Battery issues

[lee_deathorglory]

Morning all

I am joint owner of a 2004 Seadoo GTi 130 4Tec, and last weekend we had an issue with it whereby after just 45 minutes of use the battery was flat.

At this point I should prefix this with the other owner of this jetski is my brother in law who has all the mechanical knowledge of teaspoon and when someone says to him "you need to leave it on trickle charge" he thinks "it only needs to be on for a bit and then I can take it off again!"

Having a bit more technical knowledge about engines ( I spend a lot of my spare time working on my two project cars owned by me and my wife) it falls to me to ensure that its all in working order etc.

So getting back to the point:

We took the jetski out on the coast last weekend, he spent a good 40-45 mins blasting about on it and brought it back to shore so that I could go out on it, it was probably sat for a bout 10 minutes before I tried to start it, when I did it would try and immediately die, with a warning on screen saying '12 volt low' which I took to mean that the battery was low. We managed to get another battery and get it back to the launch where we could get it back on the trailer to tow it home. Where it has since been left on the trickle charger.

So my questions are these:

1. Is it just the battery thats the issue and keeping it on trickle charge will solve this?
2. Is there anything else I can check just for my own piece of mind?
a) One guy while at the beach mentioned that it could be the alternator, however to my knowledge this model doesn't have any alternator does it?
b) If it is indeed a magneto charging system can this go bad? If so what should I be looking for/testing?

Obviously I could just try it again after its been on the trickle charger for a while but for my own sanity I would like to do everything possible to make sure that none of my family are going to end up stuck out at sea on this thing.

Thanks in advance

 

[skiasylum]

Your right it is a magneto charging system and there are very few complaints on this forum that it doesn’t work properly. Batteries on the other hand, especially vented lead acid that are not stored at full charge fail quite frequently. If your battery is bad (sulfated) no amount of trickle charging is going to bring it back to life. Take it out, have it bench tested, verify that it is bad and get yourself a new battery. I just put a new sealed AGM in mine which are available at most battery and auto parts stores. The Yuasa vented lead acid OEM battery is shipped dry without battery acid and is more expensive than the AGM sealed. My AGM sealed has been in for 20 hours and about two weeks and is working fine.

 

[lee_deathorglory]

Your right it is a magneto charging system and there are very few complaints on this forum that it doesn’t work properly. Batteries on the other hand, especially vented lead acid that are not stored at full charge fail quite frequently. If your battery is bad (sulfated) no amount of trickle charging is going to bring it back to life. Take it out, have it bench tested, verify that it is bad and get yourself a new battery. I just put a new sealed AGM in mine which are available at most battery and auto parts stores. The Yuasa vented lead acid OEM battery is shipped dry without battery acid and is more expensive than the AGM sealed. My AGM sealed has been in for 20 hours and about two weeks and is working fine.

Thanks for your reply,

we bought a new Yuasa battery (not sure if its vented or AGM) on the day from a local marine specialist and it was checked in the store to have "some charge" and was enough to get us back to launch to tow it home, since then the new battery has been on trickle charge but still have the old battery so I might try and get that tested.

But basically what you're saying is as long as the new battery is kept on the trickle charge while not in use we should be okay?

 

[skiasylum]

Thanks for your reply,

we bought a new Yuasa battery (not sure if its vented or AGM) on the day from a local marine specialist and it was checked in the store to have "some charge" and was enough to get us back to launch to tow it home, since then the new battery has been on trickle charge but still have the old battery so I might try and get that tested.

But basically what you're saying is as long as the new battery is kept on the trickle charge while not in use we should be okay?

Basically what I’m saying is that lead acid batteries do not like not being stored at a near or full state of charge for long periods of time. They naturally discharge on their own. They will then sulfate and lose their ability to hold a charge. If you initially fully charge your new battery and use your jet ski a couple times a month the ski charging system will keep your battery fully charged. So no need to top charge it during the season. Its during off season storage when the battery should be removed from the ski and kept on a battery tender to prolong its life. Also lead acid batteries do not liked to be overcharged so keeping it on a small old school 1 amp trickle charger for more than the recommended initial charge time can also destroy your new battery. A 1 amp battery tender/ charger is a much better solution.

 

[simcity]

Basically what I’m saying is that lead acid batteries do not like not being stored at a near or full state of charge for long periods of time. They will sulfate and lose their ability to hold a charge. If you initially fully charge your new battery and use your jet ski a couple times a month the ski charging system will keep your battery fully charged. So no need to top charge it during the season. Its during off season storage when the battery should be removed from the ski and kept on a battery tender to prolong its life.

That’s confused me, as I’m led to understand that it’s a prolonged low state of charge that ruin ls lead-acid batteries due to the onset of sulphation of the plates.

On the other hand keeping a lead acid battery at or near its full state of charge, as long as it’s not over-charged, is absolutely fine for it. Much better than leaving it partially discharged, especially when temps fall.

Other battery chemistries - for example lithium ion, actually are better stored at a partial state of charge (~ 50%) to prolong cell life.

 

[jonniex5]

I have a 2009 130 SE GTI,
It sound to me like your battery started out fully charged and lost voltage as it was used for the 45 minutes, I would charge the battery and get the engine started and put a volt meter on the battery to see if the stator and voltage regulator are working. you should see @ 13.5 volts at the battery when running. (disconnect the battery in the ski before you attach the charger)
If you don't see the 13.5 volts at the battery you may have a bad voltage regulator.
I replaced mine last night because of the exact issue you had. I rode for 15-20 minutes and it started running rough and started with a low voltage flash on the gauge and then the P0526 code was flashing.
I have a new fully charged battery in it but without it being charged it keeps the engine powered up until the voltage drops low enough to show those issues.
When I puled the old regulator out, the back side where the epoxy is was blown apart and smelled burnt. It was an aftermarket regulator. I put an OEM in and will give it a test ride tonight.

 

[lee_deathorglory]

I have a 2009 130 SE GTI,
It sound to me like your battery started out fully charged and lost voltage as it was used for the 45 minutes, I would charge the battery and get the engine started and put a volt meter on the battery to see if the stator and voltage regulator are working. you should see @ 13.5 volts at the battery when running. (disconnect the battery in the ski before you attach the charger)
If you don't see the 13.5 volts at the battery you may have a bad voltage regulator.
I replaced mine last night because of the exact issue you had. I rode for 15-20 minutes and it started running rough and started with a low voltage flash on the gauge and then the P0526 code was flashing.
I have a new fully charged battery in it but without it being charged it keeps the engine powered up until the voltage drops low enough to show those issues.
When I puled the old regulator out, the back side where the epoxy is was blown apart and smelled burnt. It was an aftermarket regulator. I put an OEM in and will give it a test ride tonight.

I will definitely investigate this, thank you

 

[lee_deathorglory]

Basically what I’m saying is that lead acid batteries do not like not being stored at a near or full state of charge for long periods of time. They naturally discharge on their own. They will then sulfate and lose their ability to hold a charge. If you initially fully charge your new battery and use your jet ski a couple times a month the ski charging system will keep your battery fully charged. So no need to top charge it during the season. Its during off season storage when the battery should be removed from the ski and kept on a battery tender to prolong its life. Also lead acid batteries do not liked to be overcharged so keeping it on a small old school 1 amp trickle charger for more than the recommended initial charge time can also destroy your new battery. A 1 amp battery tender/ charger is a much better solution.

Thanks for clarification

 

[lee_deathorglory]

That’s confused me, as I’m led to understand that it’s a prolonged low state of charge that ruin ls lead-acid batteries due to the onset of sulphation of the plates.

On the other hand keeping a lead acid battery at or near its full state of charge, as long as it’s not over-charged, is absolutely fine for it. Much better than leaving it partially discharged, especially when temps fall.

Other battery chemistries - for example lithium ion, actually are better stored at a partial state of charge (~ 50%) to prolong cell life.

To be honest this is exactly what we were told when we first bought the jet ski.

however, the brother in law took that to mean put it on the trickle charge for a bit and the take it off again...

I definitely feel a bit more confident about taking it out again knowing that now it has a full battery and its on the trickle charge when not in use.

But obviously I still have to check the voltage regulator as @jonniex5 mentioned more for my own piece of mind than anything else.

Thanks again folks

 

[jonniex5]

This id the aftermarket voltage regulator, the OEM has a full aluminum bottom to help with heat dissipation.
By the way as with any electronic item, Once you let the smoke out it won't work any more.
Keep the smoke in!
Good luck

 

[lee_deathorglory]

This id the aftermarket voltage regulator, the OEM has a full aluminum bottom to help with heat dissipation.
By the way as with any electronic item, Once you let the smoke out it won't work any more.
Keep the smoke in!
Good luck

Thanks very much

 

[lee_deathorglory]

I have a 2009 130 SE GTI,
It sound to me like your battery started out fully charged and lost voltage as it was used for the 45 minutes, I would charge the battery and get the engine started and put a volt meter on the battery to see if the stator and voltage regulator are working. you should see @ 13.5 volts at the battery when running. (disconnect the battery in the ski before you attach the charger)
If you don't see the 13.5 volts at the battery you may have a bad voltage regulator.
I replaced mine last night because of the exact issue you had. I rode for 15-20 minutes and it started running rough and started with a low voltage flash on the gauge and then the P0526 code was flashing.
I have a new fully charged battery in it but without it being charged it keeps the engine powered up until the voltage drops low enough to show those issues.
When I puled the old regulator out, the back side where the epoxy is was blown apart and smelled burnt. It was an aftermarket regulator. I put an OEM in and will give it a test ride tonight.

Hi sorry for the delayed reply, have only just been able to get back to the jet ski as we keep it at my in-laws on the coast. I’ve checked the voltage at the battery and I’m not seeing 13.5c I’m seeing 14.45v while running

which if the number you mentioned is correct that says it’s over charging the battery to me, which would indicate that the regulator is faulty, would you say this assumption is correct?

thanks in advance.

 

[jonniex5]

Lee,
I had a high voltage alarm on mine which prompted the voltage regulator replacement to the aftermarket one.
All was fine until it melted down and had a low voltage code.
I replaced with OEM and all is well.
In order to charge a battery you need to produce over 12 volts.
Your car will usually be around 14.2 - 14.5 when charging.
Also the electronics don't like to live in a overvoltage condition.
Is your voltage regulator bad? I can't say for sure, but my experience with mine was seeing @ 14.8 volts at idle and I was getting a loud beep and a "voltage hi" warning on the display. Replacing the regulator (only use OEM) corrected this condition.
The voltage for correct battery charging and operation in my manual is 14.5 volts at 5000 RPM's
If you get those results I would say its ok.
Next thing I would do is replace the battery.
Good luck.

 

[lee_deathorglory]

I’m getting 14.5 volts at idle I haven’t tried revving to 5000rpm but will try, I haven’t had an alarm go off yet though.

the battery is brand new it was bought last time we used it to get the ski back to the trailer.

 

[lee_deathorglory]

update:

so I’ve tested it again, getting the wife to Rev the ski up to 5k while I test the battery.
The voltage starts at 14.5k and stays at 14.5k all the way up to 5k.

Really not sure what to think now, it could be fine and it could have just been a bad battery the last time we used it there could be something more behind the issue.

 

[jonniex5]

That regulator looks to be operating properly.
So with the new battery are you still having a problem or does it run ok now?
If its ok it must have been the battery.
Personally I don't like constant trickle chargers, I think the do more harm than good over time.
I pull the batteries from the summer and winter toys off season and keep in a heated garage. I put my good charger on them once a month to keep them topped off. I seem to get more life out of them than when I had the trickle chargers.
I would imagine a good "Battery Maintainer " with the proper circuitry to only keep the battery topped up when needed would be fine but they are pricey.
Ride safe!

 

[lee_deathorglory]

See this is the problem I didn’t want to take it out again until I was happy that it was just the battery that was the issue. Which was why I started asking if there was anything else to check

I’m starting to lean towards it being the battery on this occasion, was just hoping to find a more conclusive answer to give me a bit more confidence it wasn’t going to conk out again

 

[POPPS]

With the battery at least 12.5 volts,,,load test it,,,to rule out the battery,,,then you can eliminate the rectifier,,,/ stator,

 

[skiasylum]

Yep your voltage regulator is right where it’s suppose to be at 14.4 volts at 5000 RPM, the current or amperage at 5000 rpm should be 10 amps. You need both to properly charge a battery. This can be checked with a ammeter on the negative battery lead with the ski running at 5000 RPM. Also in reviewing your first post you might have caused harm to your new battery when it was installed and used at a low state of charge. That is a new battery no no. Get it load tested as POPPS mentioned.