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Another GTX Di
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tkarvelis
Active Member
The rave valve will only open at mid rpm I believe.
While looking for a replacement fuel filter for my DI, I did read a post that someone had a similar issue with a di, and it turned out to be bad or dirty fuel injectors. He replaced them and was good to go. There is a place in NY that does clean the di injectors for $25 I believe.
While looking for a replacement fuel filter for my DI, I did read a post that someone had a similar issue with a di, and it turned out to be bad or dirty fuel injectors. He replaced them and was good to go. There is a place in NY that does clean the di injectors for $25 I believe.
jhjesse
Well-Known Member
68ragtop
Well-Known Member
everytime? For some reason I thought it had to run for a certain amount of time. Could be just 10 seconds I suppose but I thought I recall them not cycling if its only run for a just a bit.
I know they won't cycle at all if there are certain faults, so maybe I am confusing the two things
jhjesse
Well-Known Member
Seems like they do. I could be wrong, but I don't remember a time when they didn't cycle.
68ragtop
Well-Known Member
Did you have your injectors cleaned or replaced? No doubt messed up injectors would cause trouble. did yours miss, or run rough? I just didn't expect both side to run the same when disconnected, but both of them could be bad.
I think I have a spare set of injectors.......
I think I have a spare set of injectors.......
jhjesse
Well-Known Member
Yes my rx di was beginning to miss a little at wot last season, so I purchased two replacements from the above link. I am going to send the replaced ones to the same place for cleaning when I can remember to do so.
Oh yeah that fixed my ski. She runs great.
G&J
New Member
Hi
Connector 2 on MPEM was the one with a little corrosion. Pulled the complete MPEM out this afternoon and cleaned all connectors, reinstalled - no change.
Checked main air hose/line from compressor to rail - no muck or moisture etc.
Pulled fuel filter and checked clean/flows well - no problem.
Wadya reackon invest in a couple of fuel injectors? in for a penny in for a pound...
I am now at the point where pottering around with the beast has become my hobby
and even if we buy another unit, because this one is not much use at the moment, I will keep it and continue pottering unitil it works!!!
Alternatively maybe I need to make a visit to a friendly dealer for hookup to the magical machine to narrow down the fault.
eDiT: Being doing some reading, forums and the service manual, lazy Saturday afternoon pondering GTX Di and the meaning of life (42)..... Given the test results I have been getting (putting aside voltage issue for a moment and focusing on idle) it looks to me, and my knowledge of Di's wouldn't fill a thimble, like either air pressure as previously suggested or TPS.
I will build a rig so I can test air pressure, got a gauge just gotta work out what parts I need from the local auto parts mob.
Am I correct in that TPS can only be checked and adjusted with CanDoo / BUDS etc?
Connector 2 on MPEM was the one with a little corrosion. Pulled the complete MPEM out this afternoon and cleaned all connectors, reinstalled - no change.
Checked main air hose/line from compressor to rail - no muck or moisture etc.
Pulled fuel filter and checked clean/flows well - no problem.
Wadya reackon invest in a couple of fuel injectors? in for a penny in for a pound...
I am now at the point where pottering around with the beast has become my hobby
and even if we buy another unit, because this one is not much use at the moment, I will keep it and continue pottering unitil it works!!!Alternatively maybe I need to make a visit to a friendly dealer for hookup to the magical machine to narrow down the fault.
eDiT: Being doing some reading, forums and the service manual, lazy Saturday afternoon pondering GTX Di and the meaning of life (42)..... Given the test results I have been getting (putting aside voltage issue for a moment and focusing on idle) it looks to me, and my knowledge of Di's wouldn't fill a thimble, like either air pressure as previously suggested or TPS.
I will build a rig so I can test air pressure, got a gauge just gotta work out what parts I need from the local auto parts mob.
Am I correct in that TPS can only be checked and adjusted with CanDoo / BUDS etc?
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G&J
New Member
68ragtop
Well-Known Member
The TPS's can be checked for resistance, but thats about it. There is a baseline for setting them up, but once they are setup correctly there is a setting in the ECU/mpem that learns there position. But, I have swapped out throttle bodies without making that setting & it doesn't effect the idle "smoothness", it effects the fuel mixture from idle to wide open. so its not lean or rich. As long as the throttle body has never been messed or TPS's changed, no need to zero them & its only done with the buds or candoo anyway.
BUT, something is amuck with your pressures. It could be the angle, but your total pressure looks a little low to me. When its idling it looks like you needle is bouncing between 100 & 90 which means you have 95 psi.
That could be your gage, but the lower pressures 25-27 is exactly right, so I assume its accurate at higher pressures.
Here's the kicker, if you are 10lbs low because of fuel pressure, that could cause your idle problem. the 27lbs above the air pressure is critical. But if you are 10 lbs low because of air pressure, that shouldn't cause an idle problem.
E.G #1: 68psi air + 27psi fuel = 95, but should run smooth at idle.
E.G #2 : 80psi air + 15psi fuel = 95, but would not run smooth
I suspect something is going on with the air side. The air should not dump that quick. That drop from 100 to 25 would appear to be from the air side. Even with the rave solenoid plugged in, you should see a drop in pressure with each "click" of the solenoid, but your dumps so quick I'm not sure they would even cycle?
can you get your hands on another gage that goes to 100 or 150? all you need to do is pull the air line out of the rail, remove the o-ring (so it doesn't get damaged), then clamp a hose between the gage & the air line. Dead headed on that line, Crank the engine over in flood mode. You should see 90 psi & when you stop cranking it should hold pressure, it will drop some from the max you achieved, but should not just disappear.
If it does disappear there is a leak somewhere. could be the line, the valve in the compressor, or a leak in the line going to the rave solenoid.
BUT, something is amuck with your pressures. It could be the angle, but your total pressure looks a little low to me. When its idling it looks like you needle is bouncing between 100 & 90 which means you have 95 psi.
That could be your gage, but the lower pressures 25-27 is exactly right, so I assume its accurate at higher pressures.
Here's the kicker, if you are 10lbs low because of fuel pressure, that could cause your idle problem. the 27lbs above the air pressure is critical. But if you are 10 lbs low because of air pressure, that shouldn't cause an idle problem.
E.G #1: 68psi air + 27psi fuel = 95, but should run smooth at idle.
E.G #2 : 80psi air + 15psi fuel = 95, but would not run smooth
I suspect something is going on with the air side. The air should not dump that quick. That drop from 100 to 25 would appear to be from the air side. Even with the rave solenoid plugged in, you should see a drop in pressure with each "click" of the solenoid, but your dumps so quick I'm not sure they would even cycle?
can you get your hands on another gage that goes to 100 or 150? all you need to do is pull the air line out of the rail, remove the o-ring (so it doesn't get damaged), then clamp a hose between the gage & the air line. Dead headed on that line, Crank the engine over in flood mode. You should see 90 psi & when you stop cranking it should hold pressure, it will drop some from the max you achieved, but should not just disappear.
If it does disappear there is a leak somewhere. could be the line, the valve in the compressor, or a leak in the line going to the rave solenoid.
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68ragtop
Well-Known Member
Do you know if the value in the book a tolerance, or an initial setting? I don't recall.
tkarvelis
Active Member
There are values. If you go to section 7 (Engine mgmt) pg 377 or so, it list the resistance, voltage, and pin numbers. I dont know if the TPS would cause this.
If the TPS sensor thought the throttle was full open, the MPEM would tell the injectors to dump fuel into the cylinder, and you should have wet plugs.
Also if it thought it was closed (idle), it would run fine at idle, but run lean and hesitate at full throttle.
Just my thought on how the TPS should work.
If the TPS sensor thought the throttle was full open, the MPEM would tell the injectors to dump fuel into the cylinder, and you should have wet plugs.
Also if it thought it was closed (idle), it would run fine at idle, but run lean and hesitate at full throttle.
Just my thought on how the TPS should work.
68ragtop
Well-Known Member
As I recall the TPS sensors are redundant. The MPEM uses both sensors simultaneously to make sure they are reading the same and if they are not, it will go into full idle only limp mode. So I would think if one was bad the maint would come on & not rev up? My thinking is the redundancy is to to prevent a runway ski. Seeing the engine injects both air & gas, it could potentially take off with the throttle at idle if the TPS gave a bad reading. guessing BRP added that for liability reasons. I don't think the mpem would inject more fuel without more air. I think those ratios are locked together in the mapping of the module. Not positive on that, but it would make sense. Just my guess....
One of use needs to get a ski out of storage soon I enjoy G&J's persistence & not giving up. This thing can be fixed the way we are all going about it, but its going to take a few more tools to further test things. IF the fuel gage looked completely normal, I would say get the buds, or candoo, but its not quite right IMO. worth get that figured out before going to the next thing Im thinking.
The bad news is, I don't think an air leak would cause this running problem, unless its an air injector that is leaking.
Kinda mad at myself for not making videos of testing these thing over the past few years.
One of use needs to get a ski out of storage soon
I enjoy G&J's persistence & not giving up. This thing can be fixed the way we are all going about it, but its going to take a few more tools to further test things. IF the fuel gage looked completely normal, I would say get the buds, or candoo, but its not quite right IMO. worth get that figured out before going to the next thing Im thinking.The bad news is, I don't think an air leak would cause this running problem, unless its an air injector that is leaking.
Kinda mad at myself for not making videos of testing these thing over the past few years.
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tkarvelis
Active Member
I agree. We need to get a ski out, but it will need to be yours since mine is in pieces. I am rebuilding the engine. I purchased the ski with a bad engine, so it is a full rebuild. I have the fuel tank out, so the filters are getting replaced. It is going to get some gel work if it warms up, and stops snowing. 1-3" today...
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