Hey everybody, just got a 01 GTX with 951 engine with carbs. Right now its got 160 hours on it and is running pretty darn good. Looks to be very well taken care of. Just wanted to see some numbers on how many hours this engine will last before needing a rebuild. Also, the previous owner used the synthetic oil, and I purchased the seadoo synthetic oil. Is this really necessary for the carb engine? I heard it was for the DI engine, but not necessarily for the carb engine. Thanks.
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How many hours on your 951
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greyrider
New Member
Mine reads 276 on the display.
It finally let go of a rod bearing due to water damage over the years.
It has been sunk 3 times that I know of and still made it over 10 years and the hours are legit.
Used Synthetic Seadoo oil whole life.
Also I should note that it had the grey lines.
Gone now, but I noticed the only place the green stuff from them shows up is at the carb connections for some reason. Both supply and return
Put re-built engine in last week and next week it gets its water test after dry land stuff went well.
It finally let go of a rod bearing due to water damage over the years.
It has been sunk 3 times that I know of and still made it over 10 years and the hours are legit.
Used Synthetic Seadoo oil whole life.
Also I should note that it had the grey lines.
Gone now, but I noticed the only place the green stuff from them shows up is at the carb connections for some reason. Both supply and return
Put re-built engine in last week and next week it gets its water test after dry land stuff went well.
SabrToothSqrl
Well-Known Member
it was rated for 10 years of use at 20 hours a season. Roughly 200 hours. This DOES NOT mean yours will fail at 200 or 250 or even 300.
Well taken care of, they last 250-300.
When it does finally wear out, SES engines in PA has rebuilds w/a warranty under a grand.
Well taken care of, they last 250-300.
When it does finally wear out, SES engines in PA has rebuilds w/a warranty under a grand.
Dr Honda
Well-Known Member
I am having a real problem with my 1999 gtx limited 951 carb ski.I bought it 1 year ago from a dealer with 89 hours on it and gray lines were changed.I now have 99 hours on this ski and it won't run wot.dies out at about 3500 rpm.Did compression check and got 125/135.Pulled rave and see scuffing on piston.Ski has always had full synthic oil.Anyone know what has happened because seams I got issues.
Thanks,Tom
Thanks,Tom
Sportster-2001-951C-Stock
Well-Known Member
More than likely one of your carbs is plugged with goo and/or the water separator cups also leak air horribly if not in A+ condition so the fuel pump sucks air and feeds what it gets to the carbs, because it doesn't know the difference. Motor runs lean, and causes common 2 stroke death.
So you've lost 10psi on one cylinder, could be either one but if PTO then that's the carb that most goo ends up in.
My feeling is, a great majority of the "951 dies an premature life" posts are only true b/c any 2 stroke that's run lean is a 2 stroke headed for the scrap heap. The more power/cc a 2 stroke engine is capable of producing, the more true the statement.
True Group V Synthetic esters are the best at wetting HOT metallic surfaces and have the greatest film strength thus provide the best protection, but run off of cold surfaces and are fantastic at absorbing water, so fog with mineral based oils during storage periods.
Lack of fuel(malfunctioning fuel system) If your 2 stroke engine dies and otherwise loses power, this is a sign it needs attention and if it's forced to run that way long enough then the small amount of film protection that's no longer being carried to the cylinder due to lack of fuel that normally carries it there, it doesn't matter how super-duper the oil is, the cylinder will eventually begin to seize. More than likely sooner than later.
So, don't leave your records in the sun or they'll warp and they won't be good for anyone. Also, don't expect your 2 stoke engine to survive an lean running condition, the fuel carries with it the lubrication.
SabrToothSqrl
Well-Known Member
Also, you MUST use the correct oil in a 951. XPS-II is my only choice. However there are equivalents.
Using a non equivalent oil will last you about 10 hours until total engine failure.
Agreed. If its not running correctly, DO NOT keep running it.
The early 951s, and improperly repaired 951s are also prone to an exhaust water leak directly above the intake system. Which results in water ingestion.
Using a non equivalent oil will last you about 10 hours until total engine failure.
Agreed. If its not running correctly, DO NOT keep running it.
The early 951s, and improperly repaired 951s are also prone to an exhaust water leak directly above the intake system. Which results in water ingestion.
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Sportster-2001-951C-Stock
Well-Known Member
Synthetic's of Group V status offer the best film strength protection of all the 2-stroke oils, not always necessary. Oils can break down and burn during the combustion process, the less they decompose during the process, the better the protect, IMO.
The 951 is a rave engine, and I think if you run a mineral based oil, like a good quality Group III, there is probably adequate film strength, however, the rave valve deposits may begin to reveal the difference, as the deposits may be abrasive carbon instead of the normal oily goo I've noticed on mine because the mineral oils probably decompose more rapidly than the esters, and it's generally understood they contain higher levels of impurities.
I think the phenomenon is pretty well explained on Belray's website:
http://www.belray.com/2-stroke-lubrication
Generally speaking, any 2 stroke engine that's not running and making power as it should, should be taken out of service and the problem addressed before engine damage occurs. Avoid running a 2 stroke engine if it is not performing well, some people keep running them hoping the problem will resolve itself but too often the "Italian Tune-up" approach ends up producing engine damage, regardless of which oil is in the fuel mix.
Perhaps it would be safe to say that if you only plan to putt around at half throttle and your boat runs correctly at all times, then the mineral oil probably has more than enough film strength to provide years of dependable service. I would still use a LOW ASH API-TC oil, I would not use TCW-3 or NO ASH oil.
I use the XPS II Synthetic in mine because I do get to WOT occasionally for short periods of time of probably less than 1 minute, and typically ride at better than 50% throttle, maybe closer to 65%.
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Sportster-2001-951C-Stock
Well-Known Member
In the 951, if you run the engine hard at all, I would use the synthetic. I'm not sure if it's the very best synthetic out there but it's certainly not the most expensive and lots of seadoos are running it with hundreds of thousands of hours on them. If any seadoo 2 stroke needs the synthetic, it would be the 951 engine because it's one of the largest and most powerful of 2 stroke engines/cc.
If you just putt around at partial throttle and never run WOT, then you might get by with using the mineral version. The synthetic version is actually better, IMO, but I don't like the fact that synthetics are hygroscopic, so I fog with mineral oil..
If you just putt around at partial throttle and never run WOT, then you might get by with using the mineral version. The synthetic version is actually better, IMO, but I don't like the fact that synthetics are hygroscopic, so I fog with mineral oil..
SabrToothSqrl
Well-Known Member
the manual states the 951 requires XPS-II. which is full synthetic.
Sportster-2001-951C-Stock
Well-Known Member
Quite true: "BOMBARDIER FORMULA XP-S synthetic injection oil (or equivalent)"
"CAUTION: Bombardier formulation XP-S is specially formulated and tested for use in our 947 engines. Use of any other brand of twostroke
oil may void the limited warranty. Use only Bombardier Formula XP-S (or equivalent)."
Sportster-2001-951C-Stock
Well-Known Member
I have no idea how many hours are on my 951, it had TCW-3 in it when I bought it last year this time and a whole host of things needed attention such as mostly the entire fuel system and of course the oiling system cleaned out and refilled with XPS-II synthetic. Turned 6k when I got it and now turns 6500RPM, impeller has nicks from sea shells and debris but went from pushing the boat from 40 to 45MPH on the "Dream-O Meter". 2001 Sportster carb 951, not expecting it to exceed 49mph once I've blueprinted the jet pump, probably get to during this winter once it's back on the trailer.
I'll post the hours if ever I have another lanyard programmed, so that remains a mystery. Runs great now though, no longer bogs or dies at mid throttle, my compression test gauge blows 137psi both cylinders and the brown stains on the piston sleeves are almost completely gone since changing back to the XPS-II, the correct synthetic oils are great cleaners and will keep your rings from gumming and sticking in their lands...
I'll post the hours if ever I have another lanyard programmed, so that remains a mystery. Runs great now though, no longer bogs or dies at mid throttle, my compression test gauge blows 137psi both cylinders and the brown stains on the piston sleeves are almost completely gone since changing back to the XPS-II, the correct synthetic oils are great cleaners and will keep your rings from gumming and sticking in their lands...
dustindu4
Active Member
I just check the compression on it with an Actron compression tester and it registered around 120-125 on both sides.
Good? Bad? Typical?
I read as long as they are the same it's ok, lower than 110 I should be worried. Thoughts?
Sportster-2001-951C-Stock
Well-Known Member
The results you obtain can be skewed for several reasons, here are a few:
Condition of battery (occasionally the 2nd cylinder tested reads lower b/c the battery loses energy and doesn't turn the engine as fast.)
Throttle must be fully open
Gauge can be out of calibration/type of gauge (screw in type with hose is best, not hold against the plug hole.
Both plugs should be removed to ease engine rotation, and the plug wires should be grounded to avoid coil damage.
So, I wouldn't say 120/125 is anything to worry about if maybe one of the above is affecting the results, a 5 psi difference isn't alarming either. Those figures are slightly lower than anticipated, but without a known strong battery and starter in good condition, doesn't cause alarm bells to ring.
I just tested the compression on a four stroke 2-cylinder a few days ago and the reading increased 20% just by jumping from a stronger battery than the weak 6yr old battery that was questionable. Cranking speed makes a huge difference.
If you had measured less than 100 on the first and 135 on the second, I would definitely say something's not kosher.
I have about 193 hrs on mine, compression when i bought it last Nov. was 130 or so in both cylinders.
Sportster-2001-951C-Stock
Well-Known Member
And, I bet you could add a few pounds to that by using a 500cca battery.
This the battery the PO got from WalMart....so far it's working just fine.
IDK the cca on it.
Why would higher caa help the compression PSI?. does this make it crank stronger?
The ski is in florida and used 1-3 times a year.
Sportster-2001-951C-Stock
Well-Known Member
Yep, batteries are one case where bigger is better whenever possible. The higher the cranking amperage, the "stiffer" the battery voltage will be and internal resistance is less, probably have near another volt of EMF to spin that motor a bit faster.
Might have some difficulty mounting the thing in small spaces, they're considerably larger.
Might have some difficulty mounting the thing in small spaces, they're considerably larger.
SabrToothSqrl
Well-Known Member
My bought brand new 99 GTX LTD 951 lasted 360 hours. Then a water leak in the exhaust caused it to ingest water and conk out.
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