2012 GTX 155, 4-TEC, no turbo. Removing the oil thru the dipstick tube using an extractor tube with black electrical tape at about 18 inches up the tube to mark the proper insertion depth (as specified in the manual to do). I push it in a little too far and when I pulled it out, no tape! I'm 95% sure it went down the tube. Tried fishing it out with wire but no sign of it. I presume it found it's way into the oil tank. Dealer says that if it blocks the oil intake filter it will grenade the engine or at least set off the alarm. I ride far out so I need reliability. Dealer says only way is to pull the engine for lots of dollars. I thought about threading a scope down there but not sure I could find a scope small enough and if I would be able to see anything conclusive. Even if I did, I'd still have to get it out. The early questions I have are: Is it really a problem? Is there a way to get to the oil tank easier (cheaper) than pulling the motor? Are there any less expensive ways out? I'm in Seattle in case any experts are near. THX!
Help! Tape from oil extractor tube fell in oil tank.
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themk
Member
A borescope should still fit down the oil dipstick hole.
If the tape is just stuck on the side of the tube you might be able to pull it up using an object or something and scraping it along the side of the tube. However, if the tape is down in the sump, you might have to pull it apart. Or, you might get lucky and the tape will be caught in the oil filter which is easily accessible. I'm not 100% sure what all has to be done to service the oil systems on those. There's also a pickup screen in the oil scavenger pump that the tape could get caught in.
Also, definitely don't go riding until you find out what happened to your piece of tape. It will get caught somewhere and will cause oil starvation in your engine. While the 4-tec EMS does monitor oil pressure, and should shut it down if it detects an abnormal condition, this is not something you want to have happen.
If the tape is just stuck on the side of the tube you might be able to pull it up using an object or something and scraping it along the side of the tube. However, if the tape is down in the sump, you might have to pull it apart. Or, you might get lucky and the tape will be caught in the oil filter which is easily accessible. I'm not 100% sure what all has to be done to service the oil systems on those. There's also a pickup screen in the oil scavenger pump that the tape could get caught in.
Also, definitely don't go riding until you find out what happened to your piece of tape. It will get caught somewhere and will cause oil starvation in your engine. While the 4-tec EMS does monitor oil pressure, and should shut it down if it detects an abnormal condition, this is not something you want to have happen.
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Thanks for the input. I've tried a hooked wire down the dipstick tube and felt nothing. I'm looking for a scope that's small enough which I think would have to be about 5mm diameter. The problem with that is, if I see it, I don't know how I would get it out. If I don't see it, I won't know for sure it's not there. I'm told the oil pick-up tube from the tank to the filter has a screen so it wouldn't make it to the filter, it would block the screen to a small or large degree. To complicate things, it's on a lift in the lake so it's harder to work on and If I don't want to run it, I've got to get it to the boat launch, a fair distance away. Please let me know if any additional thoughts come to mind.
themk
Member
You are right about the oil pickup screen. I didn't bother to go back and edit my post but after looking at the shop manual yes that is where it will get caught. I think it's technically possible to take the pump off without removing the engine from the hull, but, I feel like this is just asking for a mess.
If you need to take the boat back to the launch ramp, see if you can get a friend to tow it in the water after pinching the water intake hose. The manual should go over the proper towing procedure. As long as you don't go too fast you can tow it indefinitely with the water intake hose pinched off.
As you already figured out, paying someone to pull the engine and service the oil pump is $$$$, mainly from all the labor required.
I did not think about towing being an issue if I have to do that. Thanks, good info! The manual simply says "The maximum towing speed is 15 mph. This will prevent the exhaust system from filling with water, which may lead to water being injected into and filling the engine". Given that, do you still think it's important to find and pinch off the intake hose? I guess my plan at this point would be to row it in with my little 10' aluminum Lund.
I'll have to pick a calm day and eat my Wheaties.
Milehighguy303
Active Member
Just throwing this out there… knowing what you were doing and maybe how far down you were pressing the tube into the dipstick tube, what is the likelihood that this tape became loose and completely not sticky, to where it could slide down the hose, into the tube, slide down the tube, into the sump tank?
Having done my oil changes with white or blue painters tape wrapped around my extractor tube, I am questioning how likely it slid down into your engine? I know you take the hose in and out a few times, maybe turning over the engine in between to pump more oil into the sump, etc. But I have had the tape come off, unravel, more than ever slide down the extractor, but I never used electrical tape. It makes me wonder if it it really would slide down or maybe fall off outside the engine? It may depend on how much tape you used, and if it was tight in the dipstick tube. Just make sure you look around the engine area, maybe with a mirror under the engine before you get more concerned that it is in the engine.
If it were me… I would probably roll the dice before I pulled the engine. If it is inside, it seems it would cause oil pressure issues if it plugged off areas of flow for the pick up screen, which would trigger your oil pressure warning light. The screens job is to stop something like that. It isn’t ideal… but you may never have an issue. And if you do, your ski seems like it will let you know before damage occurs, and you then pull the engine. It isn’t likely to travel anywhere else in the engine and cause other damage, from what I can tell. Maybe pull your oil tube out and inspect it before you pull the engine?
It’s just a thought that you might consider, and others can weigh in on. I know you are uncomfortable, and I would be too. But I don’t know that this is a guaranteed disaster engine failure situation either.
Having done my oil changes with white or blue painters tape wrapped around my extractor tube, I am questioning how likely it slid down into your engine? I know you take the hose in and out a few times, maybe turning over the engine in between to pump more oil into the sump, etc. But I have had the tape come off, unravel, more than ever slide down the extractor, but I never used electrical tape. It makes me wonder if it it really would slide down or maybe fall off outside the engine? It may depend on how much tape you used, and if it was tight in the dipstick tube. Just make sure you look around the engine area, maybe with a mirror under the engine before you get more concerned that it is in the engine.
If it were me… I would probably roll the dice before I pulled the engine. If it is inside, it seems it would cause oil pressure issues if it plugged off areas of flow for the pick up screen, which would trigger your oil pressure warning light. The screens job is to stop something like that. It isn’t ideal… but you may never have an issue. And if you do, your ski seems like it will let you know before damage occurs, and you then pull the engine. It isn’t likely to travel anywhere else in the engine and cause other damage, from what I can tell. Maybe pull your oil tube out and inspect it before you pull the engine?
It’s just a thought that you might consider, and others can weigh in on. I know you are uncomfortable, and I would be too. But I don’t know that this is a guaranteed disaster engine failure situation either.
ski-d00
Well-Known Member
Remove the 7 bolts that hold the intake manifold to the head, unplug the 3 connectors to the coils, rock the intake manifold away from the head about a half inch. Remove the dipstick from the intake manifold at top by pushing it towards the head out, then wiggle and pull and the dipstick will come out. I'll bet it is still in the dipstick tube since it is about a foot long and curved as long as you haven't jammed a coat hanger in there too many times and pushed it down into the motor.
That's the hard part about this...is it really in there? I've searched everywhere, including under the motor as best as I can, and there's just no sight of it. I just imagine it snagged somewhere in the tube and slid off. That's a good idea to see if I can pull the oil tube out. I am going to try that next... fingers crossed.
I want to be convinced that it will not cause a future problem but I ride out pretty far, often coming in after dark and the consequences of getting stranded are not pretty. I don't know enough about the plumbing and oil turbulence in that system to be confident it won't block the screen. Thanks for your input and don't hesitate to let me know if anything else comes to mind.
If, in fact, the only way to get to the oil tank is to pull the motor, your approach seems like the thing to do before that. I've ordered an inspection scope with a 5.2 mm camera that I think may fit down the tube so I hope to try that first. Unfortunately, I tried to snake out the tube with a wire and a little hook at the end and may have pushed it down, though I didn't feel like I encountered anything in the process. Thanks for the input and for the info on how to get the tube out. Please let me know if you have any additional thoughts.
ski-d00
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't shove anything else down in there including a camera. It takes about 15 minutes to pull the dipstick tube.
The tube has a large curve in it so unlikely you will be able to hook and fish it out blindly and I don't think you would ever "feel" it whenever you touch or push it further.
If it is in the motor, the rear pickup screen is about 2" x 3" and the front is about a 2" circle. Seems like every motor I disassemble that have fragments from either sc washers or metal fragments from flywheel or sc teeth they are mostly caught in the front slave oil pump location.
It's not something I would want in a motor but I'm not sure if it would actually do any harm at all. If it were mine, I'd get it out even if I had to pull the motor but I'm going through a 4tec motor every couple weeks so it really isn't that big of a deal.
The tube has a large curve in it so unlikely you will be able to hook and fish it out blindly and I don't think you would ever "feel" it whenever you touch or push it further.
If it is in the motor, the rear pickup screen is about 2" x 3" and the front is about a 2" circle. Seems like every motor I disassemble that have fragments from either sc washers or metal fragments from flywheel or sc teeth they are mostly caught in the front slave oil pump location.
It's not something I would want in a motor but I'm not sure if it would actually do any harm at all. If it were mine, I'd get it out even if I had to pull the motor but I'm going through a 4tec motor every couple weeks so it really isn't that big of a deal.
Thanks for responding. I have a few questions I hope you won't mind answering: I'm afraid I may have already pushed it thru into the tank because I reinserted the extractor tube all the way to see if I could suck the tape out. I also reinserted the dip stick. Given that, do you still think it might be retrievable by pulling the dip stick tube? By doing that, does it provide any access to the tank if it's in there? What do you think about running an inspection camera down the oil fill tube? Do you think that would enable me to see into the tank to see if the tape is in there? I don't rate very high on the mechanic competence scale (duh), is removing the dip tube particularly tricky or difficult?
Regarding leaving it, putting oil back in and riding into the sunset: Given that the tape would be about 3/4"x 1" flattened, would you expect that would not eventually cause a blockage? Finally, with your experience and assuming there's no way to get it out w/o pulling the motor, about how much paid time would it take to have someone do that? I'm asking a lot but I really appreciate any info you can provide.
Milehighguy303
Active Member
Sounds like you don’t have fresh oil back in the engine. I think pulling the dipstick tube is your best bet. You could inspect the tube well, then you would have about a 1/2 inch round hole to see down into. It would be difficult to see into, but I would maybe use a claw tool to put into the hole and open and close the claw, pulling it out to check if you got anything. Slowly work your way farther and deeper from the dip stick hole, repeating the open and close claw motion and checking for tape.
If I didn’t find anything, I don’t know what you want to do. The worst case scenario is the tape unravels completely and covers half of the pick up screen, giving you low oil pressure at mid or full speed and you have to low speed ride back home. If You wrapped your tube with tape a couple times around, I don’t think you have enough tape to block the whole screen. You slowly go farther out on rides until you build up your confidence that everything is ok or verify an issue. These engines must pump a lot of oil, as there is only about 3 1/2 quarts in them.
I guess the oil Temperature reaches about 200 degrees? I don’t think the electrical tape melts or disintegrates - for better or worse. So the tape probably stays in the engine forever, if it is there.
I bought my flexible claw tool 35 years ago. Maybe Snap-On or Sears? It’s about 24 inches long. One of the best tools you could ever have.
Not sure how many hours to pull an engine, but at $100+ an hour, it is probably a $600 - $1000 job?
If I didn’t find anything, I don’t know what you want to do. The worst case scenario is the tape unravels completely and covers half of the pick up screen, giving you low oil pressure at mid or full speed and you have to low speed ride back home. If You wrapped your tube with tape a couple times around, I don’t think you have enough tape to block the whole screen. You slowly go farther out on rides until you build up your confidence that everything is ok or verify an issue. These engines must pump a lot of oil, as there is only about 3 1/2 quarts in them.
I guess the oil Temperature reaches about 200 degrees? I don’t think the electrical tape melts or disintegrates - for better or worse. So the tape probably stays in the engine forever, if it is there.
I bought my flexible claw tool 35 years ago. Maybe Snap-On or Sears? It’s about 24 inches long. One of the best tools you could ever have.
Not sure how many hours to pull an engine, but at $100+ an hour, it is probably a $600 - $1000 job?
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Poormanracing
Active Member
Pull the dipstick tube.do not run the ski.but chances are by putting the extractor in again you pushed the tape back in the the tube and into the motor.in hindsight as soon as you realized the tape fell off it would of stayed on the upper part of dipstick tube and you could of pulled the tube and problem solved.but by shoving shit in there you made things worse.the motor needs to be pulled and the pto cover needs to be pulled and the front oil pump need to be removed.not the whole motor but a good portion of it.as long as it's not in dipstick tube.but the sad thing is your not the first guy I've seen do this but I have had skis with low oil pressure and sure enuff tape blocked the oil screen
BucksNasty
Member
The lesson here is that electrical tape is meant to be used on electrical wires only. Electrical tape might be the worse selection for a oily environment you could make. Next time, duct tape it. I put that sh@#$t on everything.
Poormanracing
Active Member
Next time just put the tube in the hole tile it stops
Poormanracing
Active Member
30 year sea Doo tech never ever seen anyone of our tech measure a oil extractor.when you put it in the hole and push it down it stops at the motor the only reason you measure it is to make sure your down in the motor and not hung up on dipstick opening.but if you pull out a quart then you know your not in enuff you can tell when it's down you can feel it in the tube.
Digdog
Active Member
Use a felt marker
skiasylum
Well-Known Member
Makes perfect sense that the BRP service manual states explicitly to mark the oil extractor tube with a marker and the techs never do it. I know for sure you can go past the sweet spot at least 6 - 12 inches and not get as much oil out. But I also understand a tech could easily find the sweet spot without a mark because they do it everyday instead of once a year, but also most of the people asking questions on this forum are not usually techs.
For sure, I will never use tape again. A felt marker makes much more sense. Oddly enough, the official Sea-Doo BRP instruction sheet P/N 296 000 290 page 4/6 that comes with the oem oil change kit says "it is suggested to put some electrical tape on ( suction pump) tube at 475mm (18.7 in) from it's end".
BAD IDEA! I got the ski off the lift and rowed it to the ramp this weekend and now it's in the garage. The next step is to pull the dip tube (based on suggestions from here) to see if I can find anything, though I'm not optimistic. I really like to hear if there's a way to get into the oil tank without completely pulling the engine, if anyone knows. Or any additional thoughts. Thanks again for all input.
BAD IDEA! I got the ski off the lift and rowed it to the ramp this weekend and now it's in the garage. The next step is to pull the dip tube (based on suggestions from here) to see if I can find anything, though I'm not optimistic. I really like to hear if there's a way to get into the oil tank without completely pulling the engine, if anyone knows. Or any additional thoughts. Thanks again for all input.
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