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Avoiding the Ethanol Blues (Storage and running information)

Coastiejoe

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Interesting reading...

If your boat's engine runs on gasoline, then you need to be careful how you put your fuel to bed for the winter. These days, most gasoline you buy at a gas station or fuel dock comes with 10 percent ethanol, which can cause problems if stored for months, especially if the temperature is changing. Ethanol is hydrophilic - it attracts and holds water. Small amounts of water will be burned in the combustion cycle, but ethanol can only absorb so much water. When it becomes completely saturated, phase separation occurs, and the corrosive ethanol-water mixture sinks to the bottom of the tank. If the engine is run, this mixture can damage seals, O-rings, injectors, and other delicate engine parts. The upper "gasoline" layer will be depleted of ethanol and have a reduced octane level, which can also cause engine problems. Leaving your tank half full for the winter can greatly increase the problems. First, there is more room in the tank and less fuel, which means more surface area for condensation formation and less ethanol to absorb the resulting water. Second, cycling temperatures from warm to cold also increases the amount of condensation. Finally, ethanol cannot absorb as much water at low temperatures as it can when it's warmer, so the gasoline will phase separate more quickly in colder temperatures. So what to do? If you can empty your tank completely, you should do so. If not, add stabilizer and fill it most of the way, leaving room for expansion and contraction of the gasoline

Additional Reading (Continued from same article).
Ever since E10 (a gasoline blend with 10 percent ethanol) became widespread, there have been two schools of thought when it comes to winterizing your boat: Keep the tank full, or empty it completely.

Both sides agree on the basic facts. Ethanol is hydrophilic — it attracts and holds water. Small amounts of water will be burned in the combustion cycle, but ethanol can only absorb so much water. When it becomes completely saturated, phase separation occurs, and the corrosive ethanol-water mixture sinks to the bottom of the tank. If the engine is run, this mixture can damage seals, O-rings, injectors, and other delicate engine parts. The upper "gasoline" layer will be depleted of ethanol and have a reduced octane level, which can also cause engine problems. If a tank is left partially full, there is more room in the tank, which means more surface area for condensation formation and less ethanol to absorb the resulting water. Cycling temperatures from warm to cold also increases the amount of condensation. Finally, ethanol cannot absorb as much water at low temperatures as it can when it's warmer, so the gasoline will phase separate more quickly in colder temperatures.

The obvious answer is to completely empty the tank — and even the fuel lines and filters if possible. But any boat owner with a gas tank capacity of more than a few gallons will tell you how problematic it is to completely drain it, and some indoor storage facilities don't allow empty tanks because they may contain volatile fumes (usually there is an exception for portable tanks that are empty and uncapped). USCG regulations prohibit drain valves on the bottom of a gas tank (imagine what would happen if one corroded through or broke off, leaving a bilge full of gasoline) so the only way to remove gas from a large tank is by pumping it out. Too many of our claim files prove that using something like a shop vac to do the job will land you in the hospital. Finding ignition-protected equipment and transporting and disposing of the gas afterward is simply not practical for the average boat owner.

That's why Seaworthy has always been in the keep-it-full camp. We are, after all, boat owners, so we're forced to take our own advice. If it's impractical or impossible to empty the tank completely, then keeping it full should make it more difficult for enough water to get into the fuel to cause problems. But just in case we missed something, we asked some industry experts for their thoughts on the subject.

Bob Popiel, head of marine service at Yamaha, said his preference is complete draining of the fuel system including tank, fuel lines, carburetor bowls, and the vapor separator tank (VST). VSTs, he says, can hold a cup of fuel and they're vented to the atmosphere, as are carburetor bowls. The VST has a drain, but it is hard to access for a typical owner, while on older engines, carburetor bowls have drains that most people can get to, he says. Draining the system is even more important on older engines (10-15 years old) because they don't have the same ethanol-resistant parts that new engines do. That said, Popiel knows that draining the whole fuel system is often difficult, so another option is to simply disconnect the fuel supply and let the engine run out of fuel, which will at least drain most of the gas from the VST or float bowls. If you choose not to drain the system, he recommends adding a good quality stabilizer to fuel, topping up the tank, and running the engine enough to get fuel all the way through the system. Ten minutes ought to do it, he says.

John McKnight, director of environmental and safety compliance with the National Marine Manufacturers Association, says, if you're storing gasoline for two months or more, try to drain the tank if possible. If it's not practical, add stabilizer, fill the tank, and run the engine for 10 minutes to allow the treated gasoline to get into the fuel system.

Mercury Marine says that if it is difficult or not possible to remove the fuel, maintain a full tank of fuel with a fuel stabilizer added to provide fuel stability and corrosion protection. Top off the tank until it's full to reduce the amount of exchange with the air that might bring in condensation, don't cap the tank vent, and don't fill with fuel to the point of overflowing so there is some extra space in the tank to allow for fuel expansion and contraction with temperature changes.

So there you have it. If you can empty your tank — and entire fuel system — for the winter and your storage facility allows it, then do it. But where that's impractical, keep the tank full, add a stabilizer, run the engine for 10 minutes, and sleep well
 
great post! thanks. probably would hurt to add a tad of octane boost at the beginning of spring as well. thoughts?
 
Another benefit of draining your tank empty is there will be no doubt about the quality of the fuel come spring. Two stroke engines are very sensitive to fuel quality, once octane is lost piston-killing detonation can occur.

I empty my tank by placing the fuel valve in reserve position and siphoning the fuel from the tube which normally connects to the fuel pump. I guess many owners with fuel injection could experience a tough time draining their tanks completely without using their electric fuel pump to do the job.
 
Once again.... the ethanol issue rears it's ugly head.



Just put Marine Sty-Bil in the fuel, and don't worry. (don't drain it, don't top it off) We've had e10 for +10 years in Pitt, and I have NEVER once had an issue with it. (other than the Tempo hose issue)
 
Will do for the jet skies, but the boat sees action year round :) The same fuel won't stay there more than a few weeks at a time.
 
Once again.... the ethanol issue rears it's ugly head.



Just put Marine Sty-Bil in the fuel, and don't worry. (don't drain it, don't top it off) We've had e10 for +10 years in Pitt, and I have NEVER once had an issue with it. (other than the Tempo hose issue)

I'm with you. I posted it as it was recently asked and it was specific to winterizing and storing your toys.

I do the full thing with Stabil and leave it alone.
 
I'm with you. I posted it as it was recently asked and it was specific to winterizing and storing your toys.

I do the full thing with Stabil and leave it alone.

That's what I figured... but over the years, I see posts from guys who get crazy about the subject. Especially the guys who drive 20 mi out of their way to buy E-free fuel. OR... there was even a post about a guy trying to distill out the ethanol.


With that said... I put in a small amount of sta-bil marine, every time I put fuel in my toys. SO... that in itself helps keep the fuel in tact. But, last season... I was rebuilding the boat, and my ski's got very little use. AND... I can guarantee that the fuel in my XP was over a year old at the beginning of this season. (I ride my Polaris more) But, when I pulled it out for a long, 45 mi ride this year.... I put 2 gal of fresh fuel in the tank, and it ran PERFECT !!!!! If members don't believe me... ask Big Jake. He's the one who rode it on the trip out to the point of Pitt.


Hey... I know you travel a lot for work.... but next season... you need to think about heading out here for a ride. There are a few active members around here. (Me, Big Jake, DSW222, DjRedman99)

Look how nice it is around Pitt.


227.jpg
 
Once again.... the ethanol issue rears it's ugly head.



Just put Marine Sty-Bil in the fuel, and don't worry. (don't drain it, don't top it off) We've had e10 for +10 years in Pitt, and I have NEVER once had an issue with it. (other than the Tempo hose issue)

Yep, I used to do sta-bil and top the tank off, then with the price of gas fluctuating I skipped topping the tank off and just use Marine Sta-bil. I have NEVER had a problem.

Here's the funny question I have to ask. How many of you guys drain the gas or top it off in your Lawn Mower, Weedwacker, leaf blower, etc....

I'll say probably......0
 
Yep, I used to do sta-bil and top the tank off, then with the price of gas fluctuating I skipped topping the tank off and just use Marine Sta-bil. I have NEVER had a problem.

Here's the funny question I have to ask. How many of you guys drain the gas or top it off in your Lawn Mower, Weedwacker, leaf blower, etc....

I'll say probably......0

It may not be Zero,,, but it is close for sure.

Funny how we people think..
 
Yep, I used to do sta-bil and top the tank off, then with the price of gas fluctuating I skipped topping the tank off and just use Marine Sta-bil. I have NEVER had a problem.

Here's the funny question I have to ask. How many of you guys drain the gas or top it off in your Lawn Mower, Weedwacker, leaf blower, etc....

I'll say probably......0

Michigan weather....
In my water toys I just add Sta-bil to whatever gas is in the tank and leave it until Spring....no problems
In my yard machines I almost always drain the drain the tank and run it until the motor stops. then I fog it. Never a problem in the Spring.
In my snowblower (5HP) I make sure I do that since it sits for a longer period up to 7-8 months. the mower sits anywhere from 3-5 months (yes, I've cut the grass in Dec in 2 different yrs.)
 
Yes, zero is hard to say because I know I put it in my stuff, LOL. But it is amazing how people rationalize what to do to what. With a vintage car that barely get driven I rely on the Sta-Bil to help keep the gas useable.
 
Michigan weather....
In my water toys I just add Sta-bil to whatever gas is in the tank and leave it until Spring....no problems
In my yard machines I almost always drain the drain the tank and run it until the motor stops. then I fog it. Never a problem in the Spring.
In my snowblower (5HP) I make sure I do that since it sits for a longer period up to 7-8 months. the mower sits anywhere from 3-5 months (yes, I've cut the grass in Dec in 2 different yrs.)

LOL, I cut the grass and edge the sidewalk and driveways for the last time every year on December 24th. I like the yard to be leaf free and tightened up for Xmas when the folks come over. Believe it or not I just replaced(Mid July) the battery in my John Deere lawn tractor that I got new in 2000. So 13 seasons on the OEM battery ain't bad, it pays to keep them indoors in a climate controlled room over the winter. It never saw a battery tender or a charger ever. Needless to say I went back to the dealer and complained about the life of the battery and bought another OEM battery.
 
.................

Here's the funny question I have to ask. How many of you guys drain the gas or top it off in your Lawn Mower, Weedwacker, leaf blower, etc....

I'll say probably......0


My tractor, and push mower just get a shot of Sta-Bil, and then a quick fog... and are put in the shed for the winter. My snow blower gets drained, since it sits for more time during the non-snow months. My weed-eater, Chainsaw, leaf-blowers, and hedge trimmer all get run on WHITE FUEL !! It's Pure, with no additives. So, water attraction, varnish, and general break-down is a non issue. Besides... burning white fuel... you don't stink like fuel and 2-stroke after you are done cutting the grass.
 
My tractor, and push mower just get a shot of Sta-Bil, and then a quick fog... and are put in the shed for the winter. My snow blower gets drained, since it sits for more time during the non-snow months. My weed-eater, Chainsaw, leaf-blowers, and hedge trimmer all get run on WHITE FUEL !! It's Pure, with no additives. So, water attraction, varnish, and general break-down is a non issue. Besides... burning white fuel... you don't stink like fuel and 2-stroke after you are done cutting the grass.

What's "WHITE FUEL"?
can any 2 stroke yard machine run on it?
Wait, let's see now, I only mix gas/oil in my weedwhacker & leaf blower....all others have an oil fill hole....mower, shredder, power washer.
 
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