Challenger 787 fisrt test!

[fredm21]

Hi guys,

I just took the boat for the first time ever! 1997 challenger 787 and the first thing i noticed is that the boat has no take off! Max speed is about 40km/h and it takes forever to get to that speed! It feels like im free spinning. Compression is good, what could it be?

2nd the third handle speed/ski is not changing anything when im on the water but it's moving up and down when im out of the water.

3rd after 30min of testing there was a noticable amount of water in the hull, what should I look at?

Thank you so much guys!!

 

[Coastiejoe]

Cavitation is your issue in regards to poor low end performance and lacking high end speed.

The gap from the impeller to the wear ring should be no thicker than the width of a dime. It kind if acts like spinning tires. You floor it, it revs up, the tires (impeller) spin but you go no where.


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[Coastiejoe]

The water issue can be a few things. Shaft seal, bailers, and rear rub rail where the upper and lower halves of the boat were bonded to each other are the most common issues.




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[fredm21]

 

[fredm21]

 

[fredm21]

At some places the gap is really tight and at other places it's got a small gap?? Should i change the impeller and wear ring? Also is it ok to have 3 washer on top and 1 on bottom?

 

[USAF_Pride]

At some places the gap is really tight and at other places it's got a small gap?? Should i change the impeller and wear ring? Also is it ok to have 3 washer on top and 1 on bottom?

Your impeller looks like it ate a few hard objects. I'll let other opine, but I would change/repair the impeller and change out the wear ring. The gap should be consistent as the blade goes around, so either your wear ring is worn unevenly or your impeller is bent.

As far as boats leaking, it is typically one of these 3 (in order of likelihood):
1. Carbon Seal
2. Exhaust Gasket
3. Bilge pump tube installed incorrectly causing syphoning into the boat.

 

[fredm21]

Your impeller looks like it ate a few hard objects. I'll let other opine, but I would change/repair the impeller and change out the wear ring. The gap should be consistent as the blade goes around, so either your wear ring is worn unevenly or your impeller is bent.

As far as boats leaking, it is typically one of these 3 (in order of likelihood):
1. Carbon Seal
2. Exhaust Gasket
3. Bilge pump tube installed incorrectly causing syphoning into the boat.

Thank you so much for the answer!! I will order a new impeller right now, with walear rings, bearings etc. Which gap and diameter should i take for the solas impeller on ebay?

 

[Coastiejoe]

I'm betting the impeller is bent. That would change the gap. Lay the impeller down, put a straight edge over the top center hub that extends over the blades. Measure down to the tips of the blades. I bet you find they are different.


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[USAF_Pride]

2nd the third handle speed/ski is not changing anything when im on the water but it's moving up and down when im out of the water.

Is your boat 1 or 2 engines? If two, the third lever is the throttle for the starboard engine and should be working. If not, take a picture of what you are talking about.

 

[fredm21]

1 engine

 

[USAF_Pride]

I'm not 100% familiar with that boat. Just guessing here: To the left is the Neutral/Forward/Revers, Throttle, and the right may be the VTS adjustment.

 

[fredm21]

But is it supposed to make a big difference? During acceleration or even top speed, it doesn't change anything, the nose of the boat keeps the same angle and same wave behind

 

[USAF_Pride]

But is it supposed to make a big difference? During acceleration or even top speed, it doesn't change anything, the nose of the boat keeps the same angle and same wave behind

It should (not sure how big, but it should make some difference). Is it even connected to the VTS nozzle? It shouldn't be flopping around while underway. Check the shop manual for adjustments.

 

[fredm21]

I'll take a video when i will be back home, but outside of the water it's moving up when I am on ski mode if my memory is good and down on speed mode, but no difference on the water

 

[fredm21]

http://youtu.be/jVSG4xvyNqU

 

[racerxxx]

But is it supposed to make a big difference? During acceleration or even top speed, it doesn't change anything, the nose of the boat keeps the same angle and same wave behind

You can't judge if the VTS is doing anything or not yet, having it pasted and barely moving you will see no effect, personally I don't think it will do much anyway---there is a reason they stopped putting it on them. I'll assume you're barely on plane.

That impeller has seen better days.

I'm not a fan of shimming a pump, and when you re-install the pump you need a neoprene seal to seal the front of the pump to the ride shoe. I can almost guarantee that water is passing around the pump where it seals to the ride shoe.

As for an impeller, solas recommends SD-SC-X0(16.5-23.5) for a single 787 boat
http://www.solas.com/newweb/pwcproduct/search/brand.asp?FkindNo=F23&SwType=1

Water in the hull, you need to run the boat on the trailer with the hose hooked up. Start engine, turn on water, look for leaks, turn water off, turn engine off. I'll bet water is coming from one of the welch plugs on the main head pipe. Look low on the inside of the pipe towards the mount that comes off the Mag housing. Also post a pic of the carbon seal around the driveshaft where it exits the hull from inside the bilge. I also noticed you're missing the bumper in the end of the driveshaft on the pump side, there could be a good chance you're missing the one on the PTO side too. With out them the shaft can move forward opening the gap on the carbon seal set up, alas water intrusion.


Here is what a neoprene seal looks like, it will compress and seal the front of the pump. It's hard to see but it's about a 1/4" thick foam ring.

Here are the welch plugs, they rot out from the water sitting in them

Explosion drawing for the driveshaft. If #9 is an O-ring that needs to change to the C-Clip (272000135). Also look for the bumpers #12

 

[fredm21]

 

[fredm21]

You can't judge if the VTS is doing anything or not yet, having it pasted and barely moving you will see no effect, personally I don't think it will do much anyway---there is a reason they stopped putting it on them. I'll assume you're barely on plane.

That impeller has seen better days.

I'm not a fan of shimming a pump, and when you re-install the pump you need a neoprene seal to seal the front of the pump to the ride shoe. I can almost guarantee that water is passing around the pump where it seals to the ride shoe.

As for an impeller, solas recommends SD-SC-X0(16.5-23.5) for a single 787 boat
http://www.solas.com/newweb/pwcproduct/search/brand.asp?FkindNo=F23&SwType=1

Water in the hull, you need to run the boat on the trailer with the hose hooked up. Start engine, turn on water, look for leaks, turn water off, turn engine off. I'll bet water is coming from one of the welch plugs on the main head pipe. Look low on the inside of the pipe towards the mount that comes off the Mag housing. Also post a pic of the carbon seal around the driveshaft where it exits the hull from inside the bilge. I also noticed you're missing the bumper in the end of the driveshaft on the pump side, there could be a good chance you're missing the one on the PTO side too. With out them the shaft can move forward opening the gap on the carbon seal set up, alas water intrusion.


Here is what a neoprene seal looks like, it will compress and seal the front of the pump. It's hard to see but it's about a 1/4" thick foam ring.

Here are the welch plugs, they rot out from the water sitting in them

Explosion drawing for the driveshaft. If #9 is an O-ring that needs to change to the C-Clip (272000135). Also look for the bumpers #12

Why do you think about the carbon seal? There is no crack, no sign of deterioration?

Could you explain me the purpose of shimming the pump with stainless washer? Should i take them off when i put it back together with the neoprene seal?

 

[racerxxx]

The carbon ring is the black piece that is hose clamped into the bellow that the stainless ring is riding against. It looks like it's worn crooked, but it's a small pic, any chance of a larger pic?

Also, the white tube there I think is your deck drain, follow that to the transom on the inside and check the integrity of that line INSIDE. The one on my Speedster was leaking a small amount.

Did you run it on the hose yet? You might also want to back down the ramp and just keep it strapped to the trailer in the back and see if you can see/hear the water trickle in. That's a lot of water in there.

Also look at the cable for the weedless intake grate, the compression nut (black plastic) will crack allowing the cable to leak. There is a guy on Ebay that makes them from either aluminum or stainless for dirt cheap. Of just silicone the hole from the outside where the cable exits. I think teh weedless is neat, but I never used it but one time when we sucked a ski rope around the driveshaft.

They may have shimmed the pump to help align the driveshaft because they didn't have the alignment too to align the engine to the pump. I would take them out (remember how many were where) and see how it is when it goes back together and look at the stainless ring to carbon seal--if it moves.

Also as noted before check the exhaust gasket where it exits the hull, they are known to dry rot and leak.

 

[fredm21]

The carbon ring is the black piece that is hose clamped into the bellow that the stainless ring is riding against. It looks like it's worn crooked, but it's a small pic, any chance of a larger pic?

Also, the white tube there I think is your deck drain, follow that to the transom on the inside and check the integrity of that line INSIDE. The one on my Speedster was leaking a small amount.

Did you run it on the hose yet? You might also want to back down the ramp and just keep it strapped to the trailer in the back and see if you can see/hear the water trickle in. That's a lot of water in there.

Also look at the cable for the weedless intake grate, the compression nut (black plastic) will crack allowing the cable to leak. There is a guy on Ebay that makes them from either aluminum or stainless for dirt cheap. Of just silicone the hole from the outside where the cable exits. I think teh weedless is neat, but I never used it but one time when we sucked a ski rope around the driveshaft.

They may have shimmed the pump to help align the driveshaft because they didn't have the alignment too to align the engine to the pump. I would take them out (remember how many were where) and see how it is when it goes back together and look at the stainless ring to carbon seal--if it moves.

Also as noted before check the exhaust gasket where it exits the hull, they are known to dry rot and leak.

Here some more pictures! I did run the boat with the hose once, i will do it this morning and check for holes, but the white hose goes to the bildge pump?

For the shims, if i take them off, will i have to re-align the motor?

Thank you so much buddy! I really appreciate it!

 

[fredm21]

It looks like I will have to get the rubber seal around the muffler, where is the cheapeat place to get one?

 

[USAF_Pride]

It looks like I will have to get the rubber seal around the muffler, where is the cheapeat place to get one?

Unfortunately, they are a discontinued part and I haven't seen any on eBay recently. There is a thread on here about using a roof pipe boot as a replacement. I currently have black tape tightly wrapped around mine that has the leak to a minimum.


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[fredm21]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/130809345910

Would this fit ?

 

[USAF_Pride]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/130809345910

Would this fit ?

Nope. See this thread

http://www.seadooforum.com/showthread.php?t=65992


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