Idle speed inconsistent + Overheating + Hose collapse

[RoxyGirl]

We have a 2005 Sportster w/ Tower and have absolutely LOVED using it--never had the first problem with it! Such a joy WHEN we take a day off to have an easy day at the lake...until now.

First, as we were idling through the No Wake Zone, we noticed the idle was inconsistent. Once we got into open water & gave her some fuel--after a few tries--it seemed like something "broke loose" and all was good. We cut it short, took her home & went over the electronics, replaced a few fuses, checked the fluids & headed out again a few days later.

Everything seemed fine & we thought she just needed some running. After about 15 mins of putting her through her paces, we got the dreaded loud beep (continuous) + temp light + limp mode. We shut her down, waited about 2 mins, tried starting again & noticed temp AND oil light on. We shut her back down, waited about 30 mins, she started right up & we idled back to the ramp (approx 5 mins).

Now back home, we are looking deeper into the engine compartment & found a collapsed hose. (part #420956970)

It's taking me forever getting through all the postings. "Trying" all the possibilities will take a month of Sundays, so I thought I'd go ahead & post a pic for any of you who might know "Just What This Is!"

What's going on? What do we do? Understanding it could be one or multiple of many possibilities, we're trying to narrow down our approach instead of blindly throwing parts at it.

Thanks in advance for any help!

 

[IPvFletch]

No clue, but perhaps something caused that line (exhaust line?) to go under negative pressure, and so the hose collapsed. Maybe something got caught in the intake grate, which caused the hose to collapse, then it got loose and now the hose is just stuck collapsed? Or maybe the hose melted from extreme heat (also could have been caused by a blocked intake grate).

Not sure if this is the best next-step, but if you replace the hose, I wonder if it would happen again immediately? (if so, there is still something wrong with the setup; if not, it may have been related to one-time-now-gone issue like I mentioned above).

Just a thought, sorry I'm not much more help..

 

[devonte007]

Hey Roxygirl welcome to the forum!

Not sure what your level of experience is with engines and things of this nature but we'll try to help you out here:

First off, sounds like to did the right thing once the dummy alarms went off. By doing so, you most likely avoided any permanent engine damage.

Second, we will need a bit more information from you:

1. What type of engine do you have 155hp N/A or the supercharged 215 hp? (Looks like you have the 155hp version from the picture)
2. You mentioned that the temp and oil light came on. After you shut down the engine did you check the oil level and the coolant level in the reservoir? Were they (or are they) full, empty, etc.
3. When was the last time you had the oil changed and when was the last time you replaced the coolant?

Definitely sounds like the engine overheated, or was on its way to overheating as the alarms came on. Not sure why the oil light came on though, which is why I asked what the oil level was at the time this event happened.

From the picture of the collapsed hose, looks like we are dealing with the engine cooling system (closed loop) not the exhaust cooling system which uses sea water. The hose that collapsed is the return coolant line that goes to the water pump, carries hot engine coolant back to the ride plate. From the looks of things, looks like you might of run out of coolant for some reason. If the reservoir is/was full of coolant then we need to dig deeper. Could be low coolant, improperly mixed or old coolant, stuck thermostat, cooling system blockage, air in the system, etc.

Post back and give us more information and we'll do our best to help.

 

[RoxyGirl]

Awesome! Yes, we are both familiar with car engine mechanics (Hank *more* than me) and Hank is not a stranger to outboard motors. But the jet boat engine is a new experience for both of us. We both knew enough to shut it down ASAP.

1. 155 hp
2. Yes, the oil was fine (and very clean); however, I noticed the coolant level had gone UP. ("Overflow?") The coolant still looked nice & clean, though.
3. We've had the boat for about 1.5 yrs & taken it out *maybe* 6 times. Because the fluids looked so good, we didn't change them. We know all the previous owners pretty well & can find out from the last owner when it was done.

A few misc facts that may/not be instructive:
a) We detailed the boat and, particularly, the engine compartment about 4 weeks earlier. There was lots of Simple Green & water hose spraying going on under there.
b) The first day we experienced issues, when prepping the boat (checking fluids, battery charge, wiping everything down, etc), we saw a big frog in the engine compartment. We tried catching him, but he went right under the engine where we couldn't even see him. I'm just wondering if he made a "family home" in there while the boat was not in use and possibly got into critical areas, causing a clog or something. Stranger things have been known to happen!

We keep the boat on its trailer here at home where we live & work. So I should be available to answer any additional questions or send more pics pretty quickly.

Thanks so much!

 

[BMANN06]

You have likely have a blockage in your closed loop cooling system, or you have hoses connected to the wrong fittings of the coolant pump. If you dig up the cooling/water pump seciton of the parts fiche you can use it to ensure that your hoses are connected to the right fitting.

 

[RoxyGirl]

You have likely have a blockage in your closed loop cooling system, or you have hoses connected to the wrong fittings of the coolant pump. If you dig up the cooling/water pump seciton of the parts fiche you can use it to ensure that your hoses are connected to the right fitting.

The original factory clamps are still on the hoses and this is a new problem; therefore, the "hooked up wrong" idea is out. In fact, before disconnecting the collapsed hose, we're wanting to have a good idea of what specific repair we're going to make partly because we'll have to cut the hose clamps off.

We're thinking it's a bad thermostat but, again, we're wanting to avoid "throwing parts at it." These parts aren't cheap and the closest jet-boat dealer is nearly 100 miles away (= 200 round trip).

Thanks for the ideas!

 

[RoxyGirl]

Hey Roxygirl welcome to the forum!

Not sure what your level of experience is with engines and things of this nature but we'll try to help you out here:

First off, sounds like to did the right thing once the dummy alarms went off. By doing so, you most likely avoided any permanent engine damage.

Second, we will need a bit more information from you:

1. What type of engine do you have 155hp N/A or the supercharged 215 hp? (Looks like you have the 155hp version from the picture)
2. You mentioned that the temp and oil light came on. After you shut down the engine did you check the oil level and the coolant level in the reservoir? Were they (or are they) full, empty, etc.
3. When was the last time you had the oil changed and when was the last time you replaced the coolant?

Definitely sounds like the engine overheated, or was on its way to overheating as the alarms came on. Not sure why the oil light came on though, which is why I asked what the oil level was at the time this event happened.

From the picture of the collapsed hose, looks like we are dealing with the engine cooling system (closed loop) not the exhaust cooling system which uses sea water. The hose that collapsed is the return coolant line that goes to the water pump, carries hot engine coolant back to the ride plate. From the looks of things, looks like you might of run out of coolant for some reason. If the reservoir is/was full of coolant then we need to dig deeper. Could be low coolant, improperly mixed or old coolant, stuck thermostat, cooling system blockage, air in the system, etc.

Post back and give us more information and we'll do our best to help.

The last owner said they changed the fluids when they first got it almost 2 yrs ago, then only took it out 2-3 times.

 

[timeman]

"bad thermostat" idea sounds very plausible....

 

[RoxyGirl]

Can anyone tell me WHERE the thermostat is located in the 2005 Sportster 4-Tec (NON-SCIC)?

I'll sleep a lot better knowing she's back on par.

Thanks!

 

[smc0922]

Definitely time to flush the coolant. I'd bet the thermostat is corroded shut.

 

[BMANN06]

Pics of Water pump and TStat

Here is a couple pics to help you out. Be prepared for a headache ...

The thermostat is in the end, the plastic piece pops off and then you can access it. use a really small flatblade screwdriver and some patience to pop it out.

Hope this helps.

 

[RoxyGirl]

Update

Thanks for the fotos, BMann. That helped a LOT.

UPDATE:

Removed water pump. Hose popped right open. The hose is nice & supple and doesn't need replacing.

Trying to gently pry off the plastic piece & get to the thermostat was fruitless. The plastic was so thin & fragile that every attempt ended in cracks. Water pump replacement is now on the menu. :facepalm:

Regardless, we tested the thermostat. Lo & behold, it *does* open....ABOVE BOILING point. Even then, the process of opening was slow. When running the boat, I'm thinking that even if the thermostat opened--by the time water was able to get through, the temp sensor had already shut everything down.

Bought a used water pump on eBay for $40 w/ shipping; sent the guy a message & he's putting it in the mail today. It should be here by Saturday.

Now I need to get:
fresh coolant
stainless steel clamps
new gasket (The old gasket--being original--is more than likely done.)

FINGERS CROSSED!

Am I missing anything? Something else needed on the shopping list? Any caution flags y'all wanna share?

 

[BMANN06]

Hey Np.

I kinda saw the pump replacement coming though. $40 is well worth the direct bolt on replacement. The gasket is more of an o ring than traditional gasket, generally if you just clean the mating surface on the PTO cover and clean up the o ring you should be okay. Sounds like you've got this under control though.

 

[RoxyGirl]

Condition of Water Pump Indicates?

Pulled old gasket out & it's beautiful. A good cleaning & lubrication and she's good to go.

Looking at the condition of the old water pump made me scratch my head. There's a white residue coating the inside of two orifices (see pics) and then seen in here & there through the rest of the inside of the pump.

What does this indicate???? Is there still another problem lurking?

 

[BMANN06]

Thats generally not a good sign, a good flushing of the cooling system is probably necessary as the white crap can plug a water jacket in the engine block, which may be the originating issue. Up here we have a product called CLR, it dissolves calcium lime and rust stains (hence CLR) anyway if you have a product like that available I would flush the cooling system with it. Then follow the proper guidlines for filling and priming the cooling system. I'll send you a link when I find it.

 

[IPvFletch]

Is flushing the cooling the same as flushing the engine system - hook up a water hose and run the boat a bit?

 

[BMANN06]

Is flushing the cooling the same as flushing the engine system - hook up a water hose and run the boat a bit?

In the 2strokes lake water circulates through the cooling system, in the 4 tec water circulates through the exhaust system to cool it, but the cylinders are cooled by a closed loop cooling system.

 

[devonte007]

Looks like a lot of useful posts above, and it seems that you found the source of the problem; coolant corrosion. Kudos to Bmann for sending the pics of the water pump assembly!

As far as "flushing the cooling system" there is a very specific procedure outlined in the shop manual. You will need to buy special coolant flush chemicals. I believe Zerex has a good one (made by Valvoline), and you can probably get it at most automotive stores. You should follow the instructions on the label, but basically you refill the coolant system with this additive and run the engine (in the water) for a period of time and then drain it, and refill with normal coolant. Not sure of the exact procedure Seadoo calls for so don't quote me on this, I'm writing this from memory.

Not sure if you have a copy of the shop manual, but if you do not I would be happy to forward the section about cleaning the cooling system to you via e-mail as a PDF file. You can also download a copy of the shop manual from this site by clicking on the "manuals' link at the top of the page. If you want me to send you the PDF file, just send me a PM with your email address and I'll send it out to you.

Glad you were able to dig into this yourself for a reasonable amount of money. I was tempted to be lazy this year and not change my coolant (it would be the 3rd season if I just let it go this year) but after understanding what you are going through I am much persuaded to just go ahead and get it done.

Hope everything goes well!

 

[RoxyGirl]

EUREKA!!!

New (Used) water pump ass'y came in today. (BTW: jleeemant on eBay really impressed me with a good, clean part for cheap & it arrived FAST. He did everything he said he'd do & for no extra charge.)

We replaced the coolant, installed the new pump housing & new NGKs for good measure, plus, took care of a lot of little misc chores.
We put her in the lake & did the whole "burp process."

Time to give her a go....
We didn't run her hard, but we ran her enough to feel comfortable that the overheating issue was resolved. She sounded sweet & happy.

Success!
The formerly collapsed hose stayed nice & full.
No dummy lights or idiot alarms. :thumbsup:

Over the past 3 weekends, we've also repaired our gas gauge, speedo & trailer lights.
Next: Another good, solid detail so we can clean up after all that "fixin'!"

It was really nice getting my feet wet today! Can't wait to throw out the rope & crank the volume.

Thanks so much for all the guidance! :cheers: