Help! Decipher advanced diagnostic beeps..

[texamwalker]

98 sportster
when i put the key on the post i get the two short beeps which is correct i believe
but i get nothing when i push the starter button (yes ive checked for hot battery and good connections) (aslo ive cleaned cap and post with mild soapy water and a pencil eraser)

i took lanyard off, pushed starter button five times and got one short and one long beep which i believe verifies that it has entered adv diag mode

put the lanyard back on, hit the starter button and got two short beeps.

what does this mean? can it mean that my mpem is toast?

 

[howie099]

Did you try to jump the starter relay? You checked all the fuses also? The 2 beeps is good and 1 beep happens when you press the start button 5 times with no key. Sounds like the MPEM is good since the beeps follow what happens when you press the start button. You can do basic testing with the MPEM if you have the manual to check the settings.

 

[texamwalker]

Yes..jumped starter, turns over great!
All fuses good

you say 1 beep happens when you press start button five times with no key...but mine beeps twice when pushed five times with no key, one short followed by one long.
the two beeps dont come until after ive got it in advance diag mode, replace the key, then hit the starter button again

 

[howie099]

When you put the key on you should get 2 beeps telling you are ready to go. You hear that long beep when you try to start the boat with out the key in when you press starter switch 5 times. Did you test the DESS key post?

 

[Dr Honda]

2 beeps is all clear.

and............


PLEASE DO NOT START A SECOND THREAD ASKING THE SAME QUESTIONS.

 

[texamwalker]

@ honda.
did you even read what i was asking
you telling me two beeps is all clear is useless information
im very well aware that the two beeps is what youre supposed to hear when you put the key on, however, the two beeps while in adv diag mode does not mean all clear. and im getting conflicting info on what the mean. one guys says my mpem is fried and another says its in the wiring or the dess post. im trying to figure this thing out and i dont appreciate useless info or negative attitude

 

[texamwalker]

When you put the key on you should get 2 beeps telling you are ready to go. You hear that long beep when you try to start the boat with out the key in when you press starter switch 5 times. Did you test the DESS key post?

i ohm tested the dess post
key off
black to black/yellow=no continuity
white/grey to top teminal=0 ohms
black to ring= 0 ohms
key on
black to black/yellow=0 ohms
this is what i got

 

[Dr Honda]

OK... Fine. I don't know anything, and I have a negative attitudinal. (right) Did you look at my post count, or see the title under my name?

This will be the last you hear from me.

In advanced mode:
2 short beeps = can't read lanyard
2 long beeps = wrong lanyard


BUT..........

Since you get 2 beeps in regular mode... I'm sure you are getting 2 "standard" beeps in advanced mode. That = ready. (and should start) BUT... for some reason your MPEM isn't sending power to the solenoid.


Good luck on your repairs.

 

[texamwalker]

not saying you dont know anything.. im very aware youre much more educated on this than me. thats why im on here asking for help, and not giving it. so i apologize

what it seems like youre telling me is that the boat is giving me conflicting info.
i get two beeps when i put the key on which means "all sys go" but there isnt a damn thing going!
when i put it in adv diag mode and put on key and depress starter button, i get two short beeps(identicle to the beeps i get that supposed to mean alll systems are go).
so how can one set thing tell me its good then another tell me it cant read the lanyard.
i feel like im not explaining my symptoms properly

 

[howie099]

So your button works, you DESS system seems ok, and you jump the relay and the motor turns? You went through the list on the 'engine won't turn over' in the manual? It tells you to check the main fuse, check MPEM supply fuse, discharged battery, hydrolock, and the rest won't matter since it does turn over so the jet pump is not blocked.

If all is good I would go get a used non-dess MPEM to use as for testing or perm repalcement if yours is bad. You can find them for like $100 or so.

 

[texamwalker]

So your button works, you DESS system seems ok, and you jump the relay and the motor turns? You went through the list on the 'engine won't turn over' in the manual? It tells you to check the main fuse, check MPEM supply fuse, discharged battery, hydrolock, and the rest won't matter since it does turn over so the jet pump is not blocked.

If all is good I would go get a used non-dess MPEM to use as for testing or perm repalcement if yours is bad. You can find them for like $100 or so.

are you saying that there is some sort of mpem that i can buy that will get rid of this dess stuff? is it like a plug and play type thing or is it something that requires a lot of wiring to make the electronic ignition work. and where on earth can i find something like this?????

 

[howie099]

It is not a plug and play item. You have to modify your harness to make it work. You just get an MPEM with out DESS which saves alot of wiring. If you get one with the whole electrial box it would make it alot easier for testing since there is not that many wires to hookup to make the egine run. You have the stator wires, power, starter, start button , and temp sesnor. I thinks that is about it could of missed one. People use that system when they bench test new engines. You would doing the same but in the boat. Look for the post you see a boat with dual eninges with 2 seadoo jetski electral boxes in it and big black MPEM removed.

If it was me I would get one for testing for sure. My MPEM is working know on wood. I don't know how much your MPEM would cost new or used. For testing getting the whole box from a ski would be good testing tool to have. Far less than finding a dealer that might or might not work on it. For $85 an hour the testing box system is not that bad of an investment.

 

[ocod]

Copied from here
http://www.seadooforum.com/showthread.php?8477-97-Challenger-1800-Beep-Codes

Here is all the info on the DESS codes. It is possiable that you are getting a mixed code.
DESS Codes/ Beeps
2 Short beeps …the engine is ready to start
1 Long beep …no communication to MPEM
4 Short beeps… (on Jet Boats) Shifter is in gear
8 Short beeps…defective MPEM
1 Continual beep…engine over heating


Advanced Self- Diagnostic Mode


By pushing the start/stop button 5 times, you’re putting the DESS in advanced diagnostics. When you have successfully done this, you'll hear 1 short, 1 long beep then, put on the lanyard cap. The engines should start if everything is ok.

2 Short beeps means MPEM can’t read the lanyard cap or it has bad magnet. It could be a bad wire connection at the Lanyard switch.
2 Long beeps means wrong lanyard or bad connection of DESS connection
3 beeps signal the wiring harness of the DESS switch are grounded, or a short circuit somewhere.

You may have a bad connection in your wiring harness, from corrosion. Go through your electrical systems connectors and check for corrosion. Clean them with some contact cleaner, then die-electric grease.

To listen to the codes again start from the beginning.

Let me know how you make out, and if this helps.

 

[Dennis]

OK. Lets forget about the advanced diagnostics for a minute. Here's what I would do. Put the shifter in forward. Install lanyard and press the start button. You should get 4 beeps. If so then the key is good, the post is good, the stop/start button is good, neutral safety switch is good and the MPEM is not brain dead. Could it be we are just dealing with a defective starter solenoid? It is in the rear electrical box (follow the plug wires). Unplug the small wires from the solenoid. I'm not exactly sure about this but I think the black wire should be grounded all the time and the yellow/red wire should show 12 volts when you push the start button ( shifter in neutral). If this is true then the solenoid is defective. :cheers:

 

[ocod]

OK. Lets forget about the advanced diagnostics for a minute. Here's what I would do. Put the shifter in forward. Install lanyard and press the start button. You should get 4 beeps. If so then the key is good, the post is good, the stop/start button is good, neutral safety switch is good and the MPEM is not brain dead. Could it be we are just dealing with a defective starter solenoid? It is in the rear electrical box (follow the plug wires). Unplug the small wires from the solenoid. I'm not exactly sure about this but I think the black wire should be grounded all the time and the yellow/red wire should show 12 volts when you push the start button ( shifter in neutral). If this is true then the solenoid is defective. :cheers:

Thats makes good sense.
Also OP take a video then post up results.
Take usually takes care of problem form other threads.

Heres a recap for others.

1998 Sportster with single 717.
Ill try to make this short as possible.
10 days ago, everything operates normally
9 days ago. still get two short beeps but no igniton or turn over when start button is pushed
8 days ago. now no beeps at all when cap is put on post
7 days ago. one short nearly silent beep when cap is put on post
Gave up on it for a few days to do some reasearch but actully did nothing to the boat
Today, walked by it and put the key on to see what would happen with this haunted boat and the two beeps showed back up but still no igniton or turn over.
The battery is hot, and connections are good because i can jump starter relay with screwdrive and motor will turn over like crazy, just no fire.
My question is, what can happen that would make it go from working fine, to the two short beeps, then no beeps, then one quiet beep, then back to the normal two beeps with out me ever actually touching anything or moving the boat???

yes the starter spins the motor over great by jumping the solenoid.
But im pretty sure the boat gods are using me for a funny joke. this morning when i got out there and put the key on, the two beeps magically showed back up but still no turn over. i just walked back out there to try the 5 button push thing and realized that i had left the key on the post for the last two hours with the battery disconnect switch left on. it didnt kill the battery but now when i took the key off and put it back on, the damn thing decided it didnt want to beep anymore. got nothing at all. is there some sort of timer on it that wont allow it to beep if the key has been on the post for an extented period of time without the motor actually running?

 

[texamwalker]

OK. Lets forget about the advanced diagnostics for a minute. Here's what I would do. Put the shifter in forward. Install lanyard and press the start button. You should get 4 beeps. If so then the key is good, the post is good, the stop/start button is good, neutral safety switch is good and the MPEM is not brain dead. Could it be we are just dealing with a defective starter solenoid? It is in the rear electrical box (follow the plug wires). Unplug the small wires from the solenoid. I'm not exactly sure about this but I think the black wire should be grounded all the time and the yellow/red wire should show 12 volts when you push the start button ( shifter in neutral). If this is true then the solenoid is defective. :cheers:

Dennis,
Your reasoning makes perfect sense.
Heres a question. Assuming youre right and its a defective starter solenoid, wouldnt me jumping the two big lugs on the starter solenoid bypass it, make the engine turn over and fire, as long as the lanyard is on?
Because i have tried that and i get nothing but the motor spinning over like crazy but no heat to the plugs.

Ive also checked the red/yellow wire coming out of the starter button and it gets 12 volts when the starter button is pushed. The 12v goes all the way into the mpem, but the red/yellow wire coming out of the mpem going to the starter solenoid is not getting any juice.

Also remeber i do get the two beeps when i put the lanyard on and i get the 4 beeps if i push the starter button with shifter out of neutral.

 

[Dr Honda]

..... Assuming youre right and its a defective starter solenoid, wouldnt me jumping the two big lugs on the starter solenoid bypass it, make the engine turn over and fire, as long as the lanyard is on?...

Not necessarily... because....

Ive also checked .... but the red/yellow wire coming out of the mpem going to the starter solenoid is not getting any juice.

The MPEM isn't happy, and the transistor that should be starting the engine, isn't switching over. So... the MPEM is in "Stop" mode. (The problem with a single button system)

Also remeber i do get the two beeps when i put the lanyard on and i get the 4 beeps if i push the starter button with shifter out of neutral.

That's a Seadoo boat's way of saying... I'm not in neutral. If you pull it back from forward/reverse... you will get 2 beeps again, and it should start. If it's doing the same thing in neutral... then your safety switch could be bad.


Unfortunately... everything you've told us points to a bad MPEM.

 

[texamwalker]

Thats what im afraid of. Due to the fact that ive scoured the internet, ebay, and craigslist and i cant find one. The mpem has also been discontinued so i cant get it from the dealer.
So i guess my optimism wants it to be something else wrong.
Also having a hard time wrapping my head around how exactly a single pole single throw momentary switch can control the start and stop functions at the same time. Would love to have that dumbed down and explained to me.

 

[Dr Honda]

..................
Also having a hard time wrapping my head around how exactly a single pole single throw momentary switch can control the start and stop functions at the same time. Would love to have that dumbed down and explained to me.

In reality... it's not. It's simply controlling the computer, and asking to either start, or stop.

Basically... you push the button... then the MPEM says... "Is it running?" If no... then it will allow the starter to crank. If it says "Yes"... then it will kill the ignition.

The problem is... the MPEM "Kill" function is also tied into the Rev-limiter, so there is one transistor (J-FET) that switches between the 2 systems. That somehow got shorted, and burt out. There is a good likelyhood that the MPEM can be fixed... but it's not cheap. You best solution to get up and running again is to get an MPEM out of a 720 ski... and wire it in. It will work, and they are available. The only down side is you loose the neutral safety. (not really an issue)

 

[texamwalker]

In reality... it's not. It's simply controlling the computer, and asking to either start, or stop.

Basically... you push the button... then the MPEM says... "Is it running?" If no... then it will allow the starter to crank. If it says "Yes"... then it will kill the ignition.

The problem is... the MPEM "Kill" function is also tied into the Rev-limiter, so there is one transistor (J-FET) that switches between the 2 systems. That somehow got shorted, and burt out. There is a good likelyhood that the MPEM can be fixed... but it's not cheap. You best solution to get up and running again is to get an MPEM out of a 720 ski... and wire it in. It will work, and they are available. The only down side is you loose the neutral safety. (not really an issue)

Thank you. Looking for every alternative i can get.
would you happen to know what the part number is on the particular mpem youre referring to and where i might be able to find it?
and is it a computer that i can just plug in and go? like will all of the connectors fit, or will it require an extensive amount of wiring?

 

[texamwalker]

also..... i apologize for my ignorance about jet skis and jet boats.

what exactly is a 720 ski? is that a pwc or jet boat? and is that a model number or engine size. if im gonna search for one i might need some more info

 

[howie099]

720 ski is PWC. Any year will do most people opt for the NON DESS less wiring but you can wire the DESS if you get keys with it or go to the dealer.

 

[texamwalker]

720 ski is PWC. Any year will do most people opt for the NON DESS less wiring but you can wire the DESS if you get keys with it or go to the dealer.

ok, lets say i want the non dess system. where can i find it? is there a part number? is there some sort of store i can call? what would be the approx cost?
and my curiosity has the best of me....if seadoo is big on the whole proprietary computer system and really big on the dess system(for the un by-passable anti-theft that they brag on) why would there be a system out there that will let someone get around that? just curious

 

[howie099]

DESS didn't start to come out until 96'. The price varys on who is selling it. DESS is good and bad. The main bad part is you need to go to dealer for keys for it and bring your ski/boat with you or if you happen to loose a key you are screwed also. Just the MPEM used/New I seen them from $100-$250. The DESS ones are a little more with a key. I have also seen people selling the whole electrical box for the same price. If you buy an aftermarket MPEM the DESS is not there in any of the years since DESS is a seadoo thing and you need the device to program them.

The year really doesn't matter since all the 717's/720's engines are pretty much the same. Your retroing it so most people opt for the non DESS for less wiring that's the only reason. I seen people with the dual eninges install 2 DESS ports on the dash to keep the DESS the choice is yours. I am sure you find a seadoo tech somewhere to do it on the side for you. Everyone and use a little cash....

 

[texamwalker]

would you have any idea on a part number or where i can get it...like a website or a store. im very ignorant on this stuff and i get swamped on the internet with all the types of mpems i can buy...i just dont want to spend money on the wrong one.

and just so im clear on what your saying....there are mpems that i can buy that will run the ignition for this boat and totally eliminate all the dess stuff that keeps giving me a huge headache???