GTX DI engine problem

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chetan

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GTX DI engine problem/solutions?

I have a 2002 GTX DI with 76 hours. No salt water, housed in garage. On a recent trip, after adding some gas,the boat bogged down, and eventually wouldn't start. The shop tells me that one of the cylinders has no compression, and that they have to rebuild the engine. Does this seem probable. Do these engines have a history of trouble? Is it worth fixing for $2000-3000.? What would cause an engine with low use to fail like this? Any thoughts appreciated
 
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Compression?

If your familar with compression, I'd go to the auto parts house and buy a compression gage. You can get one for less than $20. Take out one of your plugs and turn the engine over 3 times........check the pressure. Do it 3 times to get a good average of the compression. Then check the other cylinder.
You should get between 130 and 140 psi......anything less than 100 psi is considered bad.......
Any high rev engine can come apart. Even if it's brand new. The carbs can lean out or low oil flow......it's impossible to tell. But I haven't heard anything but good talk from the people who have them in their ski.....for the most part, a really good line of Direct injected engines. :hat:
 
My GTX DI also just blew up, dealer told me the same thing. Except I had 344 hard hours. You dont have carbs so they arent the problem. Perhaps it was broken in wrong? someone ran it dry of oil? myn burned oil like a son of a gun, i filled it all the time.
 
chetan said:
What would cause an engine with low use to fail like this? Any thoughts appreciated
Click to expand...



There are several possible causes for early engine failure in PWC's. As another post stated, this engine is fuel injected so carbs can be ruled out. If the ski has been flooded or the engine has been water ingested, the oil is essentially "wiped" off the cylinders and causes excessive wear. Fuel injected engines can also run lean from faulty/dirty injectors or a clogged fuel pick-up screen or filter. Another thing I noticed is you stated the ski was garage kept. Most people who store their skis inside tend to forget to treat the fuel and fog the motor. Moisture collects in the crank and cylinders from condensation and pits or corrodes the bearings and cylinder walls. Over time, this damage becomes worse until something gives loose.
There are companies you can purchase complete engines from and do the swap yourself for much less than a dealer would charge.
 
Di...rfi?

Oh, how good it is to have others in this forum to look out for one another. In answering his question while on night shift, being a bit tired, I must have missed the DI in his request. But all are right, the two types of fuel injected engines, the DI (direct injection) and RFI (Rotax Fuel Injection) do not have carbs...........:eek: So thanks for the replies in pointing this out!.......That is what the forum is all about. Thanks again for catching that you guys! :cheers:
 
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Thanks for the responses Update: the shop tell me that a peice of the ring did some damage to the cylinder, the cyclinder wall, the crankshaft bearing and the oil pump, they say that the oil pump failed as well causing the motor to cease up. Grand total to rebuild: $4000. What are your thoughts? Is it worth it? Would it be cheaper to buy a refurbished motor and have them put it in? Are these motors any good? I"ve ready got 1000 invested
 
Sorry!

Man, sorry to hear the extent of the damage. Now the question is where do you go from here?
You can replace the 951 Rotax DI with a newly refurbished shortblock engine with a 2 year no fault warranty for $1499. That's with a core trade in of course. .........which means you'll be keeping your carbs, rotary, flywheel, magneto and the other associated parts to your engine....You can by a rebuild kit for your oil injection pump, or just buy a new one all together. If you installed it yourself, you'd save a bundle. But you'd have to have a manual, and a few tools. But formost, you have to have some mechanical apptitude............
Good luck, I hope this is taken care of in a way that suits you.
BTW, if you were to buy this same model and year ski from a dealer at retail cost, the value is $4985, that's a quote from Kelly's blue book. So the value of the engine and the condition of the ski, should still bring back a good return.:hat:
 
I got the same type of report

Sounds like ditto comments I just received from the shop I am using. My 2002 GTX DI had an engine over heat alarm go off. We shut the engine down right away. I did notice that the orange rubber hose between the eengine and tail had a hole burnt into it. I thought maybe this was causing the alarm. The shop told me that I had one cylinder with about 110 compression and the other at about 90 . To rebuild the engine it would be $3500. They did not expect to see any additional internal damage but made their disclaimer. I have 80 hours off my engine. The shop did tell me that this was one of Seadoos bad engine designs. And have seen a number of 951 DI engines come into with similar problems. My unit had one of the lowest engine hours on it though. I have taken the unit to a different shop for a second opinion and am waiting for their verdict. I did buy the unit used with only 13 hours on it. I have followed the manual guidelines to a tee. I had it winterized according to manufactuter's specifications annually. What gives? Sounds like Seadoo needs to have a recall and correct problem at their expense.
 
951 Di?

Welcome to the forum Semho...:cheers:

These are the first two experiences I've had with complaints of the engine going bad after such a short life. Others running the 951 DI or RFI have had some minor issues, but nothing as extreme as this. I do, like you wish there was something the engine manafactures could do, as far as a warranty based on hours of use verses how long you own it. Because it carries the price of a new car but is only used one tenth as much.
If your second opinion is the same, read the above post I made on the value of your Doo and the idea of buying and replacing the motor yourself. Or buying the motor and finding out how much it will cost to have it installed. Good luck to the two of you!...Any questions, please continue to use the forum to try and find your solutions. We love having you here!......:hat:
 
Omg!........

I'm sitting here LMAO with your response!.........I've never owned fuel injection!.........I'm strictly a natural aspirated type engine person, so naturally, it just flows out of my big MOUTH!.......LOL.......I should have let them know that they only get a short block and all the associated parts must be removed from their present motor............I'm so glad someone like Don comes in to read these post!.........I usually go back and edit myself when I see I've made a mistake..............but, since Don caught it, I'm leaving it!..........Good catch Don!....:biggrinjester:
I've got the 97 model 787 that's been my toy......I love working on it cause it's so easy. I've looked through the 1503 4 TEC engine, and it seems like it would be one heck of a challenge to dig into!...........:cheers:
Thanks for your reply Don!
 
I've rebuilt two 4Tec's this year....talk about making an old dog learn new tricks! My teeth were cut on the early to mid 90's PWC's. Gotta stay current with the technology though.....
 
Don, thanks for your contributions and the keen eye ;)

Chetan, sorry to hear about your misfortune. This is the reason that I suggest removal of the oil injection system on all seadoo's previous from about 2002, because when they suddenly fail it is of big consequence.

If you search on http://www.ebay.com you can usually find some engines that will fit, and if not there I'd shop around your local dealers and see who can give you the best deal.

For your rebuild,
 
Thanks for all the help. I am considering replacing the engine in my 2002 GTX DI instead of repairing it. Can someone recommend a company that sells good refurbished engines? Are these engines a good investment? Is it hard to do the work yourself? How much should the shop charge to do the exchange?
Does anyone have experience with SBT or PPG? How do these services work? Do you have to send them the engine by mail?
 
Cost to ship engine to PPG

I live in California. How much does it cost to ship an engine (Seadoo 951 DI)to PPG for repairs? Do you have to pay the freight both ways? Will they give you instructions on how to pack it?
What carrier do you use? Thanks
 
Sbt....

I've used SBT a few times. They stand behind their 2 year no fault warranty. In short, the way it works is you go to their site, look up your engine and purchase it. They'll charge you for the motor and hold a core charge until they receive your old engine. When the new engine arrives, you'll put your old engine in the crate your new one came in and re-label it and send it back to them, they'll have all the shipping taken care of (it's added to the price when you buy the engine).
They have a number you can call, which they ask you to call if you order the engine anyway. But you can work out all the details with them and get more answers than I can give you. There installation guide is pretty easy to follow, it's pretty much the same as the installation procedure in the shop manual.......You only get the short block, so you'll have to swap everything over to your new engine......magneto, flywheel, starter, etc...
I've never heard of the other one you asked about. Not saying one is better than the other, I am only experienced with SBT.
Good luck!......:)
 
About SBT

Like SeaDooSnipe, I have used SBT. In fact, I have probably installed a couple dozen over the past several years. We even used them sometimes when I was working with a large dealership. I have always had good luck with their engines and the warranty, as SeaDooSnipe said, is no-fault. If you have a problem, just contact them and they will send out a replacement for exchange. The installation is not that difficult. You will need a few specialized tools which you can either purchase or rent from SBT. If your core is damaged, they will charge you to either replace the broken part or will charge to fix it. I always get a replacement part from a salvage yard or from a used part vendor to send to SBT. As long as the core parts are OK, you will not be charged any extra. Keep in mind, this time of year they may not have that engine in stock so it might be a core first. This just means you will send them your engine first and they will rebuild and send back. Contact them and find out. They can even send you a pre-molded shipping box to send your engine in.
 
Need help with decision

I need to decide between having my 02 GTX DI motor rebuilt, or having a new one put in for $500 dollars more. The rebuild has a 30 day warranty, the new motor has a year warranty. Is it worth $500 for the longer warranty and a new engine? Is a good rebuild as good as a new one? During the 30 days I plan on taking it out a couple of times to make sure its running oK. Is that enough of a test?

Thanks
 
When you say $500 more for a NEW engine, are you saying a new OE engine from SeaDoo? If so, I do believe that would be much more than $500 more than say an SBT rebuilt engine with a 1 or 2 year warranty.
 
Waiting?

I was waiting here for your reply Don, knowing you do a lot of work with your shop. My question here for him, assuming he means the difference between getting his current engine rebuilt or purchasing a refurbished engine from SBT or another online source was, with the refurbished engine you get from SBT, you get the complete shortblock. If your getting your engine rebuilt by a local company, does he have to worry about getting a price quote only to have the total cost go up if the mechaninc finds that the crank (or another internal part) has to be replaced? With an online source, isn't all these parts covered by the refurbished engine?
:hat:
 
Yes, remanufactured engines are completely rebuilt....

Doing a complete rebuild would include rebuilding or replacing the crank assembly with all bearings and seals, installing new pistons/rings/bearings and machine work on the cylinders and Rave Valves if bore is increased +0.020 or more. I have found that it is cost and time effective to use a remanufactured engine from SBT. By the time you add the cost of parts, machine work, outside labor (crank work) and the disassembly and cleaning of all parts, an SBT engine is a sound option. Regardless of which you do, you will still have to swap all externals (mag, flywheel, pto, fuel system...ect.). As a shop owner, the SBT warranty is a plus. If there is a problem with the engine, we will warranty the labor for the swap and are not out hundreds of dollars for parts replacement. We have had great luck with SBT engines. You just have to remember, the cause of the first failure has to be determined and corrected or you will be chasing your tail. Hope that answered your question.
 
I received my second opinion back today from the second shop. The engine over heating alarm was caused by the Pressure Regulator Value being clogged with slit & sand therfore not allowing water to flow through thus causing my orange hose to burn out. The unit was put back together and water tested for 45 minutes and it tested out great they said. No need for any engine replacement. $500 repair job is much better than $3000 new engine replacement. The first shop is now on my blacklist. Thanks for your forum and all the insightfulness.
 
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