IBR Not Working and no Fault Codes

[Fallslake]

I am a first-time PWC owner of a 2017 Wake 155 bought about three weeks ago. The first time I took it out on the lake it worked fine. I beached it with onshore wind on a windy day and it was buffeted around on the shore. My buddy, who was familiar with older PWCs without IBR said this was OK, but of course I learned later that beaching under these conditions can cause problems with ibr. When I started it up it was basically stuck in neutral and after changing the battery and trying everything we could, I had to limp home at 2 mph. All fuses are good and can’t see any sand or debris blocking movement of the gate, but it does not budge. In IBR override mode it does not budge either and there is no sound from the actuator, so I think the motor is not even trying to move it. There is no fault code option in the display, so apparently there are no codes but the ibr light is flashing. What next?

 

[skiasylum]

Loose battery cable connections can cause IBR faults. Make sure they are secure.

Check the IBR power fuse and the IBR control fuse in the fuse box.

Connect watercraft to BUDS to check for IBR system or CAN bus related faults.

Visually inspect system connectors for moisture, corrosion, and proper contact.

Check for excessive backlash in gate mechanism.

Pull fuses or disconnect battery. Remove the screws retaining the U-arm to the actuator shaft.. Move the gate up and down by hand to check for freedom of movement.

If the battery cable connections are secure, fuses good, and no obstructions to your gate I would definitely suggest a trip to the dealer. If you want to DIY it a service manual and a Candoo Pro are necessary. The IBR system is complicated and expensive.

 

[Fallslake]

Thanks for your suggestions. The battery connections are tight and all fuses are good. Since the gate is down, I can't get to the U-arm to disconnect it, but the gate does not seem to be stuck, as there is a little up and down play in it. I am a DIYer, but not sure I want to buy a candoo yet. There are no fault codes in the display so would a candoo be of any help? The closest Seadoo dealer is 45 miles away and there are two independent repair people in my town. Would it be better to go to the dealer for service?

 

[skiasylum]

If the local guys have a BUDS system for Sea-Doos so they can read and clear faults you could try them. If not I would head to the dealer. I’m thinking your gate pivots are full of sand from the beach. The IBR system would detect this and turn on the IBR light. Maybe try power washing the gate area to try and remove as much sand as possible from the pivots. You have a active fault if your IBR light is flashing and that needs a BUDS system to read it.

 

[Fallslake]

Thanks again for your help. The gate does pivot a little and it does that freely, with no grinding or visible evidence of sand in the mechanism. The actuator connecting arm is what is stopping the gate from moving. Furthermore, in IBR override mode, pressing the up and down arrows does not appear to actuate the IBR motor, as there is no sound or movement of the actuator connecting arm. I will check if the local tech has the BUDS system.

 

[skiasylum]

Time to get out the hammer, I read on another forum a person with similar problem, gate stuck down, started his ski and tapped the IBR motor with a rubber mallet and it started working.

 

[Fallslake]

I saw that post also and I tried banging on the actuator motor, but to no avail. Unfortunately the local techs are busy until the end of January with winterizations, so I will contact the dealer when they open tomorrow after the holiday. It was baffling to me that the ibr light was flashing, so the computer knew something was wrong, but no fault codes were set that could be read in the display. I suppose the BUDS or Candoo might be able to read the codes at this point.

 

[skiasylum]

Yes only active faults display on the MFD. Inactive and occurred faults are stored in the ECM and both can be read and only occurred cleared with BUDS.
A flashing indicator light indicates there is a active fault. So something is amiss.
My service manual is unclear if a uncleared occurred fault can be the cause of keeping the system shut down until it’s is cleared.

Supposedly any fault code related to the IBR that prevents its proper operation - the IBR will be moved and locked in forward position. (If possible), yours is locked in reverse which may be why flashing Indicator no active fault. I still think it might be gate related.

Also the IBR system is very sensitive to AMP draw. Have your battery load tested.

 

[Fallslake]

OK, I did not realize that the fault code was cleared when I shut the motor off. I just read the fault codes with the motor running and it is indeed setting C2102, "actuator movement, The reverse gate cannot move to the desired position (stuck or motor open)". I think that since this happened when it was beached in the wind, the actuator motor is likely damaged. I will take it to the dealer and report back here the results.

 

[Fallslake]

I took it to the dealer in Henderson, NC today and they determined that the IBR system needs to be replaced. The cost will be $1000, which is about what I have seen in other forums. It could take a week or two

 

[skiasylum]

Bummer

 

[Fallslake]

OK, I got my Seadoo back from the dealer yesterday. They replaced the IBR actuator; The gate assembly itself was fine. The part is available at several sites online for $700, so I guess the $987 bill was not too bad. The actuator is in a plastic case with two covers sealed with a black flexible adhesive and a bunch of T25 screws with coarse threads. The cover with the electrical connector houses the electronics and the other cover houses the mechanical components. I removed the screws and opened the mechanical cover by breaking the adhesive seal with a utility knife. It is mechanically pretty simple. The actuator rod screw is driven by a DC motor with reduction gearing and the rod moves a white plastic lever that probably turns a potentiometer in the electrical compartment that encodes the rod position. I could move the rod in and out easily by turning the gears, showing that there was no breakage. The motor had a burned smell and there was black soot around the fan opening and also on the potentiometer lever, as can be seen in photo 5. The motor is supplied by two yellow wires from the electrical side. I removed these and measured the resistance between the motor connectors and it was several hundred kOhm, so it appears to be burned out. Furthermore, hooking up 12V to it in either polarity gave no movement. So it appears that the motor burned out because the gate was prevented from moving. This is pitiful - you would expect that such an expensive and difficult to service part would be better protected by the electronics so that it would not burn out under too heavy of a load. It should be possible to replace the motor, but googling the the numbers on it, 1070528 and 3S4324 did not help me identify it. I hope this information helps others who may have IBR problems. It would also help if we could find a replacement for the actuator motor.

 

[Rikky001]

If it is a DC motor the stupid thing has brushes. Maybe just the brushes burnt on the commutator. You are that far in stripping the thing, last step is opening up the motor

 

[Fallslake]

Good point. I could not get the motor off of the gearbox to open it up, but I was able to wipe the soot off of the commutator with Q-tips enough to get the motor to run. I need to get it started manually, but it does run weakly and will move the shaft all of the way out. Here is a video of it running and extending the rod.

All of the carbon dust around indicates that the brushes were burned up, but the commutator or windings did not burn, which I think would have happened if it were stuck in one place. This seems to me like premature wear, as the ski only had 34 hours on it. Could it have been a coincidence that it happened when I beached it? Or could there have been too much of a load on it from sand or maladjustment of the gate so that there was too much load on the motor, causing the brushes to burn? The commutator looks sooty but not worn or damaged. I used 12v to run it and the red wire is positive in the video. Reversing polarity retracts the rod.

 

[Rikky001]

Yes, if the brushes are gone don't expect too much torque out of the motor. Root cause might be from too much friction in your gate mechanism, but if that happens it throws alarm codes most of the time. If the commutator is not damaged your motor will be made as new with new brushes. You installed already a new IBR so maybe you are not too interested to fix this one.
These electric motors are pretty much standard sizes, it is just opening and measuring the brush size and order them via Aliexpres as example. (weed cutter motors have similar dimensions) Brushes are very cheap. And as long nothing else is broken you still can keep it as a spare or sell it on Ebay.

Thanks for the effort to check it out.

 

[Fallslake]

Of course I will keep the old actuator in case this ever happens again. I did not get to the brushes. I would need a small gear puller to get the pinion gear off of the motor shaft and a little more disassembly of the housing to get the gearbox apart enough to get the motor out and then hopefully the motor would have screws on the shaft end to open up the case and get to the brushes. I will put that effort into it if I ever need to.

Thinking back on this, I realize that I probably wore out the brushes by repeatedly trying to operate the ski and move the gate using the IBR override. Each time you turn on the ski it has forgotten that the IBR had a fault and it tries to move it, and this is probably what led to the brush failure. The moral of this story is if you do get an IBR fault, DO NOT start the ski again until you have examined the gate area carefully to make sure it can move freely and does not have any foreign objects, including sand or pebbles, stuck between the moving parts, that would hinder movement.

 

[Rikky001]

Sounds good, the motor is most probably a cheap Mabuchi motor, no screws involved, just bending tabs to get to it. They are cheap, maybe 40 USD for a complete motor.

 

[steve gel]

the part your looking for is
Qianson DC 12V-36V 24V 3500-9000RPM 775 Motor Ball Bearing Large Torque

helping this thread.
p.s $12 part

 

[pete165]

Hey guys, first time posting here. I successfully replaced the DC motor in my IBR actuator with the motor that Steve listed above. It was a definite pain in the @$$, but worth it to save 600-700 bucks! It was really rough getting the gear off of the end of the old motor. Had a hard time finding a puller that would work. It took some redneck ingenuity, but I got it back together and had a successful test run. I'd say give yourself a good 2-3 days to do the job start to finish. ..Just wanted to let everybody know that it is possible to change out the motor without buying an entire actuator.

By the way, my symptoms were an IBR fault light and beep on the dash. Once that activated, it would be stuck in forward and would not move to neutral or reverse. Pulled the fault codes and it said that the BRLS (brake/reverse lever sensor) was bad:

c0042 - brake lever sensor brls signals A open or shorted to ground
c0043 - brake lever sensor brls signals B open or shorted to ground

This led me to waste a lot of time checking the wiring and even needlessly replacing the BRLS for $130! Long story long - these 2nd gen IBR's seem to have a lot of problems with motors burning up (as I've been reading on other forums) and the fault codes may lead you down the wrong path.

Started to take pictures, but then got tired of stopping, so this is all I have...

 

[steve gel]

Hey guys, first time posting here. I successfully replaced the DC motor in my IBR actuator with the motor that Steve listed above. It was a definite pain in the @$$, but worth it to save 600-700 bucks! It was really rough getting the gear off of the end of the old motor. Had a hard time finding a puller that would work. It took some redneck ingenuity, but I got it back together and had a successful test run. I'd say give yourself a good 2-3 days to do the job start to finish. ..Just wanted to let everybody know that it is possible to change out the motor without buying an entire actuator.

By the way, my symptoms were an IBR fault light and beep on the dash. Once that activated, it would be stuck in forward and would not move to neutral or reverse. Pulled the fault codes and it said that the BRLS (brake/reverse lever sensor) was bad:

c0042 - brake lever sensor brls signals A open or shorted to ground
c0043 - brake lever sensor brls signals B open or shorted to ground

This led me to waste a lot of time checking the wiring and even needlessly replacing the BRLS for $130! Long story long - these 2nd gen IBR's seem to have a lot of problems with motors burning up (as I've been reading on other forums) and the fault codes may lead you down the wrong path.

Started to take pictures, but then got tired of stopping, so this is all I have...

Did it on my friends sea-doo 2016 130 gti, work like a charm.

 

[pete165]

Did it on my friends sea-doo 2016 130 gti, work like a charm.

excellent! im curious... what did you use to get the gear off of the old motor?

 

[LPO]

excellent! im curious... what did you use to get the gear off of the old motor?

If you don't have a capable gear puller for a 5mm shaft, you can do the following: (You will destroy any cheap puller on this one!)
-Remove rear of motor with flat blade screwdriver
-Carefully hit the rear of the shaft with a hammer through the motor until it's extended a good bit away from the plastic frame
-Cut the shaft, separating the motor from the shaft w/ gear
-Use a heavy duty punch that's about the same size as the shaft, but just a bit smaller
->Harbor Freight part number 93424 has perfect punch for this task, if you don't have anything already
-Place gear over a well secured vise that is opened enough to let the cut shaft move freely, but still supports the gear without clamping it
-Use a hammer and punch to remove the shaft from the gear at this point
->2lb or small sledge hammer will help make this process much easier

Be sure to clean everything, and throw in a massive amount of high quality PTFE compatible lubricant when you do this.
Clean all mating surfaces again before re-assembly, and run a bead of black RTV on the case halves.

 

[pete165]

If you don't have a capable gear puller for a 5mm shaft, you can do the following: (You will destroy any cheap puller on this one!)

Ha thats almost exactly what i did. The whole time i was thinking "there has to be a better way", but i guess not! Thanks again guys.

 

[Crossnysa]

Hi, I'm from Poland and I would like to thank you for all the information.

I would like to know what RPM should the new engine have?

is the diameter and length of the motor shaft important?

Thank You

 

[pete165]

yes it is all important. This is the exact motor that you need: 775 12V-36V DC 3500-9000RPM Motor Ball Bearing Large Torque High Power Low Noise