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Electric transfer pump + 5 gal gas can = ?

alha

New Member
Guys, not sure if this is the right place to post this, if not, the mod can move it to the appropriate place. I came to a rude awakening 2 years ago on vacation when I wanted to be a good guy and buy 4 new fuel cans for my bro in law so we didn't have to haul his ski out of the lake and drag it back into town to refuel it. I got the cans, filled them up, and brought them back to the cabin. I noticed the nozzle looked a little weird when I bought them, but didn't give it a 2nd thought. That is, until I tried using them to fill his big ski. It was like an 90 year old guy with a prostate issue trying to take a pee! After suffering thru the 1st one, I had to time it to see how painful this was going to be. It took all of 5 minutes to empty a 5 gal can... I wanted to take a header off the roof! Almost 20 minutes to fill a ski up. Talk about the arms getting a little tired.

Well, at this point I decided to look into buying a few Real cans, and found out after doing a little researching that due to CARB rules, those types of tanks are outlawed, I think in 2009 or 10. So, I thought about buying a pre-made fuel transfer tank, and took a look at Northern. They were a pretty penny, and I'd already spent a bunch on those gas cans, so I thought there had to be a better way.

I noticed that many of those tanks had an electric pump on them, and thought that was a great idea, 10+ gallons a minute, that's the way to go! I looked into getting just a pump, but didn't see anything too practical, and besides, I only went out with him a few times a year, so I didn't want to dump a big chunk of change into the setup, because in all honesty, they were His skis.

Fast forward a couple years, now I am going to be having my own, and also we plan on taking them out a number of times during the summer, so fuel becomes a little more of a pressing issue. I took a look around, and decided that they still make good fuel cans, now they just call them Racing cans, and this was the way they get around all the crappy restrictions on the current crop. Of course, being Racing, that means the price could be double what the 'normal' cans were.

I found a company selling VP Racing 5 gallon fuel cans http://www.ebay.com/itm/281312721415?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 (here is the Mfg's site on the same cans http://www.vpracingfuels.com/containers) and the price each came to about the same as a regular can in the store. I talked with the seller a little about them, he said they def filled faster than the big box ones, but if I really wanted to fill it fast, I should use the funnel, that is what they often do in track settings. That made sense to me, but I still had that electric pump stuck in the back of my head.

I was looking around Fleabay at some pumps like this one http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tuthill-Fill-Rite-FR1210G-12V-DC-15-GPM-Rotary-Vane-Fuel-Gas-Transfer-Pump-/291126401813?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43c87c5b15 which seemed fairly capable, it should theoretically drain a 5 gal can in under 30 seconds, which sounds a heck of a lot better than 5 minutes.

Of course, using something like that requires a little MacGyvering, and here lies my question. Seeing as I am dealing with a fairly flammable liquid, I want to be sure I do this properly. Most of the pumps of this style are set up to go into the 2" bung of a 55 gallon drum. Obviously, this won't work in a standard plastic fuel can, I will have to adapt a flexible pickup hose. The biggest question I have is regarding grounding. I know they have the drums in both plastic and metal, and that the fill hoses are grounded to the pump, but can anyone see any issues with what I would like to do? I plan on getting a cheap garage sale 2 wheeler, and mounting the pump onto a shelf I will attach to it, with a 12v deep cell battery at the bottom. Flexible hose to gas can, handle into ski, and away we go!

Thanks for reading all this, and if anyone has any comments to share, please feel free, because this seems like a winner all around to me. Unless of course I missed something that would cause me to have a Very Bad Day... Thanks!
 
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I will move this to the off topic board.

I have not looked at your links yet, burning most cases electric pumps that are not commercial duty applications are for FUEL OIL or DIESEL. Not gasoline. Most are not rated for gasoline due to its explosive ease,


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Cheap electric pumps, and gas, will not end well. (as in BOOM)


If you look around... there are new spouts for the modern water cans under the label EZ-Pour. Look into those. I LEGALLY can't say to use one on a fuel can.... but they pour WATER great !! (hint-hint) If you have a Tractor supply close... they stock them.

I agree 100%. The new EPA fuel spouts SUCK !!! I honestly spill more fuel than with the old spouts. AND... since it takes 10x longer to pour out 5 gal... I releasing more fumes into the world.


It's just an example of how some engineers, and Lab tech's have no biz spec'ing out a product.
 
Thanks for putting it into the right location. And yeah, cheap pumps are def an issue, but these are actually designed for gasoline, that's why they are priced at around $250 for the pump, hose and nozzle. The main issue I see is that they are designed to fit into a drum or tank, and of course mine would be mounted on a platform on a 2 wheeler with a soft suction to the tank not a permanent mount. Tuthill has been making fuel pumps for a very long time, at least according to their website. I have to say that I am pretty sure if I asked them if what I was doing was OK, they'd probably say No, for liability reasons alone. Lawyers and all that. I'm pretty sure it's feasible, just looking to see if anyone sees flaws in my planned design.
 
Ya know, my buddy and I were discussing a similar thing recently and we came to a similar conclusion. I actually made a deal with my father. I would replace all his old gas cans with new ones, so I ended up with a few of the old style gas cans, and he has the new EPA cans (He also drives a Prius) go figure.

At any rate my buddy and I questioned why we haven't used electric fuel pumps (automotive style) for this type of transfer application.

Kind of like this one
 
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You can put a vent in your gas can, just drill a small hole near the handle, open and close it with a sheet metal screw.

I've got an old external fuel pump I use to sometimes transfer gas, but it's pretty time consuming. If I need gas when I'm on the lake I just fill up at the marina.

Lou
 
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Yeah, I'd thought about that, but this way I get to have a new toy to play with! And having it fill as fast if not faster than at a regular gas pump is a bonus, especially when some of the lakes we're on don't have a marina, or it is inconvenient to get to, and then there's the cost of fuel there. I think with these cans, and their larger sized vents, we should be in pretty good shape when drawing gas out at a pretty decent clip with the pumps I mentioned above. Decisions, Decisions...
 
My ski is very thirsty, and I get max 70 miles on a tank, so i've been using VP can's for a couple of years now, IMO they dump pretty dam fast. If I know I'm going to need more than 5 gallons but less than 10 for a top off i'll put 4 gallons each in the tank's for ease of use when pouring.

if you can put the can on top of the ski or on a dock, a simple jagoff siphon from harbor freight (pep boys, northern, etc) works pretty well, and its super fast, and effortless and they are wonderfly cheap.. under $10

edit... I think the official term is Hopkins pump

side note: the best (cheapest) way to get the old nozzles (vs the spill proof bs environmental ones) is at garage sales.

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Several years ago I had the same problem as the OP....new cans with the self venting system that didn't work & that drain very slow.
I solved it one way then improved on it similar to what Lou did.
First year I just used a big funnel and took the whole spout off the can and just poured into the funnel... a lot faster but hard to tell when tank is full and avoid some spillage.

Next year I put my old spouts (that I kept) onto the new cans and drilled a "about" 3/8" hole at the back top of the can and plugged it with a rubber stopper from Lowes. I drilled through the stopper and put a double strand of fishing line through it and around the handle of the can.....so it just hangs there when removed from the hole.
Works great for my ski and boat. I hope this idea helps others with the same problem.
 
Just so I understand, you drilled a hole in the vent stopper to run line thru it, so it wouldn't get lost? With the hole now in the stopper, doesn't it vent fumes into the storage area? Trying to see understand how it works, as I really can't handle gas fumes in the garage. Or do you just use this can when you are using the ski, and otherwise keep it empty? Thanks for the clarification.
 
NO, I drilled the hole in the stopper from side to side on the part that sticks above the top of can. There is no hole all the way through from top to bottom of the stopper. I use this can all the time for lawn mowers, ski, boat, snowthrowers too....
 
Yeah, I saw that, but I'm not sure it will me much faster than the new style cans since it just relies on gravity. I guess you could just lock the handle open and hang around while it's filling. It's safer, probably, but then, I suppose so is just pouring it from the jugs. I'm ideally looking for speed as well. But safe of course. Hence me looking for good advice or suggestions where I might find it. I can't imagine in this big 'ol country that I am the first person to think about doing this, especially after how they totally screwed up the new cans a few years back.
 
I don't know if this is true in all states but in KY gas cans and portable containers are not allowed on public and commercial docks, so be careful where you refuel.

Lou
 
I don't know if this is true in all states but in KY gas cans and portable containers are not allowed on public and commercial docks, so be careful where you refuel.

Lou

ya, it varies, I've never been stopped by a FWC for filling at the dock, but sometimes i've seen sign's that said "no fueling at dock".

I can't recall that it ever stopped me, but I have seen the signs..
 
I suppose worse case you just drag it up to the shore then, as that wouldn't be at a "dock", correct? I'd think it would be safer to do it from a dock than on shore, especially if the shore isn't perfectly sloped, flat sand. Something like most areas around the lakes up here in MN. Well, worst case I'll prob get a little hand slap as I am a newbie, but here's hoping it isn't an issue. I suppose one other way would be to take the can with you, pull out from the dock 25-50', pour it in, and then bring the empty back to the dock? Appears to be technically legal, but major PITA. Oh well, not worrying about it, at least till I actually get it. 1 1/2-2 months.. sheesh. :/
 
I guess guarding my old 5 gallon plastic gas cans would be a good idea.
I drilled out the small vent bigger. They drain quickly into what ever they are filling. I plow snow, so in big storms it's a good idea to carry extra fuel. Most of the gas stations might close down in a huge event. Making $50 an hour is worth having a fuel reserve.
 
yes, I'd say if you have the older style, def treat them like gold. As more and more of the old ones wear out/go bad for whatever reason, and ppl start buying the new ones and seeing how poorly they work, yeah, someone might just take a fancy to yours. Oh, and I tried out my new 'racing' ones this afternoon. Full with over 5 gals of fuel, to empty, took less than 1:40, compared to 5+ mins with the 'new and improved' style. Very glad I got them, though still have the pump idea rattling around the old noggin... :)
 
yes, I'd say if you have the older style, def treat them like gold. As more and more of the old ones wear out/go bad for whatever reason, and ppl start buying the new ones and seeing how poorly they work, yeah, someone might just take a fancy to yours. Oh, and I tried out my new 'racing' ones this afternoon. Full with over 5 gals of fuel, to empty, took less than 1:40, compared to 5+ mins with the 'new and improved' style. Very glad I got them, though still have the pump idea rattling around the old noggin... :)

ya, i'd say 1:30 to 1:45 is about right, and just as my arm starts to get tired, its light enough so its no big deal. I use my VP's all the time because even if my ride gets cut short, i'll dump the spare gas out of the Vp's into the truck before heading home unless i'm 100% sure i'm riding again in the next day or two, and i'm sure the truck appreciates the occasional top off with premium vs the 87 it normally gets.

Summary: IMO 1:45 or less is acceptable for 5 gallons. 5+ is NOT... heck even when i used a 2 gallon can with that new style I've given up and said.. fug this..
 
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