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Challenger 2000 ('00) Reman Powerhead 210 hp merc, now more problems

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HockeyPlayer26

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Seems like I have been reading this forum for 2 weeks solid, still cannot fix my boat so I am posting. Have a year 2000 Challenger 2000 with the 210 ph merc. I decided to go with the remanufactured powerhead since the old one was blown and not even useable as a core. Expensive fix but thought.... do it right and do it once. So drove a day to get this powerhead installed, finally got it in the lake, went though the break-in and everything seemed great. 2 Weeks ago after traveling through a no wake area for about 10-15 minutes, we hit the open area and increased up to about 4000 rpm and the warning beep went off. Shut down and cooled off, then went back to dock. Took it out later and the idle was now rough and well below 1000 rpm. Took it back out the next weekend, other than the low rough idle, the boat ran ok, but as soon as I turned the boat at 3000 or 4000 rpm, the beep went off again. Started reading.

Last weekend flushed the water lines to be sure there was no blockage and put in fresh spark plugs because I was not sure if the reman powerhead has new ones or old. So Swapped out. Did notice a little gunk on 2 of the 6. Took the boat out, no change. Rough idle but the boat ran well for maybe 15 minutes. Then I bumped it up to 5000 rpm and after 1 minute, the beep. Later in the day tried to start trouble shooting, now the boat will not start at all. This weekend I tried again to see if I could get it running, it started and ran for about 20 seconds, really really rough, maybe 500 rpm and then stalled. Cannot get even that to repeat.

So I cannot find anyone locally to work on this boat. So I need to troubleshoot myself or hit the road and drive for a day to bring it back to the place who remanufactured the powerhead and hope they can find the issue. thanks for any insight.
 
So sorry, that really sucks.
I think a compression test on all 6 cylinders is required.
Is it carbs or fuel injected?
 
So only one crank and then dies. Only 75 psi on top 2 on each side (4) and about 85 psi on the bottom 2.
2 plugs might have a few dots of water, not sure but it looked like it. The bottom 2 had a little dark residue, the top 4 were clean. I am no mechanic, but it seems like it is not getting fuel any longer.
 
So 4 cylinders with 75 psi and the bottom 2 with 85 psi, right?
Did you have the throttle wide open when you did the test?
 
To do the compression test i think you need all 6 spark plugs out. Throttle wide open. At least a couple seconds of cranking for each compression test.
 
Shortrun said:
To do the compression test i think you need all 6 spark plugs out. Throttle wide open. At least a couple seconds of cranking for each compression test.
Click to expand...

Compression test is done on land (trailer), not in the water. All plugs out, WOT.
Not sure how you can do a compression test and try to start at the same time.
 
Tim75 said:
Compression test is done on land (trailer), not in the water. All plugs out, WOT.
Not sure how you can do a compression test and try to start at the same time.
Click to expand...
OK now you guys have me really confused. So now I have to tow the boat to the launch and pull it out of the water to do a compression check? Presumably connected to a hose. Will be a few days, I have to get the trailer from storage to pull the boat out. Not sure I understand why I need the boat on the trailer.

Also, I do not understand the comment about not being able to do the compression check and trying to start at same time. thanks
 
Compression tests are done while cranking the engine over via the starter with all the spark plugs removed and the throttle wide open (max). With all spark plugs removed, the engine can not start (obviously) and you don't want it to. The ~300rpms the starter can spin the engine is sufficient for the test. Removing all the plugs allows the starter a much easier time to spin the engine (not fighting compression stokes). Similarly, having the boat out of the water (on the trailer or boat lift)... will help the starter spin the engine over faster by not having to push water in the jet pump while cranking (jet pump impeller always spinning anytime engine is spinning). Could you do a compression test with boat floating? Yes, but your compression #'s will likely be lower than they would be if tested on the trailer.

Cheers!
 
ripcuda said:
Compression tests are done while cranking the engine over via the starter with all the spark plugs removed and the throttle wide open (max). With all spark plugs removed, the engine can not start (obviously) and you don't want it to. The ~300rpms the starter can spin the engine is sufficient for the test. Removing all the plugs allows the starter a much easier time to spin the engine (not fighting compression stokes). Similarly, having the boat out of the water (on the trailer or boat lift)... will help the starter spin the engine over faster by not having to push water in the jet pump while cranking (jet pump impeller always spinning anytime engine is spinning). Could you do a compression test with boat floating? Yes, but your compression #'s will likely be lower than they would be if tested on the trailer.

Cheers!
Click to expand...
Thanks for explaining. As I said...I am a novice at best. And an idiot as well since I can pop the boat on a nearby lift a lot easier than tow to the launch. Will do as soon as I am back at the lake Friday. Thanks again.
 
That is great news. With a rebuilt engine, failures in the block are a worry.
You had all the spark plugs out, how did they look?
Now I am wondering about a gumed up carburetor. Or one (or some) of the spark plugs not sparking.
 
So the plugs are essentially new, look fine and have good spark. The motor is remanufactured and seems to be ok (manually turned flywheel, sounded fine and smooth). More reading and looking at shop manual led to the fuel enrichment valve solenoid. Can tell gas is coming to that unit, does not seem to be working, no click, no gas comes out. I ordered one. Not sure if that would cause all my symptoms leading up to now not starting. Have no looked into carbs yet. But we have compression and spark for sure.
 
edit to make cleared
How did you test that the plugs all have good spark?
Are they wet? getting gas any gas?
 
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My next step is bloody dangerous. It is what I would do, but not recommending it to anyone.
You need to find out if there is gas will it start?
Some people use quick start. I hate the stuff.
I get a curved tip syringe (google that for a picture) and inject about 1 cubic centimeter into one or 2 cylinders. Remove the spark plug, inject gasoline (mixed) in, reinstall plugs. Crank the engine. Be quick with this.
You should get a 1 to 2 seconds of running from this.
 
was thinking the same. need to figure out how I would get the gas in, as you have said, not easy. Also may wait until the new enrichment solenoid arrives....hopefully by end of week. Really want to get back on the water for the 4th. thanks
 
Not sure the enrichment is the problem? I am not that familiar with you engine.
There are 3 things i would be considering. Is there a fuel filter in the tank? It might be plugged. Next comes the gas lines, tank to engine. Seadoo used a grey colored hose on some units and they were a big problem.
There is the fuel Primer. It runs on +12 volts. There is a filter on the input to the primer.
Then there is the main fuel pump which runs on pulseing air from the engine.

I would look into these after I knew the engine will run if it has gas. Back to the bloody dangerous stuff.
 
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so I just finished changing all the fuel lines that were not changed on the new powerhead to the type A1 stuff. there is gas coming to the enrichment value and when I push down on the "reset" button as descried in the manual, gas comes out the vent port. Not sure that is supposed to happen.

I added an inline fuel filter from tank to powerhead recently and removed some coupler thing. Not sure what it was there for or if it is some check valve or something. I really do not know. That was after the boat stopped running.
 
well after putting a small amount of gas into 2 spark plug holes and reinstalling plugs, the engine tried to start for a few seconds, but not much. But was better than when no gas was added. So still seems like a fuel issue.
 
I would really look at the carburetors. You have a remanufactured powerhead, but have the carburetors been gone through/rebuilt? Are you certain that you have a lack of fuel condition and not a too much fuel condition? I might take the carburetors off and connect a vacuum pump to the bowls and make sure your needle/seat assemblies are sealing properly. The carburetors need to be removed so you can turn them upside down to test the needle/seat assemblies. You can get a vacuum pump for $25-50 (Harbor Freight) if you don't have one. I have the 210HP carbureted engine in my boat and it started becoming harder and harder to start and eventually got to having a rough low idle, stalling and difficulty restarting. I knew it was carburetor related but didn't want to rebuild them. Eventually I pulled them off and rebuilt them and the boat runs like new again. If you do rebuild the carburetors, I would recommend the OEM kits ($70-90 each) and making good notes where each jet was located during disassembly. There are five jets in each carburetor. I made notes where each jet came from for reassembly and found that the Mercury service information seemed backward to me in the Starboard/Port jet location callouts. I used an ultrasonic cleaner with a medium mix of Simple Green Pro HD Heavy Duty Cleaner (Purple) which is safe for most metals/aluminum. It worked great.

BTW, I had a leaking needle/seat assembly. I found that the top carburetor needle/seat assembly was completely leaking, would not hold any vacuum. The middle carburetor sealed very well and did not leak at all. The bottom carburetor had a very slight small/slow leak. After the rebuild they all sealed completely, as expected and the boat runs and starts great.
 
Murph_13 said:
I would really look at the carburetors. You have a remanufactured powerhead, but have the carburetors been gone through/rebuilt? Are you certain that you have a lack of fuel condition and not a too much fuel condition? I might take the carburetors off and connect a vacuum pump to the bowls and make sure your needle/seat assemblies are sealing properly. The carburetors need to be removed so you can turn them upside down to test the needle/seat assemblies. You can get a vacuum pump for $25-50 (Harbor Freight) if you don't have one. I have the 210HP carbureted engine in my boat and it started becoming harder and harder to start and eventually got to having a rough low idle, stalling and difficulty restarting. I knew it was carburetor related but didn't want to rebuild them. Eventually I pulled them off and rebuilt them and the boat runs like new again. If you do rebuild the carburetors, I would recommend the OEM kits ($70-90 each) and making good notes where each jet was located during disassembly. There are five jets in each carburetor. I made notes where each jet came from for reassembly and found that the Mercury service information seemed backward to me in the Starboard/Port jet location callouts. I used an ultrasonic cleaner with a medium mix of Simple Green Pro HD Heavy Duty Cleaner (Purple) which is safe for most metals/aluminum. It worked great.

BTW, I had a leaking needle/seat assembly. I found that the top carburetor needle/seat assembly was completely leaking, would not hold any vacuum. The middle carburetor sealed very well and did not leak at all. The bottom carburetor had a very slight small/slow leak. After the rebuild they all sealed completely, as expected and the boat runs and starts great.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the detailed reply. We will need to investigate all of this when we get back to the boat this weekend. Maybe sooner. Really appreciate the comments, particularly since we have the same engine. Also, I have no idea about the servicing on the carbs. The expectation is no. Got the remanufactured powerhead installed. Dropped off morning and pick up evening. Based on how it all unsoldered with time and travel issues, and my lack of knowledge, I did not ask enough questions. And I have been trying to get a open Q&A dialogue with the place and no one is answering now. They just want me to bring the boat back for service. Is too far to drive that again. And there seems to no be anything wrong with the powerhead.
 
If you're heading out this weekend to look at the boat and are going to remove the carburetors to check the needle/seat assemblies, order carburetor to intake gaskets (Mercury P/N 828292; need three). The gaskets between the carburetor and attenuator can most likely be reused (only sealing air and will probably be in good condition to reseal), but if you want to order those when you order the other gaskets, the Mercury P/N is 892211.

Rebuilding the carburetors is easy, if you can remove and replace screws you can rebuild the carburetors. The only adjustment you need to make is to the idle mixture screws (two per carburetor). I don't recall the baseline number of turns from seated each screw requires from the service information, but mine were 1-1/3 turns out from seated and that's were I put them after the rebuild and it starts and runs great (I've put 70+ hours on the boat since the rebuild). You can turn your idle screws in and count the number of turns and note it.
 
I just bought the rebuild kits before seeing this. With everything I have into this project, I want to get a clean slate on as much as possible. So I just ordered the kit so I had by Thursday so I can have it for the weekend. Thanks again for passing along your experience
 
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