Cylinder Head Exchange

[DLB]

hi everyone. i know this is the PWC section and i have a boat but by question isn't specific to a boat. i have been watching a thread on the boat section where a guy had a valve failure. i have read everything i can on the faulty hollow valves and i think that i want to be proactive. which would be the best way to go about this? from watching youtube videos and reading the shop manual i think i want to attempt this myself to save some money. i know i will need the cam and crankshaft locking tools to do this. my plan is to do a cylinder head exchange. can anyone recommend a reliable place to go through. SBT, Ebay, Seadoo Engine Shop, knight motorsports? also wsm has a complete head with no exchange. i could try to sell mine on ebay if i went that way.

has anyone done a cylinder head exchange before? with who? what was your experience? also do all 4tec heads match up to all 4tec engines?

 

[clmboating]

I would recommend using ebay to save some $. Also I don't believe all of the 4tec heads match up, but I may be wrong.

 

[DLB]

wonder if 2011 RXP-X 255 head will work?? found one in classifieds.

 

[Mudnman]

I'm in the same boat ,haha,Hollow valves! With me knowing about bike motors.Compression can change with different thickness's of head gasket.I only see 1 head gasket available.So what concerns me doing a head swap is the unknown amount of milling done on a unknown hour head.A strait out of box bolt on sounds nice.But is it wise knowing I / we have a known low hour motor.I'm not trying to save a c-note,I'm trying to go to all the races.So I too would like to know what Yah'll think.

 

[DLB]

someone pm'd me and said he has had really good luck with seadoo engine shop.

 

[TplusR]

I snapped the timing chain on one of my 2006 RXT's last summer and bent some valves in the process (among other damage). In an effort to save some money, I took a chance and went with an SBT head exchange. Not sure how that will pan out as I live on Long Island and won't be riding for another month or so. My guy (whom I trust) said he has had good experiences with the SBT heads so **fingers crossed**. For $495 it sure as hell was cheaper than buying all the components of the head and then sending it off to the head shop....I hope I don't wind up eatting those words though!! With all the other parts that needed to be replaced (chain, pistons, oil pumps, gaskets, bolts, etc etc) I had to save some money somewhere....

 

[DLB]

can anyone confirm if a 2011 rxp-x head will work on my 2006 Sportster?

 

[Sea Dood]

Yes, it will work fine.

FYI, all heads from 2002-2005 are the same, and all heads from 2006 and up are the same. And regardless of the year, you can use any head on any year model, you just need to use the proper combination of rocker shaft and block to make it work. The only difference in the heads is the oil passage cross drilling.

 

[DLB]

Yes, it will work fine.

FYI, all heads from 2002-2005 are the same, and all heads from 2006 and up are the same. And regardless of the year, you can use any head on any year model, you just need to use the proper combination of rocker shaft and block to make it work. The only difference in the heads is the oil passage cross drilling.

mine is actually 1 st edition 2006 which I believe is 05 specs. it has the 2005 ecm. don't know of that makes a difference.

 

[Sea Dood]

Just FYI, "hollow valves" is not the issue with the 2002 - early 2006 valves. It is the material they are made from. The early valves were made with an alloy that resisted heat well, spun welded and sodium filled, with tough steel stems. However, the alloy for the heads was easily subject to corrosion. The stem area right at the weld joint was prone to corrosion microcracking, particularly with the SC engines due to the higher heat developed with those engines. These valves usually break right at the weld joint, typically on the rear cylinder due to the higher exhaust heat for that cylinder, and particularly with engines that are used infrequently.

In 2006, they switched to valves with Inconel heads. Inconel does not corrode like the early valves, and holds up better under extreme heat. They are still spun welded, though, to carbon steel stems.

 

[Sea Dood]

mine is actually 1 st edition 2006 which I believe is 05 specs. it has the 2005 ecm. don't know of that makes a difference.

Oh yeah, the boats are usually one year behind on electronics, but can vary on the mechanical side. You might have a 2005 engine, or a 2006 engine.

No worries, though. Here's what to do:

- Buy the 2011 head.
- When you remove your old head, look for the oil restrictor in the block. If you have a restrictor, then it is a 2005 configuration, and it must be removed. It is removed with a combination of prying and cussing. If it has no restrictor, then it is a 2006+ configuration, and the new head will bolt on with all other components.
- If 2005 config, besides removing the restrictor, you need to purchase a 2006+ rocker shaft.
- Simply install the new head with 2006+ rocker shaft, and you are good to go.

 

[DLB]

Oh yeah, the boats are usually one year behind on electronics, but can vary on the mechanical side. You might have a 2005 engine, or a 2006 engine.

No worries, though. Here's what to do:

- Buy the 2011 head.
- When you remove your old head, look for the oil restrictor in the block. If you have a restrictor, then it is a 2005 configuration, and it must be removed. It is removed with a combination of prying and cussing. If it has no restrictor, then it is a 2006+ configuration, and the new head will bolt on with all other components.
- If 2005 config, besides removing the restrictor, you need to purchase a 2006+ rocker shaft.
- Simply install the new head with 2006+ rocker shaft, and you are good to go.

i have matched up all part #s in the parts diagrams and they seem to be the same except for the rocker shaft. shouldnt i use the shaft that i currently have?

 

[ski-d00]

Make sure you buy new rocker arm bolts and head bolts and torque sequence properly.

The 2006 year was kind of mess for seadoo, lots of changes and most happened early to mid year but a few at the start. In addition to this head and valve change, they changed the pto pickup position which changed the crank pin position, also the TOPS system went from electrical to mechanical which added a required vent hole in the block, also did away with the MPEM which was only a fuse block anyway, changed lcd gauge functions requiring marrying to ECU, etc. All good changes and an improvement, I just wish they would have implemented all right at the start of 2006 but I'm sure they had inventory to use up. So, a 2006 is kind of like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get.

The boats are normally a full year behind but not sure about some of these changes. I don't see enough boats and they are typically more reliable because they don't get pushed as hard as the skis.

 

[ski-d00]

The shaft you use depends on the head you get. If you get a newer style head, you have to use a newer style shaft and MOST importantly you have to remove the oil jet(also called restrictor) in the block. If you get an old head, use your old shaft and leave the oil jet alone.

 

[DLB]

The shaft you use depends on the head you get. If you get a newer style head, you have to use a newer style shaft and MOST importantly you have to remove the oil jet(also called restrictor) in the block. If you get an old head, use your old shaft and leave the oil jet alone.

can you show me on a parts diagram where the oil restrictor would be?

 

[DLB]

Oh yeah, the boats are usually one year behind on electronics, but can vary on the mechanical side. You might have a 2005 engine, or a 2006 engine.

No worries, though. Here's what to do:

- Buy the 2011 head.
- When you remove your old head, look for the oil restrictor in the block. If you have a restrictor, then it is a 2005 configuration, and it must be removed. It is removed with a combination of prying and cussing. If it has no restrictor, then it is a 2006+ configuration, and the new head will bolt on with all other components.
- If 2005 config, besides removing the restrictor, you need to purchase a 2006+ rocker shaft.
- Simply install the new head with 2006+ rocker shaft, and you are good to go.

i don't have head removed yet. where is the oil restrictor? how hard is it to remove?

 

[ski-d00]

Here's the Oil Jet restrictor. Kind of a pain to remove while in the block. There is a spring and ball bearing in it and you have to make sure to get all pieces out and not let any fall down in.

 

[DLB]

View attachment 30161

Here's the Oil Jet restrictor. Kind of a pain to remove while in the block. There is a spring and ball bearing in it and you have to make sure to get all pieces out and not let any fall down in.

not sure i want to get into taking that oil restrictor out if it is not so easy and I will have to worry about not droping parts in the block.

so if I get an 05 or earlier rebuilt head with newer valves installed will I have the same problem with the valve corrosion since it is due to the metal the head itself is made out of?

 

[ski-d00]

it has nothing to do with the aluminum head itself, it's the valves only. you can put new valves in your head and call it good. Actually, I've had good luck with SBT valves being put in standard heads. or, you can go with new stock or higher end aftermarket valves if you want to spend more with more of a warm fuzzy feeling. Most machine shops will swap valves for about $60.

imo, if the ski has been properly maintained and it hasn't been pushed to the extreme, it is unlikely that your valves will ever fail. seawater use doesn't do it any favors though. doesn't hurt to take a quick look at them.

everybody will remember the extreme failure horror valve dropping stories and forget the norm which is that they last a long time. failure is a very low percentage overall especially in boats.

on other web forums where racing is prevalent(glad to see Sea Dood here bc he is a regular on the other forum and is very knowledgeable), they will tell you it must be done and it should be for their application. I, on the other hand, see the everyday use from normal people with normal to light summer usage and while I have seen a few failures, it is not common and the failed valves are normally a rusty mess from not winterizing and poor maintenance.

 

[DLB]

it has nothing to do with the aluminum head itself, it's the valves only. you can put new valves in your head and call it good. Actually, I've had good luck with SBT valves being put in standard heads. or, you can go with new stock or higher end aftermarket valves if you want to spend more with more of a warm fuzzy feeling. Most machine shops will swap valves for about $60.

imo, if the ski has been properly maintained and it hasn't been pushed to the extreme, it is unlikely that your valves will ever fail. seawater use doesn't do it any favors though. doesn't hurt to take a quick look at them.

everybody will remember the extreme failure horror valve dropping stories and forget the norm which is that they last a long time. failure is a very low percentage overall especially in boats.

on other web forums where racing is prevalent(glad to see Sea Dood here bc he is a regular on the other forum and is very knowledgeable), they will tell you it must be done and it should be for their application. I, on the other hand, see the everyday use from normal people with normal to light summer usage and while I have seen a few failures, it is not common and the failed valves are normally a rusty mess from not winterizing and poor maintenance.

thank you, thank you, thank you. you and seadood have been very helpful today. what would happen if the oil restrictor is left in there with newer head?

 

[ski-d00]

it will starve the head of oil and not last long.

 

[Mudnman]

I fished a spring from under my motor with a magnet.Was about size of a bic lighter flint.Makes me wonder if it was from my oil jet restrictor.My motor is 11/05 and not a clue if someone worked on it.Im going to try a better camera,pic of valve #'s. I have exhaust manifold off .Back valve is white .The others are brown.
What to do what to do hmm?

 

[ski-d00]

I think it sounds like you'd feel better if you replace the valves and that's fine. Nothing worse than having fear every time you throttle up when you should be having fun.

I'd say not likely it was your oil restrictor spring. You can normally quickly tell if somebody has had the head off before as they typically don't use oetiker clamps on the top coolant line and just use a worm gear clamp. Post some pics of the spring and the valves. I'm an SBT dealer and can give you a better price than buying direct if you choose that route. My email is ohiopowersports@woh.rr.com.

 

[Sea Dood]

I highly doubt your have the new style valves, as they came out in production around March of 2006. It is not hard to tell as you just need to take the valve cover off and get a magnifying glass and lots of light. The valve part numbers are stamped on the valves just over the keepers. If the exhaust valves start with the number 72, you have the old valves. If they start with 75, you have the later ones.

 

[DLB]

I think it sounds like you'd feel better if you replace the valves and that's fine. Nothing worse than having fear every time you throttle up when you should be having fun.

I'd say not likely it was your oil restrictor spring. You can normally quickly tell if somebody has had the head off before as they typically don't use oetiker clamps on the top coolant line and just use a worm gear clamp. Post some pics of the spring and the valves. I'm an SBT dealer and can give you a better price than buying direct if you choose that route. My email is ohiopowersports@woh.rr.com.

i would definitely feel better with the updated valves. i haven't had the boat out since i read about the issue last week. just trying to get a game plan together before i take on this project. i have done many car repairs (starters, alternators, motor mounts, radiators, radios, window regulators, body repairs, etc etc etc) but i have never taken an engine apart. It doesnt look like this is terribly hard to accomplish. here is my parts/tools list if i get this 2011 head. help me out if i'm missing anything.

-the head
-06+ rocker arm shaft (can i use my arms?)
-head gasket
-head bolts
-rocker arm shaft bolts
-cam/crank shaft locking tools
-loctite blue
-torque wrench
-torque angle guage

anything else?