Couple questions on 2001 Utopia

[CantComplain]

Hi All-

First time boat owner and of course new user here. Peter. Just bought a 2001 Utopia 185 w/Optimax 200. I have not yet put it in the water, but the price was good and I was able to speak to a local wrench who had done an assessment a few weeks ago. Said it started right up on the hose but that he didn't work on Sea-Doos. Billed the PO an hour and a half and I'm pretty sure didn't do anything else. Engine looks clean but the hull's a bit ratty with what looks like scum stains and some scuffs.

Anywho, I've done a deep dive online over the last couple weeks and learned a ton. I've drained and refilled the drive oil and it was dirty but milk-free. Doing the stator if the snow ever ends. Plugs are on the way but I'm dreading it and it looks like it has the iridiums so I may wait until I get it on the water before I mess with that as I know they've been replaced at least once in the last 22 years. So my immediate questions are:

1.) The reverse bucket and the nozzle are loose, maybe 1/2-1" of wiggle on the bucket and 1/2" on the nozzle. Normal? If not is there a video for adjusting? Can't find one.
2.) The "bulkhead panel" on the port side is missing. This is the wall for the engine compartment. Must have been removed in the past and not replaced. It's part # 204071079 (#46 on the link) and it's not exactly a maintenance part so they probably made exactly the number they needed for the boats they made, and I can't find one new or otherwise. Are there boat salvage yards? Anywhere near Tahoe? I've reached out to a member here who was parting his Utopia last year, but that's my only lead.
3.) I read somewhere that the butterfly should be closed when cold. It's maybe 20% open. OK or does that need to be adjusted?

PO said the boat ran great as of 2 seasons ago, so I'm hopeful it'll be a good 'un while I figure out if boating is for me. Thanks for any info you can provide on the questions.

(impeller pics for the helluvit, PO said he replaced the original with a "high altitude" impeller)

 

[CantComplain]

Sorry, I guess what I called the "nozzle" is actually the rudder. So the rudder and reverse gate are loose--just jiggly. Is that normal?

 

[Tim75]

Sorry, I guess what I called the "nozzle" is actually the rudder. So the rudder and reverse gate are loose--just jiggly. Is that normal?

Impeller and wear ring look pretty good from your pix.
Pic 4- is that your throttle plate? DO NOT start the engine like that. Throttle is open enough to cause the engine to over-rev and grenade. Check for binding linkage or cable.

Reverse gate and steering nozzle both have a small amount of play.The nozzle pivots on 2 screw-in pivot pins with plastic bushings. Check for tight or missing parts. Reverse gate- at neutral, bottom edge of gate must be above the nozzle stream.

Never heard of "high altitude impeller". What happened to your intake grate? Keeps rocks and logs out of the impeller.

What is that white stuff on the car?

So. FL. lol

 

[CantComplain]

Thanks @Tim75 .

Throttle plate: don't think it's binding, I remember it rolling the linkage. Is there an adjustment? Haven't looked in there for a week or so because of the snow and temps haven't even hit 50. I'll check it out, but if you happen to know about an adjustment to be made, please advise

Play in the back: Also haven't done the stator service yet but missing bushings seems like it would be a good way to describe the reverse gate feel. I'll keep an eye out when I do get up in that business.

High altitude impeller: apparently they adjust the pitch to address the loss of HP at altitude. I'm at 6300' and apparently there's a loss of about 3% per 1000', so this keeps the RPMs up. Could have some or all of that wrong....

The grate and fingers are on the garage floor. Just exploring. It'll all get back together...once the temps rise.

 

[cymertony]

Hi CC,

I also have an '01 Utopia w/200 Opti, bought it from it's original owner in 2021. It was also my first boat, if you don't count the jet ski I bought in 2019, or the submarine I served on. I live in San Diego but have a place in Nevada City and may just bring the boat up there next summer if all goes well. You are already in good hands with Tim, but I can chime in with my experience to date FWIW. Hey Tim, you're in Ft. Pierce? I am Ft Pierce Central HS class of 1990. What's the chance that I run into someone from Ft Pierce, LOL?

I would recommend finding a local mercury authorized mechanic that will at least hook up to the engine and run diagnostics. This is how I found out mine had 258hrs. I called around and found a local mechanic that would work on the engine (but not the jet drive). I was glad for that and it's a great shop so I'm lucky to have that available to me. For me it was important to have a good mechanic check things out, so I would know if I bought a paperweight or not, and if it would make sense to invest any additional money into the boat. The mechanic checked the plugs, ran compression, and checked everything over. He noted that the plugs were the original plugs and were in perfect condition. He said they are supposed to be able to go 300hrs but he had never actually seen any go that long. He replaced, them, of course. Compression on all cylinders were around 120psi and within a couple psi of each other. This jived with what I've seen on the forum.

I also replaced the battery, as the one that was in the boat did not have the correct CCA rating for this engine. The mechanic noted it could cause weird things to happen, and that was supported by the members here, so I went ahead and replaced it.

I had a weird restarting issue that didn't occur during the water test, where after running for awhile, the engine wouldn't restart. During the workup, when checking fuel pressure, the mechanic found fuel on the air side. Turns out there are three rubber diaphragm regulators, which I will probably mess up... but I think they were the air pressure regulator, fuel pressure regulator, and tracker valves. Fuel and Tracker valves have air on one side and fuel pressure on the other, so a crack sends the higher pressure fuel to the air side. I believe this caused enrichment issues and flooded-type restart issues, which went away after a few minutes. I had all three replaced and one was cracked through and the other two were starting to crack. To do this the fuel and air rails had to come off, so I asked the mechanic to also test and re-flow the injectors while he was in there. Changed the drive belt, fuel filters, and the engine has run perfect ever since.

My reverse gate and nozzle are wobbly too. I looked and everything seems fine, just has lots of play. I thought about adding bushings but don't want to create more problems trying to pop those pins out.

Your engine should rev up if you hit the left or right bump stop with the steering wheel. I think I have posted about testing it and fixing it. If you don't find it let me know. Some people don't like this behavior but I like it, as it does what it's supposed to, it helps with low speed maneuvering. Mine worked in one direction but not the other direction, and was easily fixed... just a small adjustment was needed.

Based on your comment about the intake grate and fingers, sounds like you have the OEM spring-loaded intake grate. Mine was brand new when I got the boat, but only because the old one had broken and sent a tine through the impeller, tearing it up as well as the fixed stator vanes. I immediately replaced mine with a fixed OEM aluminum grate from ebay for $100. Your impeller looks nice, I would change that grate immediately.

Hope this helps... Tim and others have helped me and many others a great deal. Use the forum, there's great info here.

Best Regards,
Tony

 

[cymertony]

Here's a pic of my throttle plate. Looks like it's just a hair open.

 

[cymertony]

Ok... just one more thing... your trailer looks very nice and I see you have surge brakes. I don't see a lockout key for the surge brakes when backing up. If you don't have one, make sure to get one, it prevents your surge brakes from activating when you are trying to back up the trailer. I didn't know about this for the first year and my trailer guy just shook his head at me when I told him... oh the shame of it all...

 

[CantComplain]

Tony, thanks so much for the reply and new information. It's all great to have. I do have the brake lockout key and the PO told me about it. In reading it seems to play a role when backing *uphill* because the tongue mechanism compresses (causing the brakes to activate) but unless I were to floor it in reverse I don't think it will factor backing *down* a ramp. But I've run a ziptie around the tongue to hold it in anyway--one less thing to worry about when launching....

I've ordered a couple of the bushings. The ones on the rudder are the same p/n as the the reverse gate. I am missing 3 out of the 4, so that explains the slop (Thanks for the heads up @Tim75 !). They're back ordered and I want to get the boat out, so I'll probably re-assemble as-is and bring the boat in again in the next few weeks (it'll be docked otherwise). I do have the stator and the rest of the mess out, I'll put it all back and add oil and fire it up in the driveway. Agree on the silly tri-lobe pins, so I'll stick with only replacing bushings on the rudder for now. If anyone knows the secret to those pins, by all means let me know.

PO said he didn't replace the battery but had it for 9 years. I don't see how that's possible but can't see a date code. May replace that proactively--can you let me know which one you got or the specs?

Sounds like I need to dive into the throttle plate being as far open as it is. I'm somewhat reluctant to mess with it before getting it wet since the PO said it ran well but I'll at least take a hard look at what could be amiss.

Regarding the non-starting issue due to valves/regulators, it sounds like the issue does resolve on the water within a reasonable amount of time. If so, I'm willing to see if I have the problem before throwing parts at it. I've read about those components, so they'd most likely be short-listed but I got the boat cheap and I want to keep it that way for now.

The only local merc wrench wants nothing to do with this. No one does. I'll tough it out, trying not to leave myself stranded on the water.

 

[Tim75]

Tony, thanks so much for the reply and new information. It's all great to have. I do have the brake lockout key and the PO told me about it. In reading it seems to play a role when backing *uphill* because the tongue mechanism compresses (causing the brakes to activate) but unless I were to floor it in reverse I don't think it will factor backing *down* a ramp. But I've run a ziptie around the tongue to hold it in anyway--one less thing to worry about when launching....

I've ordered a couple of the bushings. The ones on the rudder are the same p/n as the the reverse gate. I am missing 3 out of the 4, so that explains the slop (Thanks for the heads up @Tim75 !). They're back ordered and I want to get the boat out, so I'll probably re-assemble as-is and bring the boat in again in the next few weeks (it'll be docked otherwise). I do have the stator and the rest of the mess out, I'll put it all back and add oil and fire it up in the driveway. Agree on the silly tri-lobe pins, so I'll stick with only replacing bushings on the rudder for now. If anyone knows the secret to those pins, by all means let me know.

PO said he didn't replace the battery but had it for 9 years. I don't see how that's possible but can't see a date code. May replace that proactively--can you let me know which one you got or the specs?

Sounds like I need to dive into the throttle plate being as far open as it is. I'm somewhat reluctant to mess with it before getting it wet since the PO said it ran well but I'll at least take a hard look at what could be amiss.

Regarding the non-starting issue due to valves/regulators, it sounds like the issue does resolve on the water within a reasonable amount of time. If so, I'm willing to see if I have the problem before throwing parts at it. I've read about those components, so they'd most likely be short-listed but I got the boat cheap and I want to keep it that way for now.

The only local merc wrench wants nothing to do with this. No one does. I'll tough it out, trying not to leave myself stranded on the water.

Check Amazon for your bushings. Lots of companies make them.

Trailer- There is a solenoid valve available that wires into backup lights that solves all the problems. Requires a 5 wire connector.

 

[Tim75]

Hi CC,

I also have an '01 Utopia w/200 Opti, bought it from it's original owner in 2021. It was also my first boat, if you don't count the jet ski I bought in 2019, or the submarine I served on. I live in San Diego but have a place in Nevada City and may just bring the boat up there next summer if all goes well. You are already in good hands with Tim, but I can chime in with my experience to date FWIW. Hey Tim, you're in Ft. Pierce? I am Ft Pierce Central HS class of 1990. What's the chance that I run into someone from Ft Pierce, LOL?

I would recommend finding a local mercury authorized mechanic that will at least hook up to the engine and run diagnostics. This is how I found out mine had 258hrs. I called around and found a local mechanic that would work on the engine (but not the jet drive). I was glad for that and it's a great shop so I'm lucky to have that available to me. For me it was important to have a good mechanic check things out, so I would know if I bought a paperweight or not, and if it would make sense to invest any additional money into the boat. The mechanic checked the plugs, ran compression, and checked everything over. He noted that the plugs were the original plugs and were in perfect condition. He said they are supposed to be able to go 300hrs but he had never actually seen any go that long. He replaced, them, of course. Compression on all cylinders were around 120psi and within a couple psi of each other. This jived with what I've seen on the forum.

I also replaced the battery, as the one that was in the boat did not have the correct CCA rating for this engine. The mechanic noted it could cause weird things to happen, and that was supported by the members here, so I went ahead and replaced it.

I had a weird restarting issue that didn't occur during the water test, where after running for awhile, the engine wouldn't restart. During the workup, when checking fuel pressure, the mechanic found fuel on the air side. Turns out there are three rubber diaphragm regulators, which I will probably mess up... but I think they were the air pressure regulator, fuel pressure regulator, and tracker valves. Fuel and Tracker valves have air on one side and fuel pressure on the other, so a crack sends the higher pressure fuel to the air side. I believe this caused enrichment issues and flooded-type restart issues, which went away after a few minutes. I had all three replaced and one was cracked through and the other two were starting to crack. To do this the fuel and air rails had to come off, so I asked the mechanic to also test and re-flow the injectors while he was in there. Changed the drive belt, fuel filters, and the engine has run perfect ever since.

My reverse gate and nozzle are wobbly too. I looked and everything seems fine, just has lots of play. I thought about adding bushings but don't want to create more problems trying to pop those pins out.

Your engine should rev up if you hit the left or right bump stop with the steering wheel. I think I have posted about testing it and fixing it. If you don't find it let me know. Some people don't like this behavior but I like it, as it does what it's supposed to, it helps with low speed maneuvering. Mine worked in one direction but not the other direction, and was easily fixed... just a small adjustment was needed.

Based on your comment about the intake grate and fingers, sounds like you have the OEM spring-loaded intake grate. Mine was brand new when I got the boat, but only because the old one had broken and sent a tine through the impeller, tearing it up as well as the fixed stator vanes. I immediately replaced mine with a fixed OEM aluminum grate from ebay for $100. Your impeller looks nice, I would change that grate immediately.

Hope this helps... Tim and others have helped me and many others a great deal. Use the forum, there's great info here.

Best Regards,
Tony

Graduated Fort Pierce Central year of waaaay back.

 

[cymertony]

My old battery was an Interstate HD24-DP which is rated at 405CCA/505CA but was only measuring at 321CCA when they tested it. Boat was still running fine, but Mercury manual says 750CCA/1000CA are the minimum specs.

New battery (July 2021) is an Interstate 24M-XHD rated at 800CCA/1000CA.

Went and looked at the reverse bucket and nozzle mechanisms, I think I could definitely use a bushing on my bucket mechanism. Also, here's a video of what mine are like. Please post what you do bushing-wise, I could use the help there.

 

[cymertony]

Here's another video of the nozzle showing the amount of play.... is it normal? I can see the bushing in there, but could be worn out. On Crowley Marine the bushings (mercury part number 23-832048) are $15 each, so I'll save the $$ if not necessary

 

[CantComplain]

My old battery was an Interstate HD24-DP which is rated at 405CCA/505CA but was only measuring at 321CCA when they tested it. Boat was still running fine, but Mercury manual says 750CCA/1000CA are the minimum specs.

New battery (July 2021) is an Interstate 24M-XHD rated at 800CCA/1000CA.

Went and looked at the reverse bucket and nozzle mechanisms, I think I could definitely use a bushing on my bucket mechanism. Also, here's a video of what mine are like. Please post what you do bushing-wise, I could use the help there.

Thanks for the battery specs. Mine is a Duralast 24MD-DL. It is a marine battery but is listed at 550CCA. I'll assess when I get to the point where I'm firing this thing. Hopefully soon....

There should be another bushing opposite the one in your nozzle pivot busing video, but at the bottom. I would assume gravity would take a higher toll on that one. Your setup seems about as "loose" as mine, so maybe they're both "normal." Since I'm missing bushings though, I'm thinking they could get tighter. Still unsure how to deal with the pins on the reverse gate though, and not willing to jeopardize lake time right now so I'll let sleeping dogs lie.

I'll clarify a bit more on slop once I re-assemble.

 

[cymertony]

Pulled my reverse gate and nozzle. All looks pretty good. Not too shabby for being 22yrs old. Three out of four pivot bushings are gone, as expected. Gonna see about pulling those trilobe pins on the reverse gate and if all goes well I will order up all four bushings and re-assemble once they come in.

 

[CantComplain]

VERY interested in your progress, please post updates. Just FYI, I ordered a couple bushings on Amazon that showed in stock and it turns out they're back ordered until early June which was the same ETA as the local shop so they're probably getting them from the same place. I was just going to do the nozzle bushings initially because of the silly trilobe pins, thinking that the reverse gate isn't really all that sensitive to the slop.

Just finished re-assembling the back end as the dinner bell rang, but I'm pretty sure ours are going to be identical with 25% of the bushings in place.

Just some stream of consciousness thinking: the pins don't really do anything, right? Isn't it basically a failsafe for the bolts in the gate? So simply dremeling them out if they didn't play nice wouldn't really be the worst thing. If you wanted the insurance, there must be another way to ensure the gate doesn't fall off--maybe even an extra dose of loctite on the bolts?

 

[cymertony]

Ok all of this is probably not worth all the write up, but I enjoy it... you don't have to read it all lol...

I got my parts on CrowleyMarine.com and they had three bushings in stock for immediate delivery... but I ordered four so now they will come from Mercury then ship to me from Crowley Marine so there is a 3-5 day delay. I couldn't find the bushings on Amazon, which ones did you get?

One of the trilobe pins came out pretty easy and the other one took a little more effort, but was not very hard at all. Just a small ball peen hammer and a flat head screwdriver. In reality you only need to remove the trilobe pin and pivot bolt (1/2 inch socket) on one side to disassemble it. I didn't realize that until I had already removed them both. I agree, though, seems like the pin's function is just to prevent the pivot bolt from backing out. I already ordered a set so I will install them, but I wouldn't argue against a bit of loctite instead.

In the attached pics I have installed the one remaining bushing on one side, and the space you see between the bushing and the washer is the only remaining gap (note the holes for the trilobe pins). I would say that if there were a bushing on the other side, and if both bushings were new, that there wouldn't be much play side-to-side. However, there is still plenty of room around the pivot bolt, so I expect plenty of play up and down, but it won't be metal-to-metal anymore.

Also, in the pics... I just saw this... there are bumpers on each side to cushion the reverse gate when it's moved all the way up. One of my bumpers is completely worn flat and the other one was off center, so they were no longer doing their job and there are gouges in the bucket. I think I can just reset the bumper one one side and rotate the bumper on the other side.... You might want to check the condition of yours as well. But if I can order them I will prob just replace them, they feel like hard plastic... assuming they should be softer and may have hardened over time.

 

[CantComplain]

Wow, great update. Thanks for the post.

I got the same p/n you listed above. The Amazon listing has been updated to "Canada only," no idea why, and out of stock, for obvious reasons....

With your encouraging words, I tapped one of the pins halfway out while still on the boat. Couldn't get it back in lol, so I guess I'm well prepared for when the bushings come. Anticlimactic, thought it would be more difficult. Great news that only one has to come out.

Regarding the bumpers, mine appear untouched. One is also off center and I think that one is the stop for upper movement and the other for lower. Could absolutely be wrong about this though. Based on the extreme wear, I'd look at the reverse gate adjustment. Here's a pic of where my gate is in neutral--note that I don't know if it is adjust correctly since I haven't got it in the water yet.



I did fire it up on the hose and it hit pretty immediately, which I have to say impressed me. Here's a pic of my bumper and the partially removed pin, just for yucks.



After putting everything back together, I understand how the trim plate adjusts. From your pictures it looks like you have an aftermarket plate. Any idea how to adjust this? Mine's pretty flat at the moment. I'll research and possible start another thread if necessary.

 

[cymertony]

Nice! Good info on the bumpers.

Yes, previous owner replaced the stock trim plate with a Place Diverter adjustable extended trim plate. Today, most people just install Nauticus Smart Tabs to eliminate porpoising. I do like having control of the trim plate from the helm, but it mostly remains down, unless I have enough weight in the bow. The Mercury service manual has instructions for adjusting the stock trim plate. If you don't have the Sea Doo shop manual and the Mercury service manual, I'd recommend upgrading your forum membership so you can download them... I refer to my manuals all the time.

I used a tap to clean the threads for the pivot bolt and bumper holes, they really needed it but mostly it makes me feel better. When I reassemble I will use red loctite (271) per the manual. See attached pics...


FYI, I found a video for a river boat with the same jet unit where they serviced their bushings. The amount of play they had was similar to ours and the new bushings seemed to fix everything up so hopefully we have the same experience.

 

[CantComplain]

Seriously, I feel a little dirty after watching that video. Hope their stator hasn't grenaded due to low (and incorrect?) oil...

Regarding the trim plate adjustment, do you have anything different than the file attached? It's somewhat...vague...but admittedly I have a manual for the 210/250 mills. But I'd guess this section is the same. I can take the boat out and see, and yes I did run across the smart tabs in pretty much every hit on my search, and for $100 or so, it seems like money well spent. I just wanted to get it on the water somewhere near the factory settings that match "general applications" for now but not sure how to achieve that. If anyone could shoot a pic of that adjustment or give me an idea for angle, it would be appreciated. I'm thinking I have maybe 1/8" above the jam nut to the stator.

 

[cymertony]

Ha! I didn't pay attention to how they did their oil fill. Each one is less than a bottle and you just pump it in until it come out of the other hole. I'm gonna have to go back and see how they did it. Can't wait to see.

Same jet assembly across the board. Your diagram is the same as mine. That screw is only 35mm long, looks like you back it out which deflects the plate then make sure the jam nut is tight to hold it there. So doesn't seem to have much adjustment there. I'm sure if you search you may find more trim plate related discussions.

 

[Tim75]

Nice! Good info on the bumpers.

Yes, previous owner replaced the stock trim plate with a Place Diverter adjustable extended trim plate. Today, most people just install Nauticus Smart Tabs to eliminate porpoising. I do like having control of the trim plate from the helm, but it mostly remains down, unless I have enough weight in the bow. The Mercury service manual has instructions for adjusting the stock trim plate. If you don't have the Sea Doo shop manual and the Mercury service manual, I'd recommend upgrading your forum membership so you can download them... I refer to my manuals all the time.

I used a tap to clean the threads for the pivot bolt and bumper holes, they really needed it but mostly it makes me feel better. When I reassemble I will use red loctite (271) per the manual. See attached pics...


FYI, I found a video for a river boat with the same jet unit where they serviced their bushings. The amount of play they had was similar to ours and the new bushings seemed to fix everything up so hopefully we have the same experience.

You might want to reconsider Red Loc-tite. If you use Red, you might as well weld it. I think there is a grade between Blue (small screws) and Red.

 

[cymertony]

From a harbor freight perspective, they have their own blue and red loctite, but they also have this:

HFT Threadlocker, No. 42, 10 mL Medium Strength - Item 65192 Threadlocker, No. 42, 10 mL Medium Strength

Thoughts?

 

[CantComplain]

My boat's only been in fresh water to the best of my knowledge and it looks like most of the bolts I removed had nothing as far as a thread locker. They were solidly stuck with whatever happens to aluminum. There was something red on the the stator plugs but that may have been something else. Anyway, nothing had worked loose. I only have blue in stock in the garage and I confidently used that when re-assembling. I'm sure that HF goop would be fine.

 

[Tim75]

You might want to reconsider Red Loc-tite. If you use Red, you might as well weld it. I think there is a grade between Blue (small screws) and Red.

The only stuff I use on my screw threads is Loc-tite Blue or Neversieze.

 

[CantComplain]

Your engine should rev up if you hit the left or right bump stop with the steering wheel. I think I have posted about testing it and fixing it. If you don't find it let me know. Some people don't like this behavior but I like it, as it does what it's supposed to, it helps with low speed maneuvering. Mine worked in one direction but not the other direction, and was easily fixed... just a small adjustment was needed.

Hey @cymertony , just coming back around to this. Had the boat running on the hose again today and remembered to test the steering wheel locks. Got nothing. Looked for your post about this and couldn't find. Any chance you can dig it up? I didn't see where this was covered in the manual either.