I think I have catastrophic problems

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jisaac325i

jisaac325i

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I have been trouble shooting and fixing issues on my 2001 GTX for two years now. Ski probably has not been on the water for at least 4 years. Just when I thought I had everything fixed the worst has happened.
I finally put everything back together putting on the tuned pipe last. I did not put loctite on the bolts as I wasn't sure everything would work. Mistake #1 I think. I took the ski out on the LI Sound and everything seemed to be running fine. The ski would idle at 3000 RPM on the trailer. I put in the water and adjusted the rpm to about 1400. Once that was all done I headed out through the no wake zone. She ran fine, I didn't even have to give it any throttle to get through the zone about 3 minutes.
I pushed the ski at half throttle for about 15 minutes and things started going bad. I head metallic clanking in the bilge and the ski began to bog down and wouldn't accelerate. I didn't go far from the dock so I was able to limp back. Once I got tied to the pier I took off the seat and found the exhaust manifold hanging off. All the bolts were in the bottom of the bilge. Also the PTO carb was hanging off, its bolts too shook loose. None of the bolts sheared off they all just shook loose.
Due to work and other responsibilities I was not able to get everything back together for about 10 days. Now that it is all back together the engine wont turn over. Battery is fully charged, Dess key produces 2 beeps but when I hit the starter button I can here a click in the rear electrical box and the PTO fly wheel moves just enough to see it jerk but that's it.
I removed spark plugs and tried to turn it by hand and it would not budge. I am thinking I may have bent the shaft or something with all the vibration. Problem is I don't know where to go from here. :confused: Do I pull the impeller off and see if it will turn, do I need special tools to do that. I don't have any of the specialty tools the shop manual talks about. Any help on where to start would be greatly appreciated. :facepalm:
 
From what your saying I'm guessing when you re-installed the motor you didn't align the motor to the pump, that's what caused the excessive vibrations. The only correct way to do this is with an alignment tool. It does sound like something is seized up. The first thing you need to do is to remove the pump and determine if the motor or the pump is seized. Let us know which one and we'll go from there.

I just re-read your post, yes you will need a special tool to remove the impeller, it only costs 10-15 dollars but go ahead and pull the pump, lets hope it is the pump that's seized and not the motor.

Lou
 
I may be wrong? But I hate to tell you. May of rusted up / locked the engine. If the water did not get cleared out of engine. Or a low end problem and something locked up. Could of got a lot of water on or in starter.
 
Lou, Mick, Thank you for the input. Unfortunately I was not the one that installed the engine. That was the PO. I installed everything else. The PO got tired of working on it that is how I got it. Either way the Jet Pump is the assembly consisting of the Nozzle, Venturi and Housing. All I have to do to remove the pump is disconnect the steering cables and remove the 4 bolts that hold the pump onto the hull right?
 
It has to be aligned perfect ( shaft ). That is why you need the alignment tool / jig. The engine drive shaft will shake the whole assembly if not aligned perfectly. Even when all the stuff is aligned there still is alot of vibration.
Then there all motor mounts and tuned pipe mounts / bolts. Some of them may be missing or loose. Basket case Ski's are a PIA. Because you just don't know what was wrong and really what the last owner did not do or just deleated. What is missing or what are just extra parts / bolts.
 
I rent my alignment tool to fellow members at virtual cost. I live in OH but am moving to FL in two days. If you would like to rent it, I need to know by about 3pm on Thursday as after that it will be in a shipping POD and I will not be able to get to it for about two weeks. Let me know if you would like the details.
 
jisaac325i said:
Lou, Mick, Thank you for the input. Unfortunately I was not the one that installed the engine. That was the PO. I installed everything else. The PO got tired of working on it that is how I got it. Either way the Jet Pump is the assembly consisting of the Nozzle, Venturi and Housing. All I have to do to remove the pump is disconnect the steering cables and remove the 4 bolts that hold the pump onto the hull right?
Click to expand...

On a GTX you will also need to remove the two springs and then remove the reverse gate.

Lou
 
I had the exhaust head pipe separate from the exhaust manifold this season. The problem is it sprays water everywhere and allows water to enter the engine. I was able to make a new gasket that night then run the engine to get the water out. Being that u waited 10 days with saltwater it might be too late to save. Start by removing the pump then see if it will turn over. What part of Long Island are you from? I am on the manorville area
 
Thank you everyone. Coastiejoe I will need your alignment tool at some point but I am afraid it will be more than two weeks from now. I got the impeller off an the impeller spun freely in the housing so I don't think the impeller seized. Now I fear it is like Eddie said I must have gotten water in the engine. With the impeller off I still can't spin the engine by hand. At this point it looks like I will have to rebuild the engine. Do you think the top end is still good and it is just the crankshaft that wilk need to be replaced. I will take the top end off and look inside and see. Unfortunately it looks like you have to remove the engine from the ski in order to get the top end off based on the angle the 951 sits at.
Anyone have any other suggestions before I take this on.
Btw Eddie I am in Yaphank I launch from Smith Point.
Coastie Joe you still in the Guard. I spent 12 years in the Guard.
 
Retired, 23 yrs. pull your starter as the bendix gets jammed sometimes. After that, if it still won't turn over, it is seized.

Ill pack it up. It will be in FL with me when/if you need it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
When its time to pull the engine is there anything special to it. Do I need any special tools to get the bottom end apart. Will I need a hoist to pull it out?
 
Two strong guys can wrestle it out, you would be better with a hoist or at least a come along. I would also suggest the you download a service manual.

Lou
 
Sure. Drop it off at my place and I'll give you $900.

Metric Allen sockets, metric open ends, hoist, and mostly normal garage tools.

It's gotta come out, and more importantly go back in, in a fairly specific order.

Air box, carbs, pipe, electrics, hoses, engine. Have fun I'm down to 45 min to pull one from an XP.
 
pull the starter like coastiejoe said. lucky if you do need to rebuild it we have pwc engine right by me in manorville that can do it. he rebuilt the motor on my 96 xp and i am very happy with it. 2 year warranty just like all the rest. if u need a hand with anything let me know, i am only about 15 mins away from you at most. its not too bad to pull the motor just take your time and be organized
 
Thank you all again. I am going to pull the starter today and see if that allows it to turn. Keeping my fingers crossed. If not I will rent a hoist and pull the engine. I downloaded the manual as Lou suggested and it seems straight forward. I have all the tools sabrtooth mentioned. I'll just take it slow and steady. I will keep you all updated and will be sure to ask for help if I get stuck. This can be my winter project. I have a 96 GTX that I will use for the rest of the warm weather here in NY. Eddie I will PM you if I need the info for PWC engine.
One question I read a lot on the forum of everyone sending the engine out to get rebuilt. Why doesn't anyone do it themselves. Is it that hard. If you have all the tools to take it apart to find the damage can't you just replace the parts and out it back together again? It looks feasible from the way it reads in the shop manual. But I don't want to tackle something that others have found to be not worth the effort.
 
it's not that we can't do the rebuild at home, it's that it doesn't make sense.

you're sporting a 13 year old high strung engine... if you look at it and replace the parts you think are damaged, and I'm not saying anyone here wouldn't do their best... your looking at $400-600.

for $900-1000 bucks, you get a fully rebuilt engine, WITH a NO FAULT warranty.

speaking as someone who's put the same engine in more than once because of missed things... yea, not worth the time/hassle.

People do top ends on 10 year old 951s, then within a tank or two (or as soon as they nail the throttle)... the crank goes... and the engine's gotta come back out... AGAIN...

it's your call, but from my personal experience, I stick to swapping the whole engine at a time.

I should be getting another engine back from SES next week, I'll film the install and post up the vids.
 
Sabrtooth thank you for the honest advice. So I should just pull the engine and send it out to get rebuilt. Should I even bother opening it up to see what went wrong? Is there any value to that. As in for future trouble shooting or does it look just like the pictures in the shop manual?
 
I got the starter off as you all suggested and the gear on the starter turns freely in my hand. So I can safely say it is not the starter. I still can't turn the engine by hand so since everything is ruled out I am going to start disconnecting everything else to get ready to pull the engine. Thanks for all the advice. Also here are pictures of everything I pulled off. Any thing else looks like it needs to be replaced while I have everything off. I am thinking the impeller needs to be changed. Anything else based on this quick glance.
20140828_104625.jpg20140828_104637.jpg20140829_154331.jpg20140829_162346.jpg
 
To make it a little easier, you can remove the head and jugs/cylinders before removing the engine. This way, the engine will weight less, but you will need some type of hoist to put it back in since you don't want to reinstall the jugs and head in the ski.
 
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