Actively attempting to remove wear ring - HELP NEEDED!

[SeptemberC]

Steering cable bolt broke. Does anyone know what size SS bolt it is?
YES I've been using PB Blaster for 2 weeks.

 

[Dr Honda]

On the ride plate.. did you hold the nuts on the back side?

I will have to check my boat for the bolt size.

 

[SeptemberC]

He got the Philips out of the ride plate finally. Yes he had the lock nuts backed off. It was CRAZY how hard they were to remove. I hate that they are Philips! We had put the extended ride plate on it this spring and used never seize. It's almost like they were bent.

We had to use a torch to heat ALL bolts to get them to break free. Even after me spraying PB Blaster on EVERTHING (I mean everything lol) for 2 weeks!


We can't budge the stator. He managed to get it to separate slightly on the bottom side. He tapped it back together trying to make movement. We soaked it with PB Blaster. We have quit for the day and will start again tomorrow morning.

We would appreciate any suggestions on how to get the stator off and anything else that anyone has had problems with. EVERYTHING that we have removed has had major SALT in it like you're shaking a salt shaker.

Another question. . . If the impeller/drive shaft nut is stuck, when and if we ever get that far, Is there any reason that we can't use heat to try and get it loose?

Doc thanks for checking on the size of the bolt but I'm fearful that it's a SPECIAL bolt and I'm gonna be stuck until I can get one ordered. . .unless someone has a spare laying around.




OH AND THE MANUAL says to use Loctite. . .Uh NO thank you!!! Is there anything that definitely should have BLUE Loctite on it? If not, never seize is going on everything.

 

[SeptemberC]

I'm already sorry that I made him dive into replacing the wear ring. . .:facepalm:

 

[Dr Honda]

Unfortunately... a salt water boat is always rough to work on. I remember someone last season trying to get the pump out... and he wound up just cutting the mounting plate apart to get it out. Basically... everything welds together from salt corrosion/growth.

I just got in from a biz trip last night (was in Manhattan/NY)... but after I get a little coffee in me... I will go look at the bolt.

I'm glad you got the ride plate bolts out. They are a pain. But since they need to be countersunk, there's not really a better option other than Philips.

When I have to deal with a stuck pump on a regular seadoo.... I will use ratchet straps to put pressure on it... and then start hitting it with a hammer. Between the pressure, and shock... it will pop loose. Let me look at the Merc pump a little, and I'll see if there is an obvious way to make that happen.

I don't think that nut will be stuck. That's all stainless steel. If you do want to use a little heat... keep it on the nut. You don't really want to get that shaft too hot, because you could destroy the seals in the gear box. To fix them... the engine and pump have to come out of the boat.

OK... give me a few, and I'll get back to you.

 

[Dr Honda]

The bolt isn't a big deal. It's a standard 1/4-20 bolt. Head to the hardware store, and get one the right length, and a new nut. With that said... the old nut was a locking nut. (you may see pressed in edges) You want to get a replacement that will lock. (I recommend a nylock style) You don't want to lose steering !!


After looking at my boat... the manual... and some parts explosions... I think I would use a couple ratchet straps. Hook them into the edges, bolt holes... or cable holes. Hook them up to the loops on the transom where the trailer straps go. Then... put a little pressure on the ring. It may start to move... but if it doesn't... tap on the ring with a metal hammer. (not wood or rubber) You want the shock of metal on metal. Then... go back and forth with the hammer, and tightening the straps. It will pop eventually.

 

[SeptemberC]

The bolt isn't a big deal. It's a standard 1/4-20 bolt. Head to the hardware store, and get one the right length, and a new nut. With that said... the old nut was a locking nut. (you may see pressed in edges) You want to get a replacement that will lock. (I recommend a nylock style) You don't want to lose steering !!


After looking at my boat... the manual... and some parts explosions... I think I would use a couple ratchet straps. Hook them into the edges, bolt holes... or cable holes. Hook them up to the loops on the transom where the trailer straps go. Then... put a little pressure on the ring. It may start to move... but if it doesn't... tap on the ring with a metal hammer. (not wood or rubber) You want the shock of metal on metal. Then... go back and forth with the hammer, and tightening the straps. It will pop eventually.

Thank you. That's a great idea. I stayed up until 2 AM searching for how others may have removed a stuck stator / wear ring. I understand your ratchet strap instructions so I'll try that first.

Some smart chemical person needs to develop a product that can be applied to things like this that will soak in and break up Salt water corrosion. There doesn't appear to be much corrosion on any of the screws and bolts and rudder and nozzle, it's just the bolts when we pull them out The threads are full of salt. It was never left in the water, always stored in dry dock. And it's in such good shape it doesn't look like it was used much. I'll cross my fingers and keep in touch with our progress. I know I picked at crappy weekend.

That bolt we broke had a smooth top to it I'm assuming where the Heim joint is. Did you see my picture of the bolt above?

 

[Dr Honda]

..

Some smart chemical person needs to develop a product that can be applied to things like this that will soak in and break up Salt water corrosion. .............

They have... it's called muriatic acid. BUT... that eats everything if you aren't careful. The issue is... when aluminum (and most metals) oxidize... it expands. That expansion is what sticks the parts together. SO... you need something to eat away the "Rust". But, since aluminum is soft... it quickly eats the good metal too. Things like PB Blaster go in, and help break up the loose stuff... but doesn't do much for the actual expansion.

.. That bolt had a smooth top to it I'm assuming where the Heim joint is. Did you see my picture of the bolt above?
View attachment 36218

I saw the pic... and the smooth section is a piece of tube that is slid over the bolt. But, it's probably stuck from either old thread locker, or the bolt is bent.

But honestly... it's not a big deal. The heim joint will get clamped between the washers.

 

[SeptemberC]

Progress. . .






TA DA!!


The steering cable nut was stuck of course so a little heat fixed that!



Used an 1 1/8" wrench and a piece of 4x4 and using the impeller removal socket the nut came off and the impeller slid right off! YAY!


Wear ring tolerance was tight so the gap couldn't have been a problem but it is scarred up with some deep pitted areas at the bottom where maybe salt water sat. ???

WEAR RING WILL NOT COME OFF!





More suggestions??

 

[SeptemberC]

They have... it's called muriatic acid. BUT... that eats everything if you aren't careful. The issue is... when aluminum (and most metals) oxidize... it expands. That expansion is what sticks the parts together. SO... you need something to eat away the "Rust". But, since aluminum is soft... it quickly eats the good metal too. Things like PB Blaster go in, and help break up the loose stuff... but doesn't do much for the actual expansion.

We STRAIGHTENED the I Hooks trying to pull it out... I hooks straightened and wear ring did not budge.


We have beat on it and beat on it and pulled on it and cussed at it. LOL

One other thing to maybe note is that we have removed the nut and stop for the steering cable but it appears to be STUCK also. I know it's not threaded but am I missing something?

 

[Dr Honda]

Keep tension on it... and use a heat gun to warm the ring. You may need to do a couple heat/cooling cycles... but it will pop. I don't like to use fire in this case, since something could ignite.

I'm not following you on the cable. Can you take a pic, and point at the part?

 

[SeptemberC]

Keep tension on it... and use a heat gun to warm the ring. You may need to do a couple heat/cooling cycles... but it will pop. I don't like to use fire in this case, since something could ignite.

I'm not following you on the cable. Can you take a pic, and point at the part?

We are keeping tension on it.

 

[SeptemberC]

Heat gun cycle ONE.

 

[SeptemberC]

Cycle 2...... then I'm going to bed. I'll click my heels 3 times before getting into bed and hopefully when I awaken in the morning I will find one wear ring no longer attached to the housing. LOL

 

[Dr Honda]

ok. Now I see what part of the cable you are talking about. Yes... with that nut off... it should pull out. But, since the cable is ridged... you may want to loosen the clamp in the hull, so it can actually move back a little. (don't want to rip the rubber boot inside)

Fingers crossed on the ring. (try tapping too, since you used heat)

 

[SeptemberC]

ok. Now I see what part of the cable you are talking about. Yes... with that nut off... it should pull out. But, since the cable is ridged... you may want to loosen the clamp in the hull, so it can actually move back a little. (don't want to rip the rubber boot inside)

Fingers crossed on the ring. (try tapping too, since you used heat)

Just to make sure I understand..... The steering cable is going to stay in place, slide through the hole in the wear ring) when the wear ring comes off ... Correct?

I'm gonna say really one heat cycle has been completed. My heat gun was NOT hot enough (in my opinion) last night to really cause the wear ring to swell enough to make a difference in attempting to break up corrosion. So this morning we used our handy dandy blue propane torch to heat it up. Left tension on it (as from pictures above) and sprayed more PB Blaster on it. We will let it cool. And heat it up again.

Tapping it... Hitting it with a hammer... on the bottom and sides (since you can't hit from the top) is the suggested way to assist in breaking it free? Maybe Dry ice or something to try to get it to shrink?

 

[SeptemberC]

ok. Now I see what part of the cable you are talking about. Yes... with that nut off... it should pull out. But, since the cable is ridged... you may want to loosen the clamp in the hull, so it can actually move back a little. (don't want to rip the rubber boot inside)

Fingers crossed on the ring. (try tapping too, since you used heat)

Heated it a total of 5 times and let it cool and beat on it before & after heating it. We ran out of PB Blaster so I ran to Auto Zone and got more & a can of CRC Freeze-Off. Hooked up the wear ring removal tool we made below along with ratchet straps again and beat the crap out of it destroying 2 pieces of 2x4's. Then POP! Thank you DR HONDA!

BUT

Steering cable still doesn't want to come out!!

NOW... Assuming he gets the cable out while I came in the house to update... I now need to throughly clean the housing, prime & paint it to keep it from corroding? Is there something (chemical) that I need to put between the metal surfaces wear ring, housing, stator before reassembling?

 

[SeptemberC]

:facepalm: :willy_nilly:

I know that everyone has got to be as sick as I am at this thread! Every muscle in our bodies is aching from all of the contortions we've had our bodies in trying to get this &^%$^* wear ring off.

The steering cable is stuck in the wear ring. All nuts have been removed except for the stop nut (on the back side). I have used and continuing to use a wire brush to remove any corrosion from the edges of the steering cable housing, I have been and continuing to spray PB Blaster on the front and back side of the steering cable housing on the wear ring. I have used a tiny pick to "score" around the edges of the steering cable where it goes through the wear ring.

We just can not figure out how we are supposed to get it to come out. The new housing does not have threads where the cable housing goes through yet there are threads on the steering cable housing!!!

WHAT AM I MISSING? A steering cable cutter?!?!?!?!? LOL

Does anyone have specific suggestions on how we are to get it out? Can we heat the wear ring steering cable housing nub without damaging the steering cable or housing since there's no rubber in that area?

I'm fighting off panic. . . We are supposed to be going on a "family trip" to Stonewall Lake in WV this coming Friday and we were hoping that the new wear ring would allow us to get up on plane with everyone onboard (all 8 of us) and tow a tube. Now I'd settle for a poorly functioning jet boat to no boat

 

[Bkopsick]

I had the same problem with my salt water corroded jet drive.. I ended up replacing the steering cable because I knew it was pretty beat from the salt water and I didn't want to fight with it without damaging it. I cut it off and replaced the cable. I used the old cable to fish the new one through the hull. I'm not sure how easily accessible your steering column is but it's easy on that end if you can get to it. The through-hull bellows at the jet drive isn't bad either, assuming you can get to it easily enough. Food for thought.. I think the cable cost me around $140ish.

 

[SeptemberC]

I had the same problem with my salt water corroded jet drive.. I ended up replacing the steering cable because I knew it was pretty beat from the salt water and I didn't want to fight with it without damaging it. I cut it off and replaced the cable. I used the old cable to fish the new one through the hull. I'm not sure how easily accessible your steering column is but it's easy on that end if you can get to it. The through-hull bellows at the jet drive isn't bad either, assuming you can get to it easily enough. Food for thought.. I think the cable cost me around $140ish.

Believe me I've thought about that! My cable looks good and we've not had any issues with it. UNTIL now. . . lol
The best price I have found is $185 but I don't think it could make it here in time for us to install and our scheduled trip this upcoming Friday. If we have no luck getting things rolling and reinstallation starting tomorrow then I may just do that since I won't have a boat anyway.

The Engine compartment is fairly large in the Islandia. The helm is some what easily accessible through the pop up changing area / head. Now I've never actually looked at the area where the steering mechanism is so someone feel free to chime in if you've replaced the steering cable in an Islandia.

Worse case scenario. . . I had thought about what that procedure would be - Cut the cable just beyond the area that goes through the wear ring, pull it into the engine compartment, somehow attach the helm end of the NEW cable to the cut off end of the old cable. Disconnect the steering cable at the steering wheel and gently pull the new cable (attached to the old cable) until it's all the way through. That sounds easy in my head but I KNOW it couldn't be that simple. There's got to be wire ties that are UNACCESSABLE that neatly hold cables, cords and wires together that make it impossible!

We are keeping our fingers crossed that the weather will be good enough that we can heat up that spot in the wear ring enough to get the cable out without destroying something.

I know we still have a lot of work ahead of us getting the stator (mating side) cleaned up, primed and painted (I think) and the housing for the wear ring cleaned up, primed and painted (I think). I'm waiting for Dr. Honda to tell me what I need to put between those metal pieces before reassembly. AND for his expert advice on how to get that darn steering cable loose from its housing!!!

Since Mercury Special Lubricant 101 has been discontinued, it was recommended to me to use the Mercury 2-4-C where the instructions from OutLawEagle states to use the 101. There is no mention of putting any "grease" between the pump housing and the wear ring but it does state to put the Special Lube 101 (which was discontinued and replaced by the 2-4-C) between the mating surfaces of the wear ring and stator... hummmm.

Thank you for taking the time to read and reply. This is such a great forum. I can only hope that my crazy adventures and attempts to "Do it myself" along with my questions, pictures and great answers from other members can help others someday.

Hoping Dr Honda replies to me over his morning coffee. I'm gonna have to buy the man a Keurig and a case of coffee! :cheers:

 

[SeptemberC]

On the ride plate.. did you hold the nuts on the back side?

Maybe I'll try Fastenal to see if they have a stronger Philips that will work. I'm wondering if the extended ride plate has anything to do with the screws being harder to get out. I'll give Aquaman1 a shout and see if he's heard any complaints. Other than the slight drag, why couldn't we use bolts? Do you think the extended ride plate could possibly be hurting my performance any at all? We had it adjusted all the way up.

What would be best to put on these threads? all of the threads? Permatex Anti-Seize Lubricant, or Bostic Never Seez Mariners Choice Anti-Seize . . .

I know I've given you lots to reply to this morning from my several threads above. . . . :grouphug:

 

[Gotrain44]

I just recently did the same thing other than replace the steering cable. I too had a heck of a time getting the bolts out and my boat is in fresh water. I had to get replacement screws for the ride plate from Fastenal special order only cost me $3. I tried Home Depot, Lowes, Canadian Tire, and Home Hardware. I used anti-seize when I put them back in. The replacements were Alan Key socket heads.

 

[SeptemberC]

I just recently did the same thing other than replace the steering cable. I too had a heck of a time getting the bolts out and my boat is in fresh water. I had to get replacement screws for the ride plate from Fastenal special order only cost me $3. I tried Home Depot, Lowes, Canadian Tire, and Home Hardware. I used anti-seize when I put them back in. The replacements were Alan Key socket heads.

Thanks Gotrain. Maybe we'll give that a try. Just something that's less easier to strip the head when trying to get them out.

So you replaced your wear ring? How did you successfully remove the steering cable?

 

[Gotrain44]

I repaired the wear ring using JB weld. From my research to replace only the wear ring is doable but very difficult. The wear ring has to be cut out and a replacement inserted. It's a shame that mercury only sell the wear ring housing as a kit at around $600. Maybe I was lucky after several hits with a rubber mallet and some elbow grease the housing came off and the steering cable slid through the hole. Something to be said for fresh water. Do you have the mercury manual for your engine?

 

[SeptemberC]

I repaired the wear ring using JB weld. From my research to replace only the wear ring is doable but very difficult. The wear ring has to be cut out and a replacement inserted. It's a shame that mercury only sell the wear ring housing as a kit at around $600. Maybe I was lucky after several hits with a rubber mallet and some elbow grease the housing came off and the steering cable slid through the hole. Something to be said for fresh water. Do you have the mercury manual for your engine?

Yes it's proven to be difficult! lol and frustrating but hopefully rewarding. I purchased a rebuilt wear ring with the stainless steel insert. It's in my freezer waiting to be installed if we can ever get the steering cable out of the old wear ring.

I had a Challenger 1800 prior to having the Islandia. The Shop Manual for both is in it and yes I have it. I also just found (online) the manual for the M2 pump! BONUS!! Although it offers no assistance with the steering cable.
The instructions just say "remove steering cable". ROFLMAO I wish it would be that simple.

I'm trying not to waste time as I wait for PB Blaster and time to work its magic on the corrosion. I've been using degreaser and a small scrub brush to clean the pump housing (and will rinse it well) in preparation for the installation of the new wear ring.

The rain has run me inside at the moment but as soon as it lets up I'll be back out there.