Cant get impeller out of jet pump

[Themist456]

Hello everyone,

Was causing in my 96 xp last weekend and jet pump siezed up on me. I have an extra jet pump but would like to get the impeller out of this one because it's pretty much a brand new Solas. However, I have tried everything I can to get it off and can not.

I had a 4 inch vise that I actually broke because of how tight it is om the threads.
Got a 5 inch to replace it now.

I have let it sit with wd-40 over night and used a cheater pipe breaker bar. Still nothing.

I cannot get the vise to clamp hard enough on the shaft and its keeps slipping once I put some torque into it.

Any other suggestions? At this point I might just take it to the dealer as this is my personal seadoo and I am missing it.

 

[RG123]

I've seen our friends on Today We Wrench (youtube, seen posts here too) break one free using a big open ended wrench on the cone side, as well as a breaker with a cheater bar on the other. Probably will need another person the hold the pump and wrench down on the floor too.

 

[Themist456]

I've seen our friends on Today We Wrench (youtube, seen posts here too) break one free using a big open ended wrench on the cone side, as well as a breaker with a cheater bar on the other. Probably will need another person the hold the pump and wrench down on the floor too.

I have actually already tried that believe it or not. Even with putting all their weight I lifted them off the ground with the wrench....

 

[etemplet]

You need a bigger better vise for starters. Sometimes an impact wrench helps break it loose. WD 40 is not the product that will loosen rust and help break the threads free. I find "PB Blaster" works pretty good, available at Home Depot and other places. Many other penetrating oils will work. I'd consider heat but you are very limited in that location. You may have to decide whether you want the impeller intact or the pump. Good Luck.

 

[AKnarrowback]

And some advice for putting
the impeller on. Forget loctite and torque.

Us a small bit of grease or antiseaze on the threads and just take it down snug. It only spins itself on tighter as you ride, it will never unthread and you will be able to take it apart with ease next time.

Thread locker and high torque to hold your impeller on is like laying down a good layer of glue before you pour a concrete slab. It isn't going anywhere...... Just spin it on until it stops, put the wrench on it for a little snugness and call it good.

 

[etemplet]

And some advice for putting
the impeller on. Forget loctite and torque.

Us a small bit of grease or antiseaze on the threads and just take it down snug. It only spins itself on tighter as you ride, it will never unthread and you will be able to take it apart with ease next time.

Thread locker and high torque to hold your impeller on is like laying down a good layer of glue before you pour a concrete slab. It isn't going anywhere...... Just spin it on until it stops, put the wrench on it for a little snugness and call it good.

I put a lot of never-seez and grease on my impellers. I torque them but they all unscrew nicely. Spin right off.

 

[Themist456]

You need a bigger better vise for starters. Sometimes an impact wrench helps break it loose. WD 40 is not the product that will loosen rust and help break the threads free. I find "PB Blaster" works pretty good, available at Home Depot and other places. Many other penetrating oils will work. I'd consider heat but you are very limited in that location. You may have to decide whether you want the impeller intact or the pump. Good Luck.

Already tried my impact on it as well. I will try some pb blaster and see if that makes a difference.

 

[Themist456]

And some advice for putting
the impeller on. Forget loctite and torque.

Us a small bit of grease or antiseaze on the threads and just take it down snug. It only spins itself on tighter as you ride, it will never unthread and you will be able to take it apart with ease next time.

Thread locker and high torque to hold your impeller on is like laying down a good layer of glue before you pour a concrete slab. It isn't going anywhere...... Just spin it on until it stops, put the wrench on it for a little snugness and call it good.

I used greeese when I put it on suggested like others but I think from seizing up while trying to limp it back to the dock must have over torqued the crap out of it.

 

[etemplet]

I remove a lot of impellers. Only had trouble with one on a GTS. My cousin and I used a breaker bar and slowly but surely it came off. It was tight all the way..... really tight.

I like never-seez better than grease on the underwater stuff because it stays on better. Also you never know what that impeller might have hit so they can surely twist tighter and cause problems. I think if you put it in a good strong vise you'll have a better chance of getting it to come loose. If the vise flexes at all you loose needed impact shock to break it loose. I was an apprentice machinist 45 years ago and learned quickly.... BIG strong tools are a must. Everything else is a toy. I haven't finished my hydraulic press but I built it on the same scale as our 100 ton press at work. I ain't playin. LOL Good Luck.

 

[Riverguy42]

I am just finishing up my first impeller and wear ring replacement. I had the same problem, could NOT get the impeller shaft out of the impeller. Things I learned along the way...

• Sea-Doo factory shop manual specifies Loctite "Red 271" on the impeller shaft threads -- 271 is the toughest stuff they make -- described as PERMANENT.
• Loctite instructions say that to disassemble fasteners locked with 271, heat up the parts to 450 degrees. I would NOT recommend this because I don't know what this would do to the bearings/shaft. but I think 250-350 degrees would probably be safe, and would probably help.
• Sea-Doo factory shop manual says NEVER use any kind of impact tool for this job.

I took the entire pump to a local Sea-doo dealer (who now refuses to work on >>any<< of the 2-strokes) and the mechanic there had it apart in 3 minutes -- he said it was a real bear because previous owner had not installed the rubber seal into the impeller, and the threads at the end of the shaft had started to corrode. Fortunately the drive shaft splines appear to be undamaged.

I did >>not<< see any evidence that any Loctite (red, blue or otherwise) had been used on the impeller shaft threads. This would explain the corrosion. If any grease had been used, it was washed out long ago. So, in my case, the problem was corrosion.

Question: I am not sure that Loctite Red 271 is really necessary...maybe overkill? I think the main purpose of the Loctite is to seal the threads against corrosion and not wash out like grease would do. Maybe a catastrophic failure if the impeller shaft starts to loosen, but there was no evidence of loosening, and no loctite used during the previous impeller replacement. I am thinking about using Loctite Blue 242 instead. Any thoughts on this?

 

[Riverguy42]

Whoops, forgot the attachment...

 

[Riverguy42]

And some advice for putting
the impeller on. Forget loctite and torque.

Us a small bit of grease or antiseaze on the threads and just take it down snug. It only spins itself on tighter as you ride, it will never unthread and you will be able to take it apart with ease next time.

Thread locker and high torque to hold your impeller on is like laying down a good layer of glue before you pour a concrete slab. It isn't going anywhere...... Just spin it on until it stops, put the wrench on it for a little snugness and call it good.

Well, having designed some systems like these and worked with other engineers responsible for developing the service proceedures, I find it hard to just ignore the Factory Service Manuals...which call for Loctite. There is enough vibration on that shaft to cause problems and grease does nothing for that. Just a word of caution. I'm not sure what the purpose of the loctite is, but I am sure I'm not qualified to say it's not needed.

 

[Riverguy42]

Hello everyone,

Was causing in my 96 xp last weekend and jet pump siezed up on me. I have an extra jet pump but would like to get the impeller out of this one because it's pretty much a brand new Solas. However, I have tried everything I can to get it off and can not.

I had a 4 inch vise that I actually broke because of how tight it is om the threads.
Got a 5 inch to replace it now.

I have let it sit with wd-40 over night and used a cheater pipe breaker bar. Still nothing.

I cannot get the vise to clamp hard enough on the shaft and its keeps slipping once I put some torque into it.

Any other suggestions? At this point I might just take it to the dealer as this is my personal seadoo and I am missing it.

If the person who installed that impeller was following the Factory Service Manual, you are going to need a propane torch...

 

[Riverguy42]

<<snip>>

• Loctite instructions say that to disassemble fasteners locked with 271, heat up the parts to 450 degrees. I would NOT recommend this because I don't know what this would do to the bearings/shaft. but I think 250-350 degrees would probably be safe, and would probably help. <<snip>>

Sure enough, when I RTFM, I find that Sea Doo recommends 300 degrees F!

 

[AKnarrowback]

Well, having designed some systems like these and worked with other engineers responsible for developing the service proceedures, I find it hard to just ignore the Factory Service Manuals...which call for Loctite. There is enough vibration on that shaft to cause problems and grease does nothing for that. Just a word of caution. I'm not sure what the purpose of the loctite is, but I am sure I'm not0 qualified to say it's not needed.

With respect.

I value any new insight and we all want to help answer questions for others.

I have worked as a sea-doo mechanic and still do my own work all summer since it is a short season up here and I put a lot of miles on.

The most expensive repair bills for jet pump work are the ones where getting the impeller off the shaft. The "loctite and hi torque" ones are the repairs that end up damaging the threads on the shaft as well as the impeller, I have seen a lot of them.

I won't say my way is the best, but it has never resulted in any running failures or damage during disassembly.

I will not disagree with you advice either since it is rooted in practical experience.

On my own machines I never add anything to the threads and only snug the impeller down tight, no excessive force and have never had and impeller/shaft problems.

I just want to make sure everyone has a smooth run of things and gets back on the water to enjoy life.

 

[Riverguy42]

With respect.

I value any new insight and we all want to help answer questions for others.

I have worked as a sea-doo mechanic and still do my own work all summer since it is a short season up here and I put a lot of miles on.

The most expensive repair bills for jet pump work are the ones where getting the impeller off the shaft. The "loctite and hi torque" ones are the repairs that end up damaging the threads on the shaft as well as the impeller, I have seen a lot of them.

I won't say my way is the best, but it has never resulted in any running failures or damage during disassembly.

I will not disagree with you advice either since it is rooted in practical experience.

On my own machines I never add anything to the threads and only snug the impeller down tight, no excessive force and have never had and impeller/shaft problems.

I just want to make sure everyone has a smooth run of things and gets back on the water to enjoy life.

Thanks AK, I didn't know you'd been a mechanic for Sea Doo. In my case, I ultimately learned that the problem getting the impeller off was corrosion, which I think is due to not sealing the threads, and the boat spending weeks (or months) at a time sitting in the water. The corrosion started at the outer tip of the threaded end of the impeller shaft and crept backward from there. After the shaft came out of the impeller, I found I couldn't thread it into my shiny new Solas X-prop impeller. A stiff wire wheel at the business end of my handy dremel tool finally got the light surface rust out of the threads and it spun in like butter.
-
My conclusion is that the reason to use 'something better than grease' is to keep the shaft threads from corroding. I think this is especially important for lightly used boats that don't have their pumps disassembled very often, or for boats that spend time sitting in the water. Also, the impeller shaft is hardened carbon steel and the impeller is stainless steel, so we have the potential for galvanic corrosion due to dissimilar metals that are staying 'wet'.
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For my job, I went with the Sea Doo recommended 'loctite red' -- again, primarily to seal the threads from water ingress. I also feel better knowing that it's ok to heat the impeller hub to ~300 degrees to melt the loctite when I remove it next time.
-
Now for the punchline. Getting it ready to splash, I greased the PTO coupler (forgetting I had greased it late last season). Looking for the boot to swell...it didn't -- because it was already full. The boot popped and squirted grease out a little pinhole due to my dumb move.
-
So now I get to tear it all apart again once all the grease leaks out, which I figure will happen over the next 5-10 running hours. This will give me an opportunity to see how difficult it is to remove the impeller, and maybe go ahead and replace the shaft while I'm at it...

 

[etemplet]

Loctite is no way going on any impeller I install. No way. I wouldn't do that to anyone even if I didn't like them. Your mileage of course may vary.

 

[AKnarrowback]

Yes, I have to keep the environment in mind when my advice is given out.

I live in Interior Alaska where corrosion, galvanic action, dissimilar metals simply never are an issue. It's all fresh water that never gets above 50F where I ride.

I have seen pictures of some of the crusty insides of motors you guys deal with and have to say I am not jealous. The salt water running must cause havoc when it comes to working on things.

 

[Riverguy42]

Loctite is no way going on any impeller I install. No way. I wouldn't do that to anyone even if I didn't like them. Your mileage of course may vary.

So, the engineers what designed these machines are idiots? What does that say about them yokels what buys these machines? ;-)

 

[Riverguy42]

Yes, I have to keep the environment in mind when my advice is given out.

I live in Interior Alaska where corrosion, galvanic action, dissimilar metals simply never are an issue. It's all fresh water that never gets above 50F where I ride.

I have seen pictures of some of the crusty insides of motors you guys deal with and have to say I am not jealous. The salt water running must cause havoc when it comes to working on things.

Actually...a common misconception about galvanic corrosion is that it only happens in salt water. Even fresh water has dissolved minerals that cause it to conduct electricity and accelerate galvanic corrosion, and most river water is especially conducive to galvanic corrosion. Meanwhile, Stainless Steel and Carbon Steel are not friendly (immersed in electrolyte or not). When the two meet, it will be the carbon steel that corrodes, and the presence of water will increase the speed of the reaction.

Grease will help until it washes out...which is where the Loctite has an advantage.