Buying a 99 Sportster 1800

[Isaac-1]

I am starting a new thread to be on topic from my initial what to buy thread. After much shopping and thought the last week or so I have decided to buy a 1999 Sportster 1800 that is located about 150 miles away, I am going to go pick it up Thursday morning. The good thing about it is it appears to be in overall good, but not great condition, the bad sid is one of the engines has issues (rotary valve oil getting into the cylinders) I have also found a low hour running 717 for sale a couple of hours drive away in a different direction, and the guy selling it is willing to do the engine swap for a reasonable price. (he deals in used PWC parts). Now for the downside, the current owner has only had the boat for a couple of years, he told me bought it from an older gentleman, and did not get any maintenance history, and has only done a little bit of work to the boat (reverse cable replacement, maybe CD player, etc.)

I expect my total initial cost to be in the $3,500 ballpark, counting boat, motor, install, mileage expense to haul it around for 500 miles, resgistration, title transfer, etc. Which I know is not great, but based on the going advertised prices for boats within a couple of hundred miles of here seems like a deal (I know I could probably do better in the off season, but in turn after I get this boat up and going, I plan on selling my Jet Ski, so hopefully that will help out) as most have asking prices in the $4000+ range, many of these have their own issues.

Now down to the point of this message, when dealing with a boat with an unknown maintenance history, what would you suggest checking, replacing, etc.?

My plan as of now is to get the boat, and get the motor swapped out, then deal next hopefully deal with the cheap stuff I can do myself.

The list so far:

rebuild the carburetors, they seem to be in running condition, but no idea when they were last rebuilt, I have rebuilt the Keihin carburetor on jet ski a couple of times, I assume these Mikuni's are not much different.

I was also thinking about pulling the pumps replacing the wear rings, and the pump oil, and hopefully not find any issues that require a rebuild.

Depending on the condition it may also get a new battery, or perhaps I will add a second battery.

What else should I plan of checking, replacing, etc?

My hopes are to get it going good enough to last the rest of this season quickly, hence paying someone to swap the engine, then get the other suff this winter when I have time, and once the bank account has recovered a bit. Right now I am working in about a $3,800 budget, but will have a bit more to spend on it when I sell my jet ski or after Aug 1st.

I am also in the process of getting the jetski ready to sell, I just put the rebuilt carburetor back in it yesterday afternoon, and a new battery was just delivered for it today, so all it needs now is a run to the water to tune, and a quick bath.

thanks for any advice on the subject.

Ike

p.s. chance are this is a fresh water only boat as the current and previous owner lived about 250 miles inland

 

[Dr Honda]

ok... long post.


As far as want can be bad.... well... everything. When you buy a boat in a "Non-running" condition... you have to assume that you will rebuild/replace all the mechanical parts. I know that sounds a little harsh... but it's the truth.

Also... if you can't do the work yourself... then a boat like that may become a money pit.

 

[Isaac-1]

Yeah that post did get away from me a bit, to be fair this one is in half running condition, on a side note the pickup got pushed back 24 hours. I plan to do most of the work myself, just getting someone else to do the engine swap as their quote to do it was low enough to be worth it to me not to have to hassle with pulling the engine myself. Mostly I was just asking for ideas on what things I should check, any things that I may not be thinking of particular to these boats.

 

[howie099]

ok, here is what I would do but you would loose this season to use the boat unless you want and SBT engine. I would not even buy the other ski to pull the engine. They are both old and unless it was recently rebuilt I think you are wasting money. Use the $800-$900 and a rebuilt engine to put in the boat. I know it is hard to have to have it sitting there not doing anything but most shops wont get your engine back for 30-60 days if you are lucky. I would call and ask some and see what the wait time is. You do need to do most of the work yourself you save on labor. I bought my 1998 1800 Sportster for $4400. It ran and I bought it in October. So this is what I did with it before I used it the next season...

Replaced the jet pumps w/used brass ones since the plastic fins where beat up, wear rings, carbone rings, new impellers, new bilge pump, 1 used weed cable, fix some sloppy damage on the bottom of the boat, replaced all oil lines and switched brands of oil, one pump to boat mounting plate (can't remember the name). That was just the mechanical stuff total the winter lets say $1000. Don't tell the wife..

Next season rebuilt the fuel system (2 carbs and retro some mikuni fuel pumps) with some aftermarket boat fuel filters, marker light, hydro-turf, 1 new seat cover for just 1 seat, add a stero, 10" sub, 2 new speakers, amp, dual battery setup with switch. Lets say another $1000. Don't tell the wife either on this one.

That is what is costs to restore a older boat to sea worthy shape. Plus I know I will need engines soon since I am reaching the 200 hour range but they are just like 17 years old. So with your boat whatever you paid add 2000 on plus your engine.

Plus I did everything myself didn't pay anyone so I am guessing I saved $1000-$2000 in labor right there.

 

[ialonso]

Does it really need a rebuild right NOW?

I would check how impactfull is this issue with the oil seeping. Does the engine run? I would check fuel lines and quality of the fuel filter. Did you check compression and condition of pumps?

Seeing how you are in the middle of the season, I would tinker enough to get it running now and get a good day or two in the water so you can get excited about the boat and start throwing money at it. If you can get it to run reliably, maybe leave the rebuild for the winter. Normally the engine either runs or not. (low cylinder pressure still let's you go out, just less power) little oil seeping may result in some smoke on start up (or in extreme cases a flooded cylinder with oil, which means one or several seals are shot and the engine won't run easily, counts are not running to me)

I would recommend a Carb rebuild/renew ($199 each if you look around, not a bad deal. You should have only 1 carb per engine-I have the same boat) This is the #1 pain point for me on this boat, and the part that causes the most pain since alcohol got put on the fuel. Specially since yours has been sitting for some time.

Mind the fuel, fix the carbs, make sure your fuel is clean and your filter is up to snuff. many years ago I plugged the OEM fuel filters and added Spin on fuel filters (You can find generic versions from $20-$40, and that was one of the best updates I made to the boat. (Something like:https://www.google.com/search?q=Spi...lter+inboard+bracket&spd=15896918026984348401 There are many options.)

Good Luck!

 

[Isaac-1]

Thanks for the thoughts there are a couple there that I had not considered

 

[Isaac-1]

Well for better or worse I am home with the boat, spent almost all day on the road 180+ miles each way. Overall once I stopped on the way home and spent about $5 in quarters at a car wash it looks pretty good from 20 feet away (lots of mildew stains, but most washed right off), however once you get closer a lot of little details start standing out, some of which will need to be addressed right away, some are just cosmetic.

I have already started spending some money on it, and may spend more tonight. When the seller was hooking it up the handle broke off the tongue jack, so that was detail number one, I stopped at Wal-Mart and picked one up on the way home, and managed to get it mostly installed before I ran out of light. Next up will be replacing the trailer tires / wheels, one side is low on tread, the other is starting to have dry rot, but at least it made it home ok, while we are near the tires, both plastic step fenders need replacing, the look okay, but are cracked and not stable to stand on. Also strangely enough the axle has a bearing buddy on one side, but not the other. Going up to the boat hull it is mostly good, but it looks like someone smashed the bow into something at some point in the past, the rub strake is damaged for about 8 inches and glued back together, and there are spider web cracks in the gel coat about the size of the palm of my hand around the tip of the bow. There seems to also be an old fiber glass repair about the size of my hand on the left side, good color match job, but oxidation level if different, hopefully it will buff out. Other than a few small scratches and one gouge about the size of my thumb the hull looks good. Interior seats have been recovered, but a couple of them need some repair, foam seems good though. There is a small crack in the windscreen cover over the steering pod, I am hopeful a bit of super glue will take care of that. As to the mechanical stuff we will just have to see, at least the engines are there, although it looks like someone did some creative wiring on the port side ignition box, I have already found tested working replacements on ebay for about $50. The battery is also a bit weak, I have it on a charger tonight, we will just have to wait and see on that one too.

 

[Danosll]

post your compression numbers when you have them

 

[ocod]

Well for better or worse I am home with the boat, spent almost all day on the road 180+ miles each way. Overall once I stopped on the way home and spent about $5 in quarters at a car wash it looks pretty good from 20 feet away (lots of mildew stains, but most washed right off), however once you get closer a lot of little details start standing out, some of which will need to be addressed right away, some are just cosmetic.

I have already started spending some money on it, and may spend more tonight. When the seller was hooking it up the handle broke off the tongue jack, so that was detail number one, I stopped at Wal-Mart and picked one up on the way home, and managed to get it mostly installed before I ran out of light. Next up will be replacing the trailer tires / wheels, one side is low on tread, the other is starting to have dry rot, but at least it made it home ok, while we are near the tires, both plastic step fenders need replacing, the look okay, but are cracked and not stable to stand on. Also strangely enough the axle has a bearing buddy on one side, but not the other. Going up to the boat hull it is mostly good, but it looks like someone smashed the bow into something at some point in the past, the rub strake is damaged for about 8 inches and glued back together, and there are spider web cracks in the gel coat about the size of the palm of my hand around the tip of the bow. There seems to also be an old fiber glass repair about the size of my hand on the left side, good color match job, but oxidation level if different, hopefully it will buff out. Other than a few small scratches and one gouge about the size of my thumb the hull looks good. Interior seats have been recovered, but a couple of them need some repair, foam seems good though. There is a small crack in the windscreen cover over the steering pod, I am hopeful a bit of super glue will take care of that. As to the mechanical stuff we will just have to see, at least the engines are there, although it looks like someone did some creative wiring on the port side ignition box, I have already found tested working replacements on ebay for about $50. The battery is also a bit weak, I have it on a charger tonight, we will just have to wait and see on that one too.

Want to say congrats?
Did he come down any since those things weren't disclosed?

Lights are easy and tires new wheels and tires are $216 here
http://www.trailertiresandwheels.com

Dont buy anything MPEM from ebay PLEASE!!!!!!!
@Minnetonka4me has kit for the twin engine boat MPEM with programmed key.
Or send him what you have(post pics) and he may work something out to use what you have right!
Him or his brother @99spxxx will set you out with anything you need.

Spider cracks normal(post pictures if you can) / windshield crack don;t worry mine had one too

Get some HT or BT mats asap. Floor is slippery.

 

[Isaac-1]

I picked up a pair of new wheels last night at Wal-Mart, price was around $225 out the door, they are painted, not galvenized though in fact I am about to go out an put them on the trailer before it gets too hot. On the topic of mats they are near the top of the optional stuff list, and hopefully will get done as soon as the bank account refills a bit (and I can slip them by my wife). On the topic of mats there is black residue from old mats on the engine cover, do you have any advice on removing it (I will also search the forum, just have not had time yet).

thanks Ike

p.s. the wiring issue looks like the cheaper ignition box, with the relay, not the MPEM box thankfully.

 

[ocod]

I picked up a pair of new wheels last night at Wal-Mart, price was around $225 out the door, they are painted, not galvenized though in fact I am about to go out an put them on the trailer before it gets too hot. On the topic of mats they are near the top of the optional stuff list, and hopefully will get done as soon as the bank account refills a bit (and I can slip them by my wife). On the topic of mats there is black residue from old mats on the engine cover, do you have any advice on removing it (I will also search the forum, just have not had time yet).

thanks Ike

p.s. the wiring issue looks like the cheaper ignition box, with the relay, not the MPEM box thankfully.

Clean and return the wheels if you can. Walmart will take it back.
You can get better load rated tires with more ply on a aluminum wheel for less.

Goo off / Wd-40 and a lot of elbow grease. That old stuff was hard to take off

 

[Isaac-1]

The wheels will work for now, I plan to add brakes, proably a whole new axle at some point, and thse wheels can move over to a utility trailer. Now for the BIG news IT LIVES!!!

After getting the new engine installed, a new ignition coil on one engine, and new starter relay on the other, along with bits lof cleaning. Will be going to pick it up and take it for a test drive tomorrow. Still lots of little things to address that i can do as time allows myself (wear rings, pump oil, various minor electrical things, cosmetic stuff, ... but IT LIVES!!!

p.s. as to coencidence the new serial number is only about 115 off from the other one.

 

[ocod]

That sound Great!
Glad you got hands dirty early and are becoming very familiar with it.
I have a link to service manual if you need it?

Get compression numbers.

May be add some extra oil in gas and pre mix plus oil injection it has installed?
Take extra plugs.

Run boat on trailer and check for leaks.
There's a cable that works with handle under steering wheel.
It has plastic thread nut with hole in the middle for cable to run through it.
Mine were missing and water will flow in if there missing parts inside to seal it.

Stay close shore once you take off and start slow.
Don't load up family only to have boat caviate.
Once its running and not overheating with in 30mins
Go for it...............


Post some pictures

 

[Isaac-1]

Will post pictures after it gets another good bath, so far only spent 10 minutes at a car wash on the way towing it home (it was DIRTY), looks much better now, but needs at least another 10-15 minutes of power washing before it is ready for any photos (lots of mildew spots). Tomorrow will just be a quick test run, maybe take it out on the small local lake this weekend, not much a pleasure boat lake, but it is 5 miles away and has a mile or so long stump free area where people sometimes water ski.

p.s. compression is right around 150 psi all the way around

 

[ocod]

Will post pictures after it gets another good bath, so far only spent 10 minutes at a car wash on the way towing it home (it was DIRTY), looks much better now, but needs at least another 10-15 minutes of power washing before it is ready for any photos (lots of mildew spots). Tomorrow will just be a quick test run, maybe take it out on the small local lake this weekend, not much a pleasure boat lake, but it is 5 miles away and has a mile or so long stump free area where people sometimes water ski.

p.s. compression is right around 150 psi all the way around

Ohhhhhh
Your good all the way around.

I would take pumps off and check oil in cone and condition ow wear ring.
It would a preventative thing to not have pump sieze.

Is it still oil injected?

 

[Isaac-1]

Yes, still oil injected I have debated that, and for now have decide to stick with it, I did the block off plate and pre mix thing with my Kawasaki 750.

I am also thinking of going with aftermarket impellers when the bank account fills back up some in a month or so.

 

[Isaac-1]

Boat is home, sorry no pictures, and there was no in water test run today as I was dodging thunderstorms the whole way home with the boat. Did have one bit of excitement , half way home going down I-10 at 60+ mph the engine cover popped open, thankfully I was not doing 75 at the time. Some how the latch post had came unscrewed, the post was still in the latch, but was no longer screwed into the cover. I can now tell you an open engine cover makes an effective air brake, I noticed it right away even though I was towing it with an F-250 7.3 diesel, it suddenly felt like the trailer had doubled in weight.

Once I get the rest of the little things fixed, I plan to move on to the major ones, hopefully in about a month. I would like your advice on what to do first:

Hydro-Turf ?

Boat cover (it will usually be stored in a 3 sided covered shed, so not exposed to the weather, but it can get dirty / dusty.

Impeller upgrade (still need to change the pump oil and maybe wear rings, so there is an arguement to do impellers at the same time)

Each of these things are in the same ballpark cost range, so it is just a matter of what the money gets spent on first.

thanks

 

[Dr Honda]

I would do things in this order....


1) Verify that it will go.

2) Fix what needs addressed.

3) Get a good cover. Poppy Covers are Highly recommended, and Terry allways takes care of the members here. (Tell her Dr Honda sent you)

4) Once running good... yes... HydroTurf it !!!!!! Not only does it look nice, but it will cut the glare of the white, and it's a safty thing.

5) After any other "Clean-up" is accomplished... then do mods. But I will say this... you can throw a bunch of $$$ at the boat, and it won't bring your top speed up much. Skat-Trak "Swirl" impellers will improve your out of the hole, and fuel economy at mid to upper throttle settings.



Congrats, and post pics when you get a chance.

 

[ocod]

^ Yup sounds about right.

Yip it happened to me a few times.
Check "t" handle is in the lock position.

If you pull it out and turn it leaves it unlocked.

 

[Isaac-1]

Welll I decided to tackle the pumps todaychanged the oil, it was black but at least it was oil, so then I decided to take a look at the wear rings, and this is where the problemes starter, rigt side does not look too bad, but th wear ring is pitted by about 1/3 of its thickness, impller had a couple of very small dings. The left side was worse, wear ring cut all the way trough and pump housing gouged up, I need advice on if I should try putting a new ring in or replace the pump, impeller dinged abit more, but not nearly as bad as some of the photos I have seen.

Also Intake grate weed guards tines broken off on both sides, should I replace?

Second issue the loose ring of wear ring looks like it has beat up the flange that the pump mounnts is a bit beat up and pitted, do I need to replace it?

thanks ike

 

[ocod]

Fresh wear rings and new cone oil and your good to go for the season.

Post pictures for sure.
The broken tines will let stuff through pumps and possibly causing the damage.

 

[Isaac-1]

Oh I forgot to mention both pumps are metal housings, the one damaged one has some metal missing around where the back edge of the wear ring would be, also the transom mounting bracket is worn back aldo with slight damage going all the way to the fiberglass on some side, impeller on that pump is what I would call moderately dinged based on photos posted here by others.

 

[ocod]

Yip the bronze pump and solid and having no intake suggests something went through it.
I know the bronze one are the std 140 hub and may of been swapped? [MENTION=41828]Minnetonka4me[/MENTION] may be able to confirm if you need another one.

 

[Isaac-1]

Ok, finally have things fixed so I can post images, I still don't have any good boat photos I have taken, but I am starting to work on the cosmetic stuff as you can see while waiting on parts to pull the pumps again and change out carbon rings, and an impeller that is dinged up. Other photos of the boat are from the classified ad where I bought it, so no that is not my black truck or my mobile home....

p.s. what do you think of those cheap $50 boat covers sold on ebay? I will be storing the boat in a covered shed protected on 3 sides, but there is still a lot of wind blown dust, etc.

 

[ocod]

The HT mats make a world of difference.
The polish is a lot of elbow grease but well worth it when gelcote shines again.

Contact Terry at Poppy Cover and mention seadooforum for possible discount.
They have the beast cover for the money.

OSDparts is a good source for new pump parts.