Fuel Baffle Fuse Replacement

[1648aws]

Thanks to all who posted pictures and instructions on how to cut open the fuel baffle and bridge the blown fuse. I now have two 1997 GTX's with working fuel gauges.

However, out of all the threads and posts I've read, no one has discussed, or I should say no one has answered the question of, do I need to put an in-line fuse somewhere else. Everyone just talked about by-passing the fuse. Not trying to sound paranoid but fuses are there for a reason, especially in a fuel tank.

So................

Should an in-line fuse be placed on the sending wires coming out of the baffle? If so does anyone have an idea what the amps of the F1 fuse? Voltage must obviously be 12 Volt DC.

If the answer is no to an in-line fuse, how does the ordinary person know that by-passing the fuse is ok? Remember Archie Bunker (for us old guys) put the penny in his blown screw in fuse (which is by-passing the fuse) and almost burned his house down.

Thanks in advance for your answers.

 

[El Toro 33809]

We did not put one in when we repaired ours. To me they are not the traditional item that comes to mind when you think of a fuse. I think you are good to go without one. I just asked Meathead, and he thinks you are good too.

 

[1648aws]

Thanks El Toro

There's still that nagging concern about not having a fuse. I read somewhere in the many posts that someone thought the fuse was to protect the printed circuit board in the baffle. Two reasons I have a concern with that train of thought. #1. Fuses in general are meant to prevent fires first and protect the part second. #2. Why would the manufacturer put a fuse in to protect a board that is not meant to be a replaceable part. The fuse can't be replaced without breaking into the baffle somehow and neither can the board so a fuse to protect the board doesn't make sense.

I know a lot of people on the forum have fixed their fuel baffles with the fuse by-pass method and no one has posted that their machine blew up from a spark but all my children ride the machines and now a grandchild will be a passenger so I'm being extra careful. It would be great however, if someone could tell me the amps of that fuse so I can put an in-line fuse in to make me feel better, OR, have someone explain to me how eliminating that fuse would never cause a spark because.......................................................

 

[El Toro 33809]

I understand your concerns. I certainly would not want to be on a boat or a PWC that burns/explodes. I would think if this repair was dangerous someone would have mentioned it here already. If you are uncomfortable, you could purchase a new baffle. Would you be able to install an inline fuse?

 

[bell99man]

Have you looked at the discussion on the pwctoday forum. I think someone pointed out that the circuit was already fuse protected at the mpem. Here is a cut-&-paste from there.

Re: Fuel Gauge Out: Blown Fuel Baffle Sending Unit
just keep the tank full and it can spark all day long, gasoline doesn't burn!! only in a vapor state will gasoline cause you problems.

it is still fuse protected at mpem.

i actually find fuse is problem 70% of time compared to float, but i do not repair doo's all day long so my data means f'all.

the repair threads on this search link - the riva posting has had pics deleted but i think greenhulk still has a good posting on circuit board repair.

http://www.pwctoday.com/search.php?searchid=1972808

 

[1648aws]

El Toro:

I agree that someone would have posted a thread if the repair caused a fire. I should be able to install an inline as long as I can determine the amp of the F1 fuse. I'll tap into the sending unit wire and use extra wire to bring the in-line fuse either up to the front of the machine under the hood or around the engine. Just somewhere that is more accessible than the top of the fuel tank.

Bell99man:
Thanks for the cut and paste from pwctoday. I did not know it was still fuse protected at the mpem. I'll have to check that out a little more thoroughly. If anyone can give direction here it would be appreciated to try and locate the specific fuse so I can pull it and see if the gauge goes blank. Then I'll be 100% sure.

I agree with the comment on the other board that liquid gasoline doesn't burn, however, I don't know who can run their machine on a full tank all the time. Anyone who has a two cycle Seadoo knows they love fuel so vapour is around.

I read on another thread that a guy with a 1997 GSX pulled the fuse off of the baffle and it actually had some information on it. "digico ltee Part#956-1008.00-02" Digico Ltee is an electronics manufacturer in the province of Quebec. Since I replied last I have sent them an email explaining the fuel baffle situation and asking for some information on that part #.

 

[bell99man]

It depends on which sending unit you have. One of mine has the round fuse (looks like a water tank) which was actually ok. It has all the requirements printed on the top. It says "250ma 250v fuse" printed around the top. I would assume the other type sender is pretty similar. The other one I could not read, so I just jumped her out.

 

[1648aws]

I went back and re-read that thread you posted in your reply bell99man but this time I realized it has 3 pages to it. A guy there did place an external in-line fuse using 12vdc with a 250Ma rating (Equal to 1/4 amp) and he has had it installed for over two years. I think I'm going to go ahead and do that as soon as I hear back from Digico Ltee.

I'm not 100% sure on this but.................. some small types of fuses used on circuit boards are what they call a wax fuse. Unlike a regular fuse that generally burns through a wire to cut off power, this fuse melts the wax and then the circuit remains open, so no more current can flow through. I've dealt with waxes and oils in the industrial petrolatum industry and I know that a wax or petrolatum has a limit as to how many times at certain temperatures it can be heated then cooled and expected to return to it's normal state. After the limit is reached the wax will no longer solidify as it was when new. There are spikes and surges in any electrical scenario especially upon start up. This little spike heats the wax up in the fuse a tiny, tiny bit each time and I'm sure eventually the wax will no longer return to it's solid state, therefore the fuse lets go and opens the circuit. I ran this theory past my son-in-law who is a GM mechanic and he agrees because vehicles sometimes have them and quite often the fuse goes because of the wax being damaged from initial spikes not really from an overload.

 

[1648aws]

Interesting.......... one guy on the other thread said his fuse was also 250ma / 250v. That's one I can't figure out because a Seadoo is a 12v system just like a car not 250v

 

[1648aws]

Alright.................. so here's a little update as to why some of the baffles will have a 250ma / 250v fuse. I've added the link below (and there are several others that can be found with a google search) that clarify the reason a 250v fuse would be allowed on a 12v system. In short what the post states is.......... when the current reaches 250ma, regardless of voltage, a fuse that is rated at 250ma will blow (open circuit). The fuse rating of 250v means that once the fuse is blown and the circuit is open, the current will not jump or arc over the open circuit as long as the voltage is below 250v. Above 250v and the current will continue to operate as the voltage is high enough to force, (jump / arc) over the open circuit in the blown fuse. Therefore a 12 volt Seadoo is well below and should be good to go.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100104141616AAn3euG

It is suggested that a "fast blow" fuse be used for circuit boards.

 

[bell99man]

You have really been digging. Thanks for the updates. I think an in line fuse is good but can you find one rated like that and if so, post it here for us?

 

[1648aws]

I'll see if I can find one today or tomorrow and I'll post back.

I will be looking for 250ma but I'll want higher than 12v because if there is any kind of spike in the Seadoo 12v system it could conceivably jump / arc over a blown 12v fuse.

 

[JJinSC]

I find this thread very interesting as I have researched this subjects as well. Before doing the fix the last time, I was curious as to why these things kept blowing. For my case, the fuse in the baffle lasted for 13 years. I repaired it. Then the float sank, so I went ahead and had the dealer put in a brand new baffle unit with new float. 1 month later, the fuse blew again. The dealer did a warranty replacement. 2 months later, the fuse blew again. This time the warranty was up and I again did the repair. The gauge is still working, since I made the last repair 3 months ago.

All that said, I have a theory on what may actually cause these fuses to blow. Or at least why mine kept blowing. Around about all this time, I started having intermittent problems with my beeper/buzzer. I am pretty sure all of the gauges are on the same circuit and assume the buzzer may be as well. If that is the case, could a bad buzzer create enough current draw to cause the fuse to blow? I have now replaced my buzzer, but it seems that these two issues are quit common around the same point in life of SeaDoos. I am not an electrician nor expert, just some things I have noticed and played with in my mind. I may be way off here, but was curious as to the danger of bypassing the switch as well as what would cause the fuse to keep blowing? Any thoughts?

 

[1648aws]

Hey JJinSC: I'm not an electrician or expert either but years of working on projects with my father and brother who are both electricians I've seen enough times that when one electrical component goes so do others at the same time. The printed circuit board for my hot tub blew the fuse but when we put the board on a test bench, several diodes and resistors were shot also.

Do you recall the type of fuse on all of the baffles you went through? It seems the guys on the threads that have good fuses are the round black ones that are rated at 250ma / 250vdc. Most of the baffle fuse repair posts are based on the tiny flat rectangular fuses like both of mine were.

Here in Ontario Canada we have a chain of specialty electronic stores called Sayal. I have called them and they have small glass tube fuses that are 250ma / 250v. They will fit into a standard plastic in-line fuse holder. I believe the rating of 250v is for ac but that's ok because it's the equivalent of 125vdc so I'll be good to go.

 

[JJinSC]

Yes, all the fuses in the baffles I have worked on have been the small flat rectangular fuses.

 

[1648aws]

Looks like a pattern with the small flat fuses.

I picked up the 250ma / 250v fuses today along with the in-line fuse holders. Total cost about $9.00 to do two machines and I have three spare fuses.

I want to take the machines out again this coming Saturday so I need to install these inline fuses before then. If I remember, I'll take a few pictures of the installation and post them here.

 

[El Toro 33809]

Thanks for the update. Look forward to seeing the photos.

 

[1648aws]

The fix is complete. I'm trying to upload pictures of the process but after uploading it just reads error. Any thoughts?

 

[ocod]

The fix is complete. I'm trying to upload pictures of the process but after uploading it just reads error. Any thoughts?

Open photo bucket account.
Upload to photobucket and copy image link. Then paste it in your thread.

 

[El Toro 33809]

Reduce the size of the photos?

 

[JJinSC]

Use photobuckets size for message boards.

 

[1648aws]

Hopefully this will work. I'll post my comments for each picture then add the link.

Mine has two red wires coming out of the fuel baffle with about a 14 inch extension to the first connector.
http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s403/1648aws/IMG-20120719-00010.jpg

This is where the 14" extension plugs into. Notice the two blue wires from the oil tank sensor join into the plastic sleeve.
http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s403/1648aws/IMG-20120719-00011.jpg

Trace the wires up to the front of the machine as it's much easier to work here and it gets your soldering gun away from the gas tank. On mine, the wires became exposed just before the second connection.
http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s403/1648aws/IMG-20120719-00012.jpg

An electrician told me that on a 12 volt two wire sending unit like the fuel baffle, it doesn't matter which wire you put the fuse on. Cut one red wire but be careful not to cut the blue wire from the oil tank.
http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s403/1648aws/IMG-20120719-00013.jpg

This is the type of fuse holder I bought. Make sure it is the correct size for the fuse you buy. The fuses are 250ma / 250v. Because there is always moisture around in a Seadoo environment, I put some dielectric grease on the metal ends of the fuse to help prevent corrosion. Notice the red wire on the inline fuse holder is continuous. You have to cut it in the middle.
http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s403/1648aws/IMG-20120719-00014.jpg

After cutting and stripping the wires, I pre tinned them with solder. Remember to put the pieces of protective shrink tube on each end BEFORE you solder the wires together. Yes, I forgot the first time.
http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s403/1648aws/IMG-20120719-00015.jpg

Although I have an industrial heat gun, there are too many other wires and plastic covers in the way that could be damaged so I just used the hair blow dryer to shrink the protective tubing.
http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s403/1648aws/IMG-20120719-00016.jpg

Use a couple of plastic tie wraps and secure it to the surrounding wire harness.
http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s403/1648aws/IMG-20120719-00017.jpg

And........... voila.... a working gas gauge with fused protection!!!
http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s403/1648aws/IMG-20120719-00018.jpg

 

[bell99man]

Got both of mine out on the water today! But I had an age defining moment and forgot to plug one of the gauges in, doh.

Anyway, the one that I did plug in would not give the 2 beeps (been that way since I got them) until the end of this trip. It died for no apparent reason and wouldn't do anything; no light, no start, nothing! Had the bro-in-law drag me back to the dock as I kept occasionally trying the key. Tried it one last time at the dock and "beep beep!" Tried it several more times and got the beeps every time. It started right up so I drove them back to the launch.

I think this will be hard to diagnose but I wonder if this might be related to the original gauge issue?

Kevin

 

[1648aws]

Hey Kevin:

I have two 1997 Gtx and I have had that problem periodically for 8 years on one machine. Shortly after I bought them (used), this would happen on both machines. You would run along wide open and for no apparent reason the machine would die. The dealer said sometimes older machines have had too many key codes in them and it causes grief. Regardless if this is right or not, after he cleared all the codes from both machines and only inputed the two keys we had, there were no more issues. It's never happened again on one machine but every year it does it on the other machine, especially on the first run after puling from storage and summerizing. Even though I can't see any corrosion of any kind, I wipe the post and key down with a waterless hand cleaner towel. Usually no problems for the rest of the season. With wear and tear, it's possible the contact point on the key to the post is so small that any contamination will cause it to cut out especially with any waved actions bumping the seadoo.

Give it a try, nothing to lose.

 

[bell99man]

Worth a shot, thanks.

Kevin