Hosed by builder - Looking for honest engine shop

[Pro_Marinero]

Hi all. This is my first post on here. I'm trying to help my dad out.

He had a Seadoo Explorer engine longblock done for a customer of his by a company called Watercraft Engine Technologies in New Mexico. He is a power equipment dealer but works on other odds and ends for friends of his.

He researched this company prior to sending the core in. It took over nine months to get the motor back. He re-installed it in the boat. On the first trip out one of the crank seals let go and sucked a bunch of crap in. Being that it had been so long since the boat first came in he was over a barrel between the money being out for the build and getting paid from the customer. He ended up keeping the boat as-is but lost a buddy in the process.

This happened last summer. He's been pretty discouraged the whole time but pulled the motor and took it to another PWC place closer. They disassembled it and found the job that was done was terrible. He told me a few details but basically it was a piss-poor job. Normally I would leave it to him to solve but he's a little out of his element once it goes beyond about 75 miles from his shop and he can't get a good local review. He said he looked for feedback on this guy prior to sending it in and didn't find any bad stuff, but I found some negative stuff once he had been waiting 6 months for the initial motor (it took some searching but it sounds like the owner is a total crook).

I don't know what I can do to help him outside of leaving nasty remarks online about the other place, but I was just seeing what kind of recommendations people have for other shops. I've seen SeaDoo Engine Shop and SBT. Are there any others? The boat is a '94 so I'm not sure if he's got a 650 or 717. Not looking for any crazy mods, just a good reliable motor that will make decent power. It's got a twin-carb setup now.

Today's his birthday and he found out that the motor was crap. Taking a $2200 hit sort of ruins it.

Thanks for any help.

 

[ocod]

That year is probably a 657.
SbT is you best bet for around 500 bucks with two year warranty.

Otherwise you can get used engine from 99spxxx or minnetonka4me for a good deal but SBT would be the way to go.

Tell your dad happy birthday and you orderd the engine for him

You can have old engine out and new one in together.
Ski engine transplant is very doable.

 

[Spimothy Leary]

my first choice would be SBT.
i'm absolutely shocked that a 657 would take 9 months turnaround, and more than $600. did he really pay $2200 ?

honestly he should have been making phone calls on day 31, 32, 33, 34 and so on....

 

[Pro_Marinero]

my first choice would be SBT.
i'm absolutely shocked that a 657 would take 9 months turnaround, and more than $600. did he really pay $2200 ?

honestly he should have been making phone calls on day 31, 32, 33, 34 and so on....

I hear you. I'm not really sure what happened. I know he was making calls but what can you do? A builder with a line of BS each time but 2000 miles away doesn't exactly give you the opportunity to pop down and bang on the counter. As far as the $2200, he dropped that number today but I think that was what his bill was for the boat to his customer. I know it was a longblock and not a shortblock so it was more like $1200 for the engine work, and I think the guy told him that the 717 was an easy upgrade for more juice. Regardless, this was one of those times when I wished he would have talked to me prior to doing it. I'm not a PWC guy but I'm big into motorcycles and have worked with many aftermarket shops at long distance, but only AFTER doing a lot of research and getting firsthand customer reviews on forums like this. Dad is really more of a local guy. I know after this he'll be calling me for the skinny on potential douchebags.

Thanks for the SBT recommendation. Anybody know about SES? I read a 4-page thread on here about them but there weren't any final postings on how their work turned out.

 

[Spimothy Leary]

well yes, things can turn into delays, especially if there is a 3rd party involved so priorities may have been a little low on both ends, and obviously they were low at the shop, and frankly lamenting about it does no good since whats done is done. in the end chit happens, he loses some $ and learns a lesson, you inherit some extra duties and all will be well.

as far as shop vs sbt, honestly sbt is a simpler solution for somebody that has more money than mechanical knowledge, this is not an insult, probably 85-90% of all pwc owners are completely at the mercy of a mechanic/shop, and when we talk about $600 engines we tend not to mention the shipping both ways and the installation price locally and misc things that are discovered along the way (rusty driveshaft, bad bearings, cables etc) only about 10% of pwc owners at the most should attempt an engine rebuild and I think thats being friendly, maybe 15% are capable of an engine swap.

this is a very general statement, because the gap isn't always that far apart between a self/local rebuild, just depends on what was actually wrong, if the rest of this crappy job is still good, a crank swap wouldn't break anybody, so i'm guessing the problems went' deeper than that or you'd just be giving this 2nd shop $ to remove & replace a crank and then heading out to the lake.

in the end, sbt + shipping probably makes sense since i'm assuming the local shop that identified this as a piss poor job didn't throw you a bid that you thought reasonable to fix whatever specific problem there was/is. even a piss poor job doesn't = core unless it has sat & rusted, yada yada.

With that said the key with sbt imo is the warranty, they actually do back it up ! so instead of resorting to leaving a nasty blog post somewhere, you make a phone call and swap the engine again (and get eaten alive with shipping both ways but thats still much cheaper than starting over...) I can't speak directly about other large shops, having never ordered from them.

simply put, assuming the new engine is toast, and you can't get repercussion from the first builder, its time to move on, order from a known shop, get a warranty, pay the piper & move on.

you'll probably never get a large scale consensus on which shop is best, even in a situation where 4 out of 5 approve , the 1 out of 5 has an absolute nightmare story

 

[Pro_Marinero]

well yes, things can turn into delays, especially if there is a 3rd party involved so priorities may have been a little low on both ends, and obviously they were low at the shop, and frankly lamenting about it does no good since whats done is done. in the end chit happens, he loses some $ and learns a lesson, you inherit some extra duties and all will be well.

as far as shop vs sbt, honestly sbt is a simpler solution for somebody that has more money than mechanical knowledge, this is not an insult, probably 85-90% of all pwc owners are completely at the mercy of a mechanic/shop, and when we talk about $600 engines we tend not to mention the shipping both ways and the installation price locally and misc things that are discovered along the way (rusty driveshaft, bad bearings, cables etc) only about 10% of pwc owners at the most should attempt an engine rebuild and I think thats being friendly, maybe 15% are capable of an engine swap.

this is a very general statement, because the gap isn't always that far apart between a self/local rebuild, just depends on what was actually wrong, if the rest of this crappy job is still good, a crank swap wouldn't break anybody, so i'm guessing the problems went' deeper than that or you'd just be giving this 2nd shop $ to remove & replace a crank and then heading out to the lake.

in the end, sbt + shipping probably makes sense since i'm assuming the local shop that identified this as a piss poor job didn't throw you a bid that you thought reasonable to fix whatever specific problem there was/is. even a piss poor job doesn't = core unless it has sat & rusted, yada yada.

With that said the key with sbt imo is the warranty, they actually do back it up ! so instead of resorting to leaving a nasty blog post somewhere, you make a phone call and swap the engine again (and get eaten alive with shipping both ways but thats still much cheaper than starting over...) I can't speak directly about other large shops, having never ordered from them.

simply put, assuming the new engine is toast, and you can't get repercussion from the first builder, its time to move on, order from a known shop, get a warranty, pay the piper & move on.

you'll probably never get a large scale consensus on which shop is best, even in a situation where 4 out of 5 approve , the 1 out of 5 has an absolute nightmare story

Understood. Good advice. I don't consider myself a rookie wrench and my dad is far more knowledgeable than me, but both of us know that for some jobs it's better to go to the pros with the tools and experience especially on an unfamiliar engine. I've done a few rebuilds but when it comes to boring and machining it's getting jobbed out. You're right that the warranty, especially a no-fault, is key. I have confidence that it will be installed right and our work is correct, but I know the builder feels the same. Having something to fall back on and keep everyone satisfied is good insurance.

To my dad's credit, he basically got a box of parts and a bad motor. He got the motor back and was able to figure out how to get everything back together. That's more than what 80% of those out there could do. Both of us are very comfortable doing motor swaps, it's just the internals that we depend on others to do right.

He mentioned heliarcing so the case may have had a hole. He said the shop he took it to thought the heliarc work was bad too. It may be that a whole new core is required. Not sure. He's going to try SBT and SES today or tomorrow.

He wants to keep the boat for the me and the grandkids. From what I've read the '94 is quite an improvement over the '93. Personally I would rather have a Supra or a Malibu, but we have a local river that this little RIB should work pretty well on. It will piss off the fly fishermen big time, but oh well. :rofl:

Again, thanks for the advice. :thumbsup: Any other recommendations are much appreciated.

 

[ocod]

Understood. Good advice. I don't consider myself a rookie wrench and my dad is far more knowledgeable than me, but both of us know that for some jobs it's better to go to the pros with the tools and experience especially on an unfamiliar engine. I've done a few rebuilds but when it comes to boring and machining it's getting jobbed out. You're right that the warranty, especially a no-fault, is key. I have confidence that it will be installed right and our work is correct, but I know the builder feels the same. Having something to fall back on and keep everyone satisfied is good insurance.

To my dad's credit, he basically got a box of parts and a bad motor. He got the motor back and was able to figure out how to get everything back together. That's more than what 80% of those out there could do. Both of us are very comfortable doing motor swaps, it's just the internals that we depend on others to do right.

He mentioned heliarcing so the case may have had a hole. He said the shop he took it to thought the heliarc work was bad too. It may be that a whole new core is required. Not sure. He's going to try SBT and SES today or tomorrow.

He wants to keep the boat for the me and the grandkids. From what I've read the '94 is quite an improvement over the '93. Personally I would rather have a Supra or a Malibu, but we have a local river that this little RIB should work pretty well on. It will piss off the fly fishermen big time, but oh well. :rofl:

Again, thanks for the advice. :thumbsup: Any other recommendations are much appreciated.

If your case has a hole.
You can find whole core motors for 100 or so bucks online and have it shipped directly to sbt

 

[KyleB]

Hi all. This is my first post on here. I'm trying to help my dad out.

He had a Seadoo Explorer engine longblock done for a customer of his by a company called Watercraft Engine Technologies in New Mexico. He is a power equipment dealer but works on other odds and ends for friends of his.

He researched this company prior to sending the core in. It took over nine months to get the motor back. He re-installed it in the boat. On the first trip out one of the crank seals let go and sucked a bunch of crap in. Being that it had been so long since the boat first came in he was over a barrel between the money being out for the build and getting paid from the customer. He ended up keeping the boat as-is but lost a buddy in the process.

This happened last summer. He's been pretty discouraged the whole time but pulled the motor and took it to another PWC place closer. They disassembled it and found the job that was done was terrible. He told me a few details but basically it was a piss-poor job. Normally I would leave it to him to solve but he's a little out of his element once it goes beyond about 75 miles from his shop and he can't get a good local review. He said he looked for feedback on this guy prior to sending it in and didn't find any bad stuff, but I found some negative stuff once he had been waiting 6 months for the initial motor (it took some searching but it sounds like the owner is a total crook).

I don't know what I can do to help him outside of leaving nasty remarks online about the other place, but I was just seeing what kind of recommendations people have for other shops. I've seen SeaDoo Engine Shop and SBT. Are there any others? The boat is a '94 so I'm not sure if he's got a 650 or 717. Not looking for any crazy mods, just a good reliable motor that will make decent power. It's got a twin-carb setup now.

Today's his birthday and he found out that the motor was crap. Taking a $2200 hit sort of ruins it.

Thanks for any help.

I've had a very good experience with Full Bore. It's a small engine rebuilder in Michigan and the guy who owns it used to build high performance engines. He knows his stuff. Good luck. :cheers:

 

[SabrToothSqrl]

I've heard of SBT, Full Bore, and I've personally sent 3 engines to "SES engines" in horsham, PA

I'm satisfied with all the engines I've had done with them.

 

[SEA-MONSTER]

I've heard of SBT, Full Bore, and I've personally sent 3 engines to "SES engines" in horsham, PA

I'm satisfied with all the engines I've had done with them.

Sabrtoothsqrl, did you keep the oil injection or did you go premix after the rebuilds?
thanks
JB

 

[SabrToothSqrl]

oil injection all the way, premix is a PITA. Just fill it w/gas and go... weeks at a time...

 

[riding high]

I have used FULL BORE and they did an excellent job. It wouldn't hurt to talk to all so that you have all the information you can acquire to make the best decision.