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I want to go look at this boat...

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Nosnibor

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http://norfolk.craigslist.org/boa/4549349393.html

The post says rebuilt carbs which I learned is basically just cleaning them. I think I'm going to see if I can get an inspector to go with me (that's something I should do right?) and maybe hopefully get them to take me out...or is that not necessary if I have the inspector? What do y'all think about as far as price goes (ask for less?) The seller said they are dual 717's which are 85 hp? Anyone got xp with this type of boat and can give me an idea on speed and reliability on the 717's at this age, thanks again!!

***UPDATE - I am now also considering this boat as well...

http://easternshore.craigslist.org/boa/4539719048.html
 
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http://norfolk.craigslist.org/boa/4549349393.html

The post says rebuilt carbs which I learned is basically just cleaning them. I think I'm going to see if I can get an inspector to go with me (that's something I should do right?) and maybe hopefully get them to take me out...or is that not necessary if I have the inspector? What do y'all think about as far as price goes (ask for less?) The seller said they are dual 717's which are 85 hp? Anyone got xp with this type of boat and can give me an idea on speed and reliability on the 717's at this age, thanks again!!

That's a very nice boat, it's had things done to it that you would have needed or wanted to do otherwise that require spending $$$. The new interior is a plus, looks very clean and having had the carbs and steering cable done is a big deal. If the motors pass a compression test I'd make a deal pending a quick water test and enjoy the rest of the summer with it, it's probably worth very close to the asking price if it's in "turnkey" condition and doesn't need anything but fuel and oil to keep a new owner happy.

Far as taking an *inspector* with you, many owners simply don't want just anyone in the engine bay of their boat with a handful of tools, call a dealer and ask if they offer a pre-purchase inspection for used boats or ask the owner if he minds doing a few tests and being part of that directly to alleviate any concerns.
 
I think it depends greatly on how you will use the boat.

Never buy a boat without first a thorough test drive of ~30 minutes with a short full throttle blast at least, unless you are told it's going to need work of some sort and cannot be tested in which case you should plan for an expensive repair and the boat should be priced accordingly.

Two engines can get you back to shore in certain instances when a single engine can't.

Personally, I think jet boats are strictly shallow freshwater lake and river boats, I would choose an outboard as opposed to a jet for operating in the deeper bay and saltwater tributaries, and would shy away from a saltwater seadoo, they really weren't designed for extended exposure to that environment IMO.

Some dual engine seadoo boats used a single computer and those are impossible to locate replacement computers for, saltwater intrusion can become an issue for the wiring harness and unobtainable computer.
 
I think it depends greatly on how you will use the boat.

Never buy a boat without first a thorough test drive of ~30 minutes with a short full throttle blast at least, unless you are told it's going to need work of some sort and cannot be tested in which case you should plan for an expensive repair and the boat should be priced accordingly.

Two engines can get you back to shore in certain instances when a single engine can't.

Personally, I think jet boats are strictly shallow freshwater lake and river boats, I would choose an outboard as opposed to a jet for operating in the deeper bay and saltwater tributaries, and would shy away from a saltwater seadoo, they really weren't designed for extended exposure to that environment IMO.

Some dual engine seadoo boats used a single computer and those are impossible to locate replacement computers for, saltwater intrusion can become an issue for the wiring harness and unobtainable computer.

You added a lot more for me to worry about, haha. Yeah I live on the York and would mainly be in that area and the mouth of the bay and not really going out further than that. Some friends of mine have the smaller 4 seater speedsters and they seem to be ok with the water conditions.

The computer thing is the first I have heard of that so thanks for bringing that thought up.
 
That's a very nice boat, it's had things done to it that you would have needed or wanted to do otherwise that require spending $$$. The new interior is a plus, looks very clean and having had the carbs and steering cable done is a big deal. If the motors pass a compression test I'd make a deal pending a quick water test and enjoy the rest of the summer with it, it's probably worth very close to the asking price if it's in "turnkey" condition and doesn't need anything but fuel and oil to keep a new owner happy.

Far as taking an *inspector* with you, many owners simply don't want just anyone in the engine bay of their boat with a handful of tools, call a dealer and ask if they offer a pre-purchase inspection for used boats or ask the owner if he minds doing a few tests and being part of that directly to alleviate any concerns.

Thanks for the reply. The guy said he would be ok with taking me out on the water. I asked about compression and he said he hasn't noticed anything with it and said he even had the kit to do it himself. I don't know about that but I was definitely going to ask if he wouldn't mind before having some random person come in.
 
Thanks for the reply. The guy said he would be ok with taking me out on the water. I asked about compression and he said he hasn't noticed anything with it and said he even had the kit to do it himself. I don't know about that but I was definitely going to ask if he wouldn't mind before having some random person come in.

If he's offering a trial run in water he's not trying to hide anything and the fact he has a compression tester makes it that much better. You should record compression numbers prior to going out on the water with it, and I would suggest purchasing your own new tester they aren't that expensive and you will use it occasionally on any boat you own as part of your maintenance routine.

Compression testers sometimes just read wrong, some high some low. Your hoping for numbers close to the 150 psi range on those cylinders (that is what a fresh engine would provide) and say the very first one only pumps up to 120 psi on his tester, it would be prudent to stop and plug another tester in on the same cylinder to see and compare the results since you're right there doing it.

I have two old well used compression testers that read about 20-30 psi low and one good one that I bought back in the days when the tool truck visited the shop, one of these days I'll swap the gauges for new ones and see if they work.
 
If he's offering a trial run in water he's not trying to hide anything and the fact he has a compression tester makes it that much better. You should record compression numbers prior to going out on the water with it, and I would suggest purchasing your own new tester they aren't that expensive and you will use it occasionally on any boat you own as part of your maintenance routine.

Compression testers sometimes just read wrong, some high some low. Your hoping for numbers close to the 150 psi range on those cylinders (that is what a fresh engine would provide) and say the very first one only pumps up to 120 psi on his tester, it would be prudent to stop and plug another tester in on the same cylinder to see and compare the results since you're right there doing it.

I have two old well used compression testers that read about 20-30 psi low and one good one that I bought back in the days when the tool truck visited the shop, one of these days I'll swap the gauges for new ones and see if they work.

Is there a specific brand of tested that you would recommend more? I see they are not that expensive at all! I have also watched some videos on youtube of people doing it, lol.
 
Not so much brand specific for no more than you will likely need it, but the shorter the hose length the faster / more accurate reading I think you'll see on an affordable tester it won't take as long to pump up to max psi. The videos are helpful, there's really nothing at all to doing it.
 
Yeah I have seen some with hoses and some with just a hard nozzle plug in. However everything I am seeing is on car websites. Does that matter? Like does it have to be marine?
 
Yeah I have seen some with hoses and some with just a hard nozzle plug in. However everything I am seeing is on car websites. Does that matter? Like does it have to be marine?

Well, that's a good question. I have two of them them that were Matco brand *small engine* designated that I used on outboards and one regular automotive that I used on inboard engine blocks. There is a difference in the hose inside diameter, the automotive is larger with the shrader pressure relief valve up near the gauge and the smaller ones have the valve at the bottom of the hose.

Your dealing with large enough pistons and jugs on the Rotax motor that I believe a standard automotive gauge will work just fine, my automotive tester tells me I have 152 / 155 psi compression on my 787 Rotax and I do occasionally check it against my shop air compressor output psi to test for accuracy.

My two smaller engine testers are way off, but those got used daily in a marine repair shop for many years and saw pretty hard use.
 
I appreciate all the help and info you have given. I really want something and it just shakes my nerves on buying something that won't last. I know it's very speculative but is it possible for these boats to last another 10 years? I guess it all depends on use and maintenance and I don't have any idea what this boat has seen in the past. I hate to keep bugging y'all with random questions but I just want to learn all I can and it seems like google is staring to be a dead end.
 
I appreciate all the help and info you have given. I really want something and it just shakes my nerves on buying something that won't last. I know it's very speculative but is it possible for these boats to last another 10 years? I guess it all depends on use and maintenance and I don't have any idea what this boat has seen in the past. I hate to keep bugging y'all with random questions but I just want to learn all I can and it seems like google is staring to be a dead end.
Well, thats another good question. I turned wrenches on boats in an OMC / Mercury dealer shop, we serviced everything from small outboard fishing motors to dockside service on inboard diesels on serious sport fishing yachts and I can tell you it's not a matter of if but when something is going to need minor repair or a serious overhaul. The cost of repowering a boat should always be something to consider as a necessary expense at some point during ownership.

I just aquired my first Sea Doo boat just two weeks back, It's a '97 Challenger with a single 787 powering it. I found one in above average condition considering it's age regarding the hull and original upholstery and trailer, but no matter I went into the purchase knowing it needed a few things in the pump housing to get it going with a few *unknown* issues with the power but I tested the compression first before making an offer so that was the difference in my minds eye of having to just do tune up parts versus an engine rebuild right away.

We really wanted / needed a boat we could use for the rest of the season and weren't having any luck finding one that had been reasonably cared for as the years came and went and were happy to come across this one. I had to rebuild the pump housing with a new wear ring and impeller, replace the anti rattle cone and rebuild the carbs and clean a lot of nasty build up from the rave valves. I also replaced the fuel lines as preventive maintenance, 17 years later they didn't owe anyone anything and the baffle needed a new sensor float for the fuel gauge.

So, I have some time into the boat and another $600.00 or so in parts after buying it to have it back into turn key condition with the idea that I will probably keep and use it for another ten years, and if during that time I have to replace a motor I won't bat an eyelash at doing it. Rotax motor's are very affordable for complete remanufactured engines and are the most bang for the buck when it comes to horsepower. The cost of repowering the boat at some point was my primary consideration in buying one versus a competitor's boat powered by either Omc or Mercury engines.
 
I think I understood maybe half of that but that is why I am here....I have also continued looking around while deciding what to do about the previous and I found this challenger.

http://easternshore.craigslist.org/boa/4539719048.html

The person seems like a dealer so IDK if that is good or bad as in hiding issues from me. The post seems good and is even cheaper and the boat includes hydroturf which would save me 400$. Nothing about fuel lines done. Also can anyone confirm why he would be mixing the oil and fuel while there is a working pump? I don't even know why you would mix fuel and oil.
 
I think I understood maybe half of that but that is why I am here....I have also continued looking around while deciding what to do about the previous and I found this challenger.

http://easternshore.craigslist.org/boa/4539719048.html

The person seems like a dealer so IDK if that is good or bad as in hiding issues from me. The post seems good and is even cheaper and the boat includes hydroturf which would save me 400$. Nothing about fuel lines done. Also can anyone confirm why he would be mixing the oil and fuel while there is a working pump? I don't even know why you would mix fuel and oil.

Who knows, piece of mind because someone told him the oil pumps aren't dependable? Or he cooked the engines and threw new top ends in them to get the boat running to sell it's anyone's guess but certainly not needed outside of break in duration on a rebuild engine or top end. I would personally do that on a new engine, placing liquid level marks on the oil tank and front jack height and make sure the pump had used two inches of oil before I stopped premixing. Just ask him why he premixes, and simply note his response. You just never know what people are thinking or trying to hide when they sell a boat.

One thing is for sure, running both pre-mix and the oil pump will mask the signs of a tired engine under a set of fresh plugs for a short duration as it helps seal blow by on worn piston rings and cylinders. Think of it as *cheating* compression if you will, won't run well forever like that but sure makes a couple wide open throttle runs around the lake a whole lot more impressive.

Just remember, twin engine boats are going to have twice the risk of needing engine and driveline work and you might be better served by holding out for a nice single at a good price that allows you some wiggle room to repower the boat at some point if your not needing the extra horsepower to tow heavy loads with.

I'm amazed how responsive the single 787 Rotax is with me and a couple other people in the boat, it get's right up on plane and you can pull the throttle back for a nice 30 mph cruise in about 10 seconds time, the most we will ever do is pull a tube so the fuel economy of the single is a far better option for the way we use the boat. The fuel savings is such a consideration that I will probably save somewhere around $700 + a year, that buys a new engine plus some every two years with current fuel costs being so high.
 
Haha, my problem is I have friends that have Speedster's with the 215 supercharged and one of them has the speedster 200. I need something to try to keep up with them without spending 20k.
 
Haha, my problem is I have friends that have Speedster's with the 215 supercharged and one of them has the speedster 200. I need something to try to keep up with them without spending 20k.

You know what? That's pure novelty, I mean I get it been there and done that with offshore racing boats back in the time of sub $2.00 gallon 93 octane fuel but at the end of the day the young guy that can afford to take the pretty lady out for dinner and drinks he met on the sandbar that day still wins. Us old guys have been there and done that, water toy's that stretch the limits of your disposable income can become not fun to own in a real hurry and those same friends might not be boating in another year or two for that very reason.

Just something to think about, there is little in life better than a day out on the lake with your toes in the sand somewhere sunny with the boat anchored, getting there at 35 miles an hour versus 50 doesn't matter at the end of the day.
 
lol, well I already got the pretty lady! I just want to have fun but not be broke while doing it and also not getting left with a lawn ornament. I understand the risks of boats but it seems like there is no such thing as a good option. I will have to spend money into it no matter what. I'm just trying to find the best one for my money upfront.
 
I really like the 6k under option. So I know it will be an older boat...which is right around where all these challengers, sportsters and speedsters sit.
 
I appreciate all the help and info you have given. I really want something and it just shakes my nerves on buying something that won't last. I know it's very speculative but is it possible for these boats to last another 10 years? I guess it all depends on use and maintenance and I don't have any idea what this boat has seen in the past. I hate to keep bugging y'all with random questions but I just want to learn all I can and it seems like google is staring to be a dead end.

Personally, I prefer the newer boat (2000) with green interior. That doesn't make it a better boat though, the history of the boat is what counts. Like any boat, these will need maintenance and it's buyer beware so be prepared to replace things as they're needed such as the engines and associated wiring/switches, etc. Compression test and water test are mandatory if you're buying a used "running" boat due to the engine replacement is not priced in.

If you keep the boat for another 10 years I'm fairly confident the carburetors and fuel system will need rework and you will likely replace one or probably both motors at some point but fortunately these remanufacured motors are among the least expensive in the marine industry (shop labor rates still apply though!).

If you know someone who has an ear for the Seadoo 2-stoke engine and is willing/capable of diagnosing/tuning them, then you have a giant head start in the learning curve.

It will make a difference if you're capable of replacing the motors and performing the maintenance yourself, otherwise if you cannot remove and replace a motor then I think something perhaps not so temperamental as a 2-stroke Seadoo might be a better choice.

I can understand the attraction to this boat, and maybe to you based on the experience of your friends running their seadoos you feel comfortable with your abilities and that's fine. Later seadoos are running 4-stroke engines which aren't quite so temperamental as 2-stroke engines but themselves have their own unique set of problems, mainly the factory exhaust valve stems are known for corroding so the valve head pops off and punches a hole in the piston (ruining the engine) The aftermarket exhaust valves and the valves in the later 4-stroke engines address this problem completely. If you wind up with a 4-stroke from this era which hasn't had the cylinder head reworked, I would do that ASAP to avoid having to replace the motor.

They use less fuel too, but they're still jets so they consume more than a comparable stern drive. Maybe you should take a look at the 4-stroke Seadoo boats?

There is a lot to like about the 2-stroke Sportster/Speedster boats IMO and I enjoy mine tremendously, but I'm a mechanic capable of repairing anything that might go wrong so I'm not paying shop rates. I've done plenty of wrenching on mine to bring it back into shape from years of neglect so I think if your friends are well experienced with caring for and tuning/diagnosing 2-stroke Marine engines(esp. Seadoo) then you may be capable of overcoming problems as they occur, these boats really aren't completely trouble free and they require more attention than most boats so expect you will experience a learning curve.

If you just want something you can turn the key and go with a minimum of fussing with, it's difficult to beat a small ski type boat running a 4.3 V6 mercruiser stern drive. They're a bit heavier and more to deal with in terms of trailering and hoisting, etc. than the Seadoo, and a small car certainly cannot pull one down the road safely, there are so many factors you must consider when making your choice it's impossible for me to say which is best for your circumstances.
 
Sportster, just for reference is there a known range of model years on the 4-stroke engines to stay away from on those bad exhaust valves?
 
I really like the 6k under option. So I know it will be an older boat...which is right around where all these challengers, sportsters and speedsters sit.

hahahaa well 6k won`t buy our`s. regardless of what NADA says everything is new in our challenger 1800 and the trailer upgrades rebuild...

so choose wisely when looking, bc we paid top dollar to a trusted friend that didn`t turn out so trusted and stuck me good.
I have 3x what the boat is worth, but it runs fantastic, new engines/drives/parts parts parts.
So always keep in the back of your mind that you will be spending money when owning any used boat... it`s just the way it is, unless you buy brand spanking new with a warranty...

good luck and hope you find a winner @ 6k... go for the largest and longest you can afford, bc the smaller boats will knock your teeth out in anything over a ripple. I am amazed at how the Challenger 1800 handles wakes and chop, does it belong out in the rough ocean waters , NO but river and bay riding is good to go!...

I realize I won`t get what I have into mine, so someone will undoubtedly get a great boat when I decided to get a pontoonie...
 
that appears to be a very nice boat. replacing one engine is better than replacing 2 so a plus there. the owner did spend some coin on upgrades. I`m not a big fan of that trailer hand crank dolly thing tho...

wouldn`t hurt to go for a ride at least!

well to give you any idea, I`m looking at 10k for mine including all the trailer updates and including hundreds of dollars in spare parts... so you have to weigh each ad/sale on an individual basis...

8k seems doable for that speedster, just a bit small...
 
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