Ghetto PWC Ramp while 'Boats' get a real launch.

[SabrToothSqrl]

Short story; sign this

https://www.change.org/petitions/pe...at-goldsboro-lake-frederick-in-york-county-pa

Long story;

This is the closest body of water to my home. This is where my wife and I often use our PWC. This is where I often meet friends and their skis, or take them out on mine. However, this is the worst excuse for a launch I have ever seen. There are three launch facilities including separate parking lots in this same location. However two of them are ‘boat only’ (even though the first page of the PA Fish Commission Boater’s book states “PWCs are boats”). PWC are regulated to the clearly inferior launch facility. The boat launches have paved parking lots, designated tie-down areas, paved ramps, and floating docks. The PWC launch has none of these things. I am tired of getting hurt every time I launch or retrieve my watercraft. The ramp is comprised of slabs of concrete with spaces between them, large enough to break your ankle. There are no docks, so moving people from land to watercraft, especially people who have never been on a PWC is a balancing, time consuming, and flat out dangerous act. I am disgusted at the fact that I pay the same fees (registration), more insurance, and frankly, have water craft worth more than many of the ‘boats’ on this river. (Resulting in higher taxes to the Fish Commission). While I find it acceptable to have separate facilities. They must be equal. Never, at any other body of water, have I ever encountered separate facilities. Please help us out, and get this injustice corrected.
PA Fish & Boat
1601 Elmerton Ave
Harrisburg, PA 17110
717-705-7800
Thank you.

 

[Dr Honda]

You know what !!!! I'm tired of all your PWC people complaining about things !!!!!! How can you even think that you should have the right to launch next to me, and my boat!!! You are lucky that you even are allowed to ride on the same lake !!! You are all a bunch of hoodlums, and should burn in HE~!!


(LOL) :lols:


Sorry couldn't resist.


While, I don't run into that problem here (with ramps) I do run into that attitude with dam near every boater I know. (who doesn't own PWC) On the local chat board... PWC are refereed to as "Water Lice"... but when you show up to a meet-N-greet... the boaters always want to ride.


I'll read it over and sign.



But... a final thought, before getting my kids Breakfast... if it's a Fish and Game ramp... or even a ACE ramp... then they can't tell PWC that they can't launch at the "Boat" ramp. You pay for "Runabout" boat registration. So... the short answer is... YOU ARE A BOAT OF CLASS 16' AND UNDER!!!

The only thing they can separate is a Canoe, or row boat. (there are a few separate ramps for those around Pitt)


Personally... I say F--- whatever is posted... and launch at the nicer ramp. It's going to take a fight to actually change things. (that means a ticket, and going in front of a Judge)


Now... if it's a County, or semi-private ramp... that's different... but they shouldn't be allowed to separate, when the STATE says you are a runabout.

 

[nammer]

signed, good luck sqrl!

 

[SabrToothSqrl]

Thanks guys. I've called them a dozen times, written letters, etc. I am trying to get a face to face with someone there, just a meeting to discuss my concerns.

At a time, when PWC use was at it's peak, a separate launch was a great idea.

Now that it's declined a bit, to those who really enjoy it (vs. everyone and their mother). I think it's time to remove the signs.

Next time I go to the launch, I'll get some photos, so you can all see what I am talking about.

thanks!

And Doc, I would launch at the 'boat' ramp, however we've had beer cans thrown at us, and threats of violence. Not something I can defend if I am to leave my car / trailer in the parking lot. and I'd rather not have to bring my gun just to launch my ski...

 

[Dr Honda]

I don't live close to there... but what you are telling us, really kind of rubs me the wrong way.

Please post a picture of the signs. I want to read them word for word... and I want to see if there is an ACE or PFBC logo on it.

Like we both said... the book says... "PWC ARE BOATS". And, that will be your defense. If a ranger tries to write you a ticket... show him the book. And then explain that you need a dock.


Or better yet... I'll make you a new sign, and you can post it up. (lol)

 

[manolocross]

Signed... Good luck

 

[Spimothy Leary]

i signed... but I didn't sign the "free the cancer lady" ,,, i wasn't feeling sympathetic today...

actually here in SW Florida we have a similar problem but its a private ramp.. so they get away with it... none of our public ramps differentiate between boat/pwc's.. (and honestly, a pwc can launch in about 20% of the time that a boat can, unless the boat captain is VERY experienced and organized...)

one of our local marina's D&D marine, i used once, and i'll never use again, they have a decent paved boat ramp with docks, etc for all boats, but all PWC's must use the secondary ramp, about 50 yards thru a weed filled field, and just a seawall, no cleats, nothing... so you have to launch, tie a long rope to the ski and have somebody hold the rope while you go park, we did this when we launched 7 ski's in a group, had one guy holding 5 ropes, with current moving thru, it sucked !!! I complained, and told them i'd never use their ramp again, but fortunately I have choices, about 15 ramps just in a 20 mile radius... maybe more...

also, we have local issues with the marina's refusing to fuel pwc's , but accepting everybody else... the jetski junkies got really screwed sanibel marina a few weeks ago, at the halfway point of a 100 mile ride... and the marina basically told them to stick it... we have 4 marina's in town that refuse service to pwc's and get away with it... it screw's up some of our ride planning because we have to plan around the a-holes that won't give us gas...

 

[SabrToothSqrl]

How can they refuse to sell gas?! I'd be pissed!

 

[Dr Honda]

Leary: Unfortunately... Private can do what they want. But... if someone REALLY wanted to fight it... it would go under the discrimination laws. And, unless the owners could prove that there was a safety issue... I'm sure it could be done. But... since it takes time and money... I'm sure no one will change it legally.


In Pittsburgh... there is just a shortage of public ramps. You would think that with the nice rivers around here... every town would have a public ramp. BUT... they don't. Right now... there are 2 public ramps in the "Pittsburgh Pool". (the water around the point) One is just CRAZY busy, and it's in the main channel. SO... not only do you have to wait to use it... but on a weekend... it's so choppy... that it's very hard to load a larger boat.

The other one was new, and nice... but about 1 year after it was built... a pontoon boat, being retrieved with a FRIGEN' dump truck... drifted back, off the ramp. AND... when they worked to recover it... they wrecked the ramp. Now there is a gap in the concrete to loose a trailer. SO... if you boat is big(er) you can't use it. FYI... it's been that way for the past 4 years, and hasn't been fixed.


Anyway... there reason I'm pissed for the Squrl, is the fact that there is a shortage of ramps. AND... if it's a public ramp... that taxes, and registration built... then there is no LAW saying that can discriminate. SO... some local official took it on themselves to make up cr@p. I bet... when the signs were put up... there was some local official, who boated, and didn't want PWC "At his ramp".

Personally... I think that's where I would start my fight. Don't call Harrisburg. Unless you find a PWC owner... they don't care. (on a personal level) Find out when that sign was put up... Who ordered it to be put up... And if there are any local laws prohibiting a PWC on a "Boat" ramp. Then go directly to the person who ordered the sign, and ask why !! AND... ask him to sight the law that allows the segregation. Then... call the local news, and ask if they have a troubleshooter. They LOVE to grill local officials when they do things that aren't covered by a law. Not to mention... the report will gain attention, and the reporter will do your homework for you.

 

[SabrToothSqrl]

I'm relieved you guys agree with me. I wasn't trying to be a problem for the Fish Commish (although they often unfairly single PWC users out, and lump us all together as 'trouble'.)

Thank you for the ideas / support.

I'm only asking for one of two solutions (or both).

1. upgrade the facility at the 'PWC launch' to make it equivelent to the 'boat' launch
2. remove the signs stating no PWCs.

Right now I have a swollen ankle from injuring it on these ramps. I'll get a photo as well.

 

[Dr Honda]

Wellllll...................



1) That wont' happen. They don't have any money, and jobs are being cut across the board. Even if you work to get a "Grant"... it will take 3 or 4 years to get the money, and work done. But, if you want to look into a grant, to help the rebuild... check out Harmarville. They got some big grant to rebuild the ramp... and they now just got more money to repair when got messed up. (but this could be a lot of work, and slow response)

2) I think that's the fastest thing for YOU to do. (hint-hint, Nudge-Nudge)


you are not being unreasonable at all. AND... I would grab the first ranger you found, and ask him when, and who put the signs up. AND... ask him what law allows it. (if it's a special local law)


If that ramp is very local... I would go with a lawn chair, and a clip board, with a physical petition, and grab every PWC guy you see.

 

[Spimothy Leary]

Leary: Unfortunately... Private can do what they want. But... if someone REALLY wanted to fight it... it would go under the discrimination laws. And, unless the owners could prove that there was a safety issue... I'm sure it could be done. But... since it takes time and money... I'm sure no one will change it legally.


In Pittsburgh... there is just a shortage of public ramps. You would think that with the nice rivers around here... every town would have a public ramp. BUT... they don't. Right now... there are 2 public ramps in the "Pittsburgh Pool". (the water around the point) One is just CRAZY busy, and it's in the main channel. SO... not only do you have to wait to use it... but on a weekend... it's so choppy... that it's very hard to load a larger boat.

The other one was new, and nice... but about 1 year after it was built... a pontoon boat, being retrieved with a FRIGEN' dump truck... drifted back, off the ramp. AND... when they worked to recover it... they wrecked the ramp. Now there is a gap in the concrete to loose a trailer. SO... if you boat is big(er) you can't use it. FYI... it's been that way for the past 4 years, and hasn't been fixed.


Anyway... there reason I'm pissed for the Squrl, is the fact that there is a shortage of ramps. AND... if it's a public ramp... that taxes, and registration built... then there is no LAW saying that can discriminate. SO... some local official took it on themselves to make up cr@p. I bet... when the signs were put up... there was some local official, who boated, and didn't want PWC "At his ramp".

Personally... I think that's where I would start my fight. Don't call Harrisburg. Unless you find a PWC owner... they don't care. (on a personal level) Find out when that sign was put up... Who ordered it to be put up... And if there are any local laws prohibiting a PWC on a "Boat" ramp. Then go directly to the person who ordered the sign, and ask why !! AND... ask him to sight the law that allows the segregation. Then... call the local news, and ask if they have a troubleshooter. They LOVE to grill local officials when they do things that aren't covered by a law. Not to mention... the report will gain attention, and the reporter will do your homework for you.

correct, it isn't easy to push discrimination... we actually joked but were serious that we need to bring a minority with us... (don't take this wrong, but its true) if a white guy gets discriminated against, nobody cares.... if a minority gets discriminated against', for whatever reason... then things get interesting... the newspaper won't care if a pwc gets refused, but the newspaper might care a lot if a minority on a pwc gets refused... just saying.... even al sharpton might like that...

 

[SabrToothSqrl]

Dr. you are correct. I've considered a card table, tent, etc. to get a physical petition going, and the attention of the PWC community.

I'll see if I can organize an event and actually get a tent setup!

 

[blairwill4]

I keep trying to sign this thing but its giving me an error. Im at my pos work computer so ill try when i get home tonight. Best of luck brother.

 

[Spimothy Leary]

double post. sorry

 

[Spimothy Leary]

doc brought up a good point.. find a ranger, stare at the sign with him, and find out who you need to talk to, that actually has some control in the matter.
and frankly it seems to me that your not asking for much,
however.. this isn't how bureaucracy works

just asking them to stop regulating the use of ramp #2 to boats only Ie : a pwc is a boat....
or....
to reword the regulation to not exclude pwc's... ie: reword or remove sign.

it sounds easy, but probably isn't...

so option b,
demonstrating that possibly its a hazard
here's pictures of the gap, etc... your forcing some boaters to use a dangerous ramp, etc...

option c, a pwc loads faster, there are very few pwc's, they don't create additional hazards, allowing them to use the ramp won't significantly impact boater activity, etc... yada yada...

i can't think of any additional points....

all this sounds easy but not until you find out how deep the rabbit hole goes with regards to your city/county regulations, sadly in most cities something just this simple easily turns into something that the freaking council will have to make a vote on, yada yada, you can see where i'm going.... unfortunately it takes dedication and moxy to overturn regulation 15C section 12 paragraph 5....

but start with a fwc guy or the equivalent and if they agree and hope and pray that you can bypass all the bs and just talk common sense with somebody in charge and get the sign removed, end of story. sadly, there's about a 4% chance of that happening... i wish things were that easy we'd be fixing stuff all the time....

 

[Seadoobuddy]

Signed......I also noted that since I'm in Michigan I meet 2 of my friends (from PA.) there for vacations and such.

Josh,,,take a pic of your ankle before it heals.

 

[WhiskeyD]

2) I think that's the fastest thing for YOU to do. (hint-hint, Nudge-Nudge)

haha thats hilarious

you are not being unreasonable at all. AND... I would grab the first ranger you found, and ask him when, and who put the signs up. AND... ask him what law allows it. (if it's a special local law)


If that ramp is very local... I would go with a lawn chair, and a clip board, with a physical petition, and grab every PWC guy you see.
Great ideas. I'm sure you could rack in a few hundred petition signatures in no time if its a busy ramp.

Signed. Fortuntely we dont seem have many problems with boats and PWCs mixing around here.

 

[Seadoobuddy]

Here is the email i received from Sarah Thomas.

Dear Tim,

Thanks for signing my petition, "Pennsylvania Fish & Boat Commission: Upgrade the PWC launch at Goldsboro/Lake Frederick in York County, PA."

Can you help this petition win by asking your friends to sign too? It's easy to share with your friends on Facebook - just click here to share the petition on Facebook.

There's also a sample email below that you can forward to your friends.

Thanks again -- together we're making change happen,

Sarah Thomas

 

[SabrToothSqrl]

The ankle has just a line on it. Hurts like hell, but not much to see.

 

[bell99man]

Signed. Not sure how much weight all of the out of town signatures carries but it's worth a try.

 

[racerxxx]

Dr. you are correct. I've considered a card table, tent, etc. to get a physical petition going, and the attention of the PWC community.

I'll see if I can organize an event and actually get a tent setup!

Not kidding about this, but see if you need a permit to set up a tent. You need to stir the pot with their spoon if you know what I mean.

I just signed it. And to be totally honest, I just used a ramp exactly like this in NJ yesterday. If you look close you can see the separations between the concrete blocks.

http://goo.gl/maps/iCJfq

 

[lamajama]

Signed. Fortuntely we dont seem have many problems with boats and PWCs mixing around here.

Someone signing from Canada probably will not help but I can echo some of the issues - fortunately I've never seen
a "No PWC" launch here (and like some have said we're on the water in less than a minute and off the water in 2-3) but
most of the "river boaters" with aluminum hulls etc make a point of never waving or acknowledging a PWC.

Many of the craziest and most entertaining times in my life have seriously been at launches watching boaters. Never
ONCE has it been a PWC rider. We're not the problem at the boat launches. I guarantee you that.

 

[Spimothy Leary]

Signed. Not sure how much weight all of the out of town signatures carries but it's worth a try.

we all vacation there ... thats what I explained to them lol

 

[skewba98z28]

You know what !!!! I'm tired of all your PWC people complaining about things !!!!!! How can you even think that you should have the right to launch next to me, and my boat!!! You are lucky that you even are allowed to ride on the same lake !!! You are all a bunch of hoodlums, and should burn in HE~!!


(LOL) :lols:

This is really bad where I ride with the bass fisherman. They treat us like a bunch of idiots for the most part and then bust out across the lake and run 75 mph with just the lower unit in the water. I have been almost ran over a few times by them. I'd love to have a Riva modded RXP-X so I could run next to them and give them the finger! LOL