96 XP hitting what sounds like rev limiter between 4-5k rpm when cold

[96spxpos]

ahh, ok great.. thanks for the clarification.

[MENTION=80856]tingraham[/MENTION] , I know you clipped the wires, etc.. but I was wondering, do your new plugs have the "screw on" tips, or are they the SOLID tips? This can make a difference, especially at high speeds because if you're using the screw on tips, unless you permanently affix them to the threads, they can come loose, vibrate, create loss of power, etc. see pic

The one on the left is the SOLID tip, the one on the right is the threaded one

 

[mikidymac]

The solid tips are still a BR8ES but they actually have a different part number. I will get it when I get home. I had O'Rilley auto order me a box of 10 for less than $2.50 each.

 

[1983]

Tell the auto parts store NGK "3961" designation for the solid tip BR8ES plugs.

 

[mikidymac]

Tell the auto parts store NGK "3961" designation for the solid tip BR8ES plugs.

Nice, one less thing to do when I get home home. :thumbsup:

 

[tingraham]

Hey guys. Yeah I removed the O-ring that clearly didn't belong. I should have taken a picture of how it was in there just to show how bazaar it was. It was a second o-ring in a strange place that wouldn't have been sealing anything (besides the fuel from flowing where it needed to) so I'm not sure what someone was doing with it but I believe that's why the person put massive jets in and a 2.0 needle and seat because it just wasn't getting enough fuel due to this o-ring. If you look up into where the bowl screws on you can see the holes where the fuel passes through, the o-ring was essentially covering the hole that exits the bowl and goes to the carbs. And yes, I have solid tips. Like Matt said, I'm pretty sure it's solved now but hopefully I will verify that this evening. Thanks for the tips! (pun intended)

 

[tingraham]

Annnnnd it is just as bad as ever still. I don't know why I buy problem skis, I guess I am a glutton for punishment. I recorded any audio clip of how it sounds to see if anyone has heard anything like that, gotta figure out how to post it here though.

I am pretty positive it is not related to any carb settings at this point as a whole lot of stuff was not right on these carbs and it basically ran just that same as it does now that it is all in order. I am sure it is just one little thing not right at this point.

Does anyone know what happens if the rotary valve is a few degrees off? Thinking about popping the cover off and checking the timing.

 

[tingraham]

I have struck gold...

I almost guarantee this is my issue that fixed it for this guy in his final post:

http://www.seadooforum.com/showthre...tation-from-5000-5200&highlight=slotted+raves

In it he links to the fix on PWCToday. I can't wait to get home and see if I have the old style RAVE housings! If so, I have an extra set from a 97 XP that should work perfect (as well as slotted blades)!

 

[1983]

Take a picture of the red wire you disconnected.

In your first post you stated you disconnected a red wire at the "regulator"

I just want to make sure you disconnected the right one for the rectifier failure test. Also I have had ones that pass the voltage while running test but are still bad rectifiers causing this 4-5k hesitation, rev limiter type condition while riding.

 

[tingraham]

I'm not a noob when it comes to working on these, don't worry. I disconnected the only red wire that comes out of the regulator/rectifier. Like I said in my previous post though, I am willing to put money down that my issue is the RAVE housings as all the stories around those articles are identical to my issue.

 

[1983]

Ok, I didn't know your experience with seadoos. Wanted to confirm it was the correct wire, cause what your explaining sounds like rectifier and there are multiple red wires on ski that could have been unplugged. Without video or sounds its hard to diag.

Swap the housings if you have extra updated ones, but if its not rectifier and rave housings dont fix it I would be back at fuel related as cause of issue.

Can you upload video to youtube? Its easiest on a computer but can be done on phone if your on wifi.


Rob

I'm not a noob when it comes to working on these, don't worry. I disconnected the only red wire that comes out of the regulator/rectifier. Like I said in my previous post though, I am willing to put money down that my issue is the RAVE housings as all the stories around those articles are identical to my issue.

 

[tingraham]

I will try and upload the audio clip once I get home. Youtube won't allow just audio so I have turn it into a video with an image. The software to do that is on my computer at home.

Just having one SeaDoo you are basically forced into having experience lol. I have had my fair share of annoying hard to track down issues in the 6 787s skis and boats I have owned in the past couple years.

I picked up this XP for $300 and have about $300 into it so I am on schedule to be ahead of the game if I can get this sorted out with minimal cost. Then I have to decide if I keep all three of the jetskis (2 97 XPs) or I get rid of one. It's a hard call if you are only out $600 by keeping all three. The 97s ride so buttery smooth and just cruise. The 96 is a friggin blast but not exactly a cruiser as we all know.

thanks!

 

[tingraham]

Alright, the fight continues. New Raves didn't really change anything, glad I didn't actually bet money on it. I think I have the carbs adjusted nicely at this point as there is no bog or hesitation at any point, just this really annoying thing happening. I popped the seat off and drove it for a minute and noticed the manifold to expansion chamber gasket was leaking slightly. I thought to myself well maybe it is leaking internally too, so I changed it and it didn't really change anything. It is very strange how it almost comes and goes. The most recent time I tested it, it was really good right off the bat and had some points where I fully accelerated without noticing and blips but then it seemed to get worse as the ride went on.

I have uploaded it to youtube now so you can take a listen. You will notice it doing it right away and around 40ish seconds in I bounce off my own wake and cavitate it a little and it allows it to get over the hump it's stuck on and revs right out.

https://youtu.be/gkLKi9_T_bA

 

[tingraham]

Anyone have any fresh ideas after listening to the sound clip? My next attempt is going to be to pull the carbs from one of my 97s and throw them on to rule out a carb issue.

 

[manolocross]

After listening to clip I'm more baffled.... It sounds like carbs but also electrical. The throttle sounds instant like full on full off no in between. Did you check condition of stater????

 

[tingraham]

yeah it pretty much goes balls to the wall when it goes. I haven't attempted to pull the mag cover. Haven't checked the resistance readings yet either.

 

[Matt Braley]

I would clip the plug wires back on either end again. Twist the boots on to the wires with a little dielectric grease in there and turn them until the boots stop spinning all together on the wire. Make sure those wires are pressed as far as possible down into the coil. I know we have covered this stuff but it sounds like that to me. Yo are using resistor plugs right? BR8ES only

If it's not that then it has to be a build up of metal flakes on the pickup in the mag cover. It's a magnet so all the little shavings of metal that the starter/flywheel contact collects there over time and it will throw the signal off.

The bracket that holds the pickup has been known to tear and break off. It's possible yours has cracked but not broken off yet.

Taking the mag cover off with the motor in does not have to be that bad of a job. If you have a new exhaust manifold to pipe gasket you can remove that exhaust section and gain a lot better access. I use a 13mm socket with a universal in it to get the front mount out and then i put a little piece of a 2X4 under the engine to support it while I'm working in there without the front mount's support.

 

[tingraham]

Alright, I guess I will forego swapping carbs for now as it sounds like the prognosis right now is electrical and I concur. I just ran some tests on the coil and it appears good. I'm thinking all the static tests will come back fine on everything as it starts and runs fine. I will pull the mag cover next and take a look at the trigger.

Yes, I am using BR8ES plugs.

 

[Matt Braley]

Not the same plugs of course, right? Yeah It really sounds electrical to me.

 

[tingraham]

Yeah I have put in about 3 sets at this point if that's what you are asking. The other oddity is that it seems load related. At one point it made 2-3 good pulls from idling to full throttle with no blips but when I would turn and punch it it wouldn't like that additional load and start doing it's thing until I straightened out.

 

[tingraham]

Ever wonder what 10+ degrees off on the rotary valve does? Hopefully what I am experiencing...


Figured I would check it for the heck of it, glad I did. Unfortunately the rotary valve cover o-ring is all stretched so I can't put it back together yet but I am crossing my fingers on this one. Oh yeah, this looks a little better:

 

[Eddie84]

Annnnnd it is just as bad as ever still. I don't know why I buy problem skis, I guess I am a glutton for punishment. I recorded any audio clip of how it sounds to see if anyone has heard anything like that, gotta figure out how to post it here though.

I am pretty positive it is not related to any carb settings at this point as a whole lot of stuff was not right on these carbs and it basically ran just that same as it does now that it is all in order. I am sure it is just one little thing not right at this point.

Does anyone know what happens if the rotary valve is a few degrees off? Thinking about popping the cover off and checking the timing.

So I recently purchased a 96 xp and am having the same exact issue, but at a lower RPM but it’s sparatic.I notice that it’s definitly an electrical issue as I play with the vts button it runs perfect until the vts motor stops then it’s right back to what seems like a rev limiter issue. I met a guy at the lake who builds race skis and he rode my ski and told me to replace the stator and rectifier but said to not get an aftermarket replacement as he has had issues with aftermarket electrical components. I ordered one and am waiting to see what happens. I know this is an old thread but we’re you able to find out what was causing the issue?

 

[Matt Braley]

So I recently purchased a 96 xp and am having the same exact issue, but at a lower RPM but it’s sparatic.I notice that it’s definitly an electrical issue as I play with the vts button it runs perfect until the vts motor stops then it’s right back to what seems like a rev limiter issue. I met a guy at the lake who builds race skis and he rode my ski and told me to replace the stator and rectifier but said to not get an aftermarket replacement as he has had issues with aftermarket electrical components. I ordered one and am waiting to see what happens. I know this is an old thread but we’re you able to find out what was causing the issue?

I think your issue is as simple as plugging this part in Sea Doo Regulator Rectifier 787 800 XP 95-96 GTX 96-97 SPX 97-99 GSX 1996 | eBay

Sorry you have ordered that other stuff.

 

[Eddie84]

Hey Matt, thank you for the response I got the rectifier and will install today, I’ll touch base once I get it in the water. I also found that one of the ravevalves was missing a spring, I will also install it today after cleaning.

Thanks again

 

[tingraham]

We have success!!!!! It always drives me nuts when people don’t close out a post with the solution so I wanted to be sure I did.

I pulled the motor and tore the top end down to check it out for the heck of it. In doing so I went ahead and deglazed/honed the cylinders as the piston and cylinder walls still looked pretty decent still. I got a top end gasket kit and replaced all the gaskets in reassembly. It appeared that the motor had never been apart before, at least the top end. After assembling it and reinstalling in the ski, the problem is completely gone!

My theory is that either the cylinder base gasket or one of the o-rings at the top of the cylinder was allowing water to slip by at a certain water pressure/rpm and into the combustion chamber thus making it run like trash at a particular rpm.

Now, if you are reading this in the future and your ski is having a similar issue, this is how I should have tested it- put the ski in the water and confirm it is still having the issue. Clamp off the water supply line to the engine and run one quick pull with it to see if it goes away or at least changes behavior. That would have immediately pointed me in the direction of ripping the engine apart sooner.