lose even if the spark does flop. I don't like the 90hp but the 400lbs is great to see. I like to wrench (which not many do) so when I can have 2 SPXs for well under $5k I'm all 2 stroke. Wonder how it would handle wave jumping? I'm sure it can handle but I want reviews before I indulge. I hope the spark does great and for a second I was almost jealous, which seadoo has not done for me since oh yeah the 2 stroke days (rxp excluded) marketing is so far so good but I want rider review.

On that note. Took the spx and a buddy's 01 xp to new buffalo MI this past weekend for some 8foot choppers on Lake Michigan. not to much hi-speed action but some great waves, I actually wanted a helmet for the first time. With a wetsuit it was great, water is still fairly warm,64. It was intense out with 10 mph wind, 6-8 feet waves with chop, 65 degrees and overcast but damn was it awesome. Water with that sort of energy always captures my intrigue, amazing.

2 stroker for life but it sure is nice to see the spark and it's attention being given to the whole 2-stroke generation. Hopefully seadoo will keep up the smaller and cheaper concept, it's about time for a smaller doo under 10k.
 
The 2 stroke won't be dead until the used sparks start hitting the market. When you see used sparks with 150 hours on them going for $2000-2500, that's when the 2-stroke market will crash.
 
who's going to pay $2500 for a used ski when $5k gets you new?

these are disposable lol.

get a 3 year warranty and call it a day.

the 15 year old parts will get more, and more, and more rare... till one day... it doesn't make any sense :(

it may take another 5-10 years, but we are well on the way.

I'd like to see this composite hull in a higher performance ski.

I have and will spend $ on a new ski when it's what I want.

I've ridden the RXPX260. it's a nice ski, it's very... modern, but it's not the throw it around have fun my 02 XP is.
 
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