96 Sea-Doo Challenger 5896

[mejim707]

Hi, I just joined. I purchased a 96 Sea-Doo Challenger 5896 with the 787 Rotax engine a week and a half ago. Going into the purchase I knew I'd have work to do. I'm very good mechanically so this is not an issue plus I have a great garage to work on it!

So far I've done the following;
Mechanically:
Trim Cable.
Shift / Reverse Cable.
Welded exhaust pipe "plug". The previous owner used JB weld. I prefer to do things right.
Replaced Starter.

Non Mechanical:
Replaced Cup holders.
Fixed Gas Gage.
Replaced controls cap cover.
Replaced hydraulic engine bay cover support.
Fixed scupper (not mounted properly).

Other than the above the boat is clean. I took it out at the dock for a quick smoke test to work out any bugs. I found the starter needed to be replaced and the scupper was allowing water in, but not enough to become a problem. As mentioned above I replaced the starter and I fixed the Scupper. The engine seemed to run great for about 15 minutes while I safely trolled around the dock area (out of the way) testing functionality. I then docked and allowed a little time to pass checking water seals.

A few questions after reading a number of threads on this site.
1. I've read about the 2 cycle oil delivery system. I don't want to convert to premix or remove the oil pump from the magneto to test it (unless absolutely necessary). Is there a good proven way to test that the oil pump is properly delivering oil without pulling things apart? As mentioned, I was running for about 15 minutes without issue and forward / reverse propulsion at different RPMs seemed stellar.
2. How long would it take for the engine to overheat if the oil was not being delivered properly?
3. I've read about the rotary valve clearance. A few people have said they've checked the clearance. I have the gap tool for this but can someone provide assistance on the procedure to check the gap?

As of now everything else seems good. I just want to make sure before the next time I take the boat out I've fully verified the oil delivery and rotary valve clearance. Over the winter I may pull the engine to rebuild it and give the components a fresh coat of paint but I'd like to get through the season knowing that everything is in check.

Any other suggestions on things to check for a Sea-Doo noob I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks a lot in advance!

 

[Huntz52]

I can't answer your questions, although I was hoping you could help me with a couple of things you did to your boat. I just purchased a 97' Challenger with some issues.

-Gas gauge reads full but is almost empty. How did you fix the gauge?
- Where did you buy your cup holders?
-I have to run a new Choke cable for my right engine. what was the easiest way to run the cables to the engine bay?
-Whats a scupper?

 

[mejim707]

I can't answer your questions, although I was hoping you could help me with a couple of things you did to your boat. I just purchased a 97' Challenger with some issues.

-Gas gauge reads full but is almost empty. How did you fix the gauge?
- Where did you buy your cup holders?
-I have to run a new Choke cable for my right engine. what was the easiest way to run the cables to the engine bay?
-Whats a scupper?

Hi Huntz, sure thing!

Gas Gage: Mine had a broken face and was laying inside of the housing. I fixed the gage and replaced the face and it works properly now.

Do you see the orange oil light turn on when you attach the key? If not you may have an issue with the wiring. On mine it's hardwired and no connector that I can see. Open the compartment on top of your dash. The storage box pulls up and out. In there you'll find a cluster of wire and cables. You can feel where the cabling runs to the gage. Follow that and try to locate a wire connection in the bundle of wires. If you can find one ensure it's connected. You may also want to unplug and plug it back in. To get the gage out you'll need to pull the steering wheel and remove the plastic cover holding the gage to inspect it and the wiring in that housing. But I believe the gage failing is rare. Take note of the color of the wires. If you open your engine bay you can see the wire harness behind the driver seat. Find the wires based on their color and follow them to their respective locations. I didn't go this far but you should be able to track to the float at the tank and to the electrical box. just make sure everything is connected. Lastly, if all of this is connected, you may have an issue with one of the components of your fuel system. Here is a good read with helpful info on diagnosing the system. There's a mention of a possible blown fuse in the float circuit board.
Take a look: Fuel Baffle Sending Unit Repair !
Note: In this compartment you'll also find the fuses for your switches and some electrical accessories.

Cup holders: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B076GXR1W7
A few other handy links;
Stern Light: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001O0DIT0/
Bimini Top Pin: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07G6DCCSQ
Bimini Thumb Screw: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002IVCJ2Q
Hatch Latch: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07CCB2GSS

Running Cables or Electric: Very Easy, just remove the storage box as described in the Gas Gage section above. This will expose a bunch of cables and you should see your choke cable. You can reach in under where your switches are and feel the nut holding the cable pull in place. You could remove that nut. Now, follow the cable around the right side of the boat. You could hold the cable and sort of move it around while looking in the engine bay for the cable you're moving. Another thing you could do is remove the controls and look into the hole for the cable there. The controls are just held in by 4 screws to secure the white cover, then another 4 to hold the base plate to the boat. The controls lift up and out of the way. You'll see all the wires and cables routed through this passage. It's very easy to run the cables. I'll confirm the choke cable routes through here when I get home but it should.

Scupper: This is located at the stern of the boat under the rear deck. It looks like a clear plastic housing with a small ball in it. This allows your deck to drain while underway but should not allow water in while sitting stationary. The ball floats up and plugs the hole making a seal against a soft rubber gasket to prevent water in while sitting idle.

I hope this helps!

 

[JeremyD615]

See below for some short answers. I’ll try to get a little more in depth when I’ve got some time if one of the experts doesn’t jump in...

1. The easiest way to verify is to go ahead and replace the 3/32 tygon lines that run from the pump to the intake manifold. When you start the engine after changing them, you can visually see the oil flowing through the lines. There will be no question as to whether it works or not at that point.

2. With no lubrication, as in a pump failure, you will usually experience seizure before the engine overheats. The pumps rarely fail in these machines though. The most common problems are either the oil tank being run empty or the small tygon lines getting brittle and breaking/leaking. If you replace those lines, you should be good to go.

3. Do a search for “checking rotary valve clearance” and you should find a write up. If you can’t find one, download the manual for a 96XP and it goes over the method. You can use 45 degree feeler gauges, but most here recommend the solder method which you’ll see in the manual.

 

[Huntz52]

Hi Huntz, sure thing!

Gas Gage: Mine had a broken face and was laying inside of the housing. I fixed the gage and replaced the face and it works properly now.

Do you see the orange oil light turn on when you attach the key? If not you may have an issue with the wiring. On mine it's hardwired and no connector that I can see. Open the compartment on top of your dash. The storage box pulls up and out. In there you'll find a cluster of wire and cables. You can feel where the cabling runs to the gage. Follow that and try to locate a wire connection in the bundle of wires. If you can find one ensure it's connected. You may also want to unplug and plug it back in. To get the gage out you'll need to pull the steering wheel and remove the plastic cover holding the gage to inspect it and the wiring in that housing. But I believe the gage failing is rare. Take note of the color of the wires. If you open your engine bay you can see the wire harness behind the driver seat. Find the wires based on their color and follow them to their respective locations. I didn't go this far but you should be able to track to the float at the tank and to the electrical box. just make sure everything is connected. Lastly, if all of this is connected, you may have an issue with one of the components of your fuel system. Here is a good read with helpful info on diagnosing the system. There's a mention of a possible blown fuse in the float circuit board.
Take a look:
Note: In this compartment you'll also find the fuses for your switches and some electrical accessories.



Running Cables or Electric: Very Easy, just remove the storage box as described in the Gas Gage section above. This will expose a bunch of cables and you should see your choke cable. You can reach in under where your switches are and feel the nut holding the cable pull in place. You could remove that nut. Now, follow the cable around the right side of the boat. You could hold the cable and sort of move it around while looking in the engine bay for the cable you're moving. Another thing you could do is remove the controls and look into the hole for the cable there. The controls are just held in by 4 screws to secure the white cover, then another 4 to hold the base plate to the boat. The controls lift up and out of the way. You'll see all the wires and cables routed through this passage. It's very easy to run the cables. I'll confirm the choke cable routes through here when I get home but it should.

Scupper: This is located at the stern of the boat under the rear deck. It looks like a clear plastic housing with a small ball in it. This allows your deck to drain while underway but should not allow water in while sitting stationary. The ball floats up and plugs the hole making a seal against a soft rubber gasket to prevent water in while sitting idle.

I hope this helps!

Mejim, thank you for taking the time to write all this out!! And thank you for the links.

 

[mejim707]

See below for some short answers. I’ll try to get a little more in depth when I’ve got some time if one of the experts doesn’t jump in...

1. The easiest way to verify is to go ahead and replace the 3/32 tygon lines that run from the pump to the intake manifold. When you start the engine after changing them, you can visually see the oil flowing through the lines. There will be no question as to whether it works or not at that point.

2. With no lubrication, as in a pump failure, you will usually experience seizure before the engine overheats. The pumps rarely fail in these machines though. The most common problems are either the oil tank being run empty or the small tygon lines getting brittle and breaking/leaking. If you replace those lines, you should be good to go.

3. Do a search for “checking rotary valve clearance” and you should find a write up. If you can’t find one, download the manual for a 96XP and it goes over the method. You can use 45 degree feeler gauges, but most here recommend the solder method which you’ll see in the manual.

Thanks for the reply Jeremy! I can replace these two small lines. But, when I do they will not have oil in them when I first start the engine. Could this cause an issue or does the oil pump through the lines quick enough it's not a problem? If the oil is pumping right now, I fear to do anything that could suddenly introduce uneeded wear or overheating. Can you offer a little clarification?

Also, I have been searching around a lot for "96 Sea-doo challenger check rotary valve clearance" and "sea-doo 787 rotary valve clearance" but I'm not finding anything that really provides a procedure on this. Can you share a link to a resource you've found? I'll keep searching as well but so far no luck.

Thanks

 

[JeremyD615]

You can add a little premix to the cylinders, but the crankcase will have plenty of residual oil in it to provide lubrication during the first start. You’re going to start it and let the boat idle while you reach in and move the oil pump arm to the wide open position with your hand. It should only take 30 seconds or so to fill those lines up with oil.

I’ll see what I can dig up for the rotary valve clearance procedure and post a link.

 

[JeremyD615]

Checking Rotary Valve Cover Clearance

Try this thread.

 

[mejim707]

You can add a little premix to the cylinders, but the crankcase will have plenty of residual oil in it to provide lubrication during the first start. You’re going to start it and let the boat idle while you reach in and move the oil pump arm to the wide open position with your hand. It should only take 30 seconds or so to fill those lines up with oil.

I’ll see what I can dig up for the rotary valve clearance procedure and post a link.

Thanks a lot Jeremy. Yeah I'm still searching all over for a procedure but all I'm finding is information about how people are trying a solder method vs. using a gapping tool but no steps or pictures or really anything about the process to even check. I've read that people are removing a cover, others are removing an O-Ring and so on. From what I have gatherred, you need to do the following, but this is only a guess at this point;

Using these parts diagrams;
RV: 1996 Sea-Doo Challenger, 5896 Crankcase And Rotary Valve | Fox Powersports Sea-Doo Partshouse
Intake: 1996 Sea-Doo Challenger, 5896 Air Intake | Fox Powersports Sea-Doo Partshouse

1. Remove the Fire Arrester / Intake
2. Remove Rotary Valve Cover: RV Part 27
3. Remove O-Ring: RV Part 26
4. Measure the gap between the case and the rotary valve using a spark plug gap tool.
The gap on a 787 should be .30mm +-.05mm.

Once complete, reinstall all parts replacing RV Part 23 (2x) and adding Loctite 515 (or equivalent) to intake gaskets.

I'm very good mechanically so this is not a big deal, I just don't want to dive in here without being educated since I'm still new to these Rotax engines. Give me a car and I have no problem diving in. But these Rotax engines are a bit different.

When you say "You can add a little premix to the cylinders", do you mean by way of pulling the plugs and pouring a little 2 cycle oil into the openings?

 

[mejim707]

Checking Rotary Valve Cover Clearance

Try this thread.

Ok, I'll check this now!

 

[JeremyD615]

Yes, you can just pull the plugs and pour just a bit into each cylinder. It’s really not necessary, as there is plenty of oil trapped in the crankcase to get you through the initial startup. The pump flows almost no oil at idle anyway, so you’re not going to hurt anything, but you can add a little oil or premix if it makes you feel a bit better.

These motors are high strung for sure, but they’re far more resilient than people give them credit for. Just use the correct OEM parts and a good synthetic API-TC rated oil and let her rip...

 

[mejim707]

Yes, you can just pull the plugs and pour just a bit into each cylinder. It’s really not necessary, as there is plenty of oil trapped in the crankcase to get you through the initial startup. The pump flows almost no oil at idle anyway, so you’re not going to hurt anything, but you can add a little oil or premix if it makes you feel a bit better.

These motors are high strung for sure, but they’re far more resilient than people give them credit for. Just use the correct OEM parts and a good synthetic API-TC rated oil and let her rip...

Thanks again, I've just ordered the tygon oil line to replace the two small ones there now. Can you confirm that the below looks good to replace those oil lines and the other link for the fuel lines? I want to replace all of the gray fuel lines this weekend. I'm going to replace those two oil lines tomorrow, hook it up to the hose and start it up and let it run. I'll hold the oil pump open and watch for the oil to flow up the lines. If I don't see any movement within 10 - 15 seconds I'll kill the power and inspect the pump.

Oil: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07H434HY8
Fuel: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000C34OUM

 

[JeremyD615]

Both of those look good to me. You’ll see the oil start flowing, and it will move up the lines in small pulses. That’s normal, and you just hold the pump open until the oil reaches the manifold.

 

[mejim707]

Actually, while replacing the starter tonight I realized the fuel lines down by the bottom of the engine or black. Where they hook up to the fuel pump and such they look gray, but it’s like some gray powder all over the lines. The actual line itself is black rubber. I may be in really good shape after all with the fuel lines. Im going to just clean them off. I’m going to buy a new fuel and oil filter tomorrow from a local shop. The fuel filter is discontinued so I may get a few. This place still has 23.

It’s funny, I’m buying some of these parts from local shops that have had these parts on the shelves for like 200+ months.

 

[JeremyD615]

Unless you have a crack in the fuel filter, you should be just fine with the original one. The filter elements are still available, but they are cleanable, so there’s really no need to replace it. The only thing that needs attention on the filter other than cleaning it is the O-Ring that seals the cup to the housing.

Also, don’t add any additional aftermarket fuel filters to the lines. The OEM unit works very well and also acts as a water separator. Adding an additional filter will do nothing more than restrict the flow of fuel at higher RPM’s. At least that’s my opinion...

 

[mejim707]

Unless you have a crack in the fuel filter, you should be just fine with the original one. The filter elements are still available, but they are cleanable, so there’s really no need to replace it. The only thing that needs attention on the filter other than cleaning it is the O-Ring that seals the cup to the housing.

Also, don’t add any additional aftermarket fuel filters to the lines. The OEM unit works very well and also acts as a water separator. Adding an additional filter will do nothing more than restrict the flow of fuel at higher RPM’s. At least that’s my opinion...

The filters I’m looking at are oem. I’m only purchasing oem parts for the mechanical and important stuff. Trim like cup holders and whatnot I’m not concerned with so long as it looks purdy!

I’ll only get the oil filter tomorrow then! Thanks for the head up.

Also, does anyone have any advice on the trim cable?this is a new cable but only moves a little bit. I pull the controls and I see two floating black plastic parts holding the cable. They kinda slide in this grooves mechanism. Is that normal?

 

[mejim707]

Take a look. I can’t find information on this and why it’s setup this way. Seems almost unusable.

Full open and full closed.

 

[mikidymac]

Don’t bother with the rotary clearance. If it starts and idles fine your clearance is good and shouldn’t be messed with.

 

[mikidymac]

Also you don’t need to run it on the hose to prime the oil lines, it will be fine.

Verify you have the correct API-TC full synthetic oil, if it’s blue or green it’s wrong.

What starter did you buy, if it’s not OEM it’s junk and typically the starters only need new $20 brushes.

I would also rebuild the carbs with Genuine Mikuni kits.

 

[mejim707]

Don’t bother with the rotary clearance. If it starts and idles fine your clearance is good and shouldn’t be messed with.

So no need to check clearance? Yes, I had it at the dock for an hour "smoke test" to work out any kinks and it idled and seemed to run like a champ! I felt it wanted to get out there and go, but it wasn't time.

So if it was idling and running forward and reverse propulsion at descent RPMs (all in safe manners of course) you think the clearance is ok? If so I'll leave that part alone.

This is the starter I bought. It's unfortunately a 9 tooth. But, it wasn't expensive, has "descent" reviews and works! This is not OEM. As you mentioned. I may need to change it next year or in two years. Who knows. My X5 went through three in one year. That job was a PITA X3.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00J1VW6A6

 

[mejim707]

I'm not understanding this trim mechanism. Are these black plastic parts supposed to float around in this slide in the controls mechanism or is one of them supposed to be secured / locked in place? Them floating and sliding like this makes the trim almost unusable from what I can see. I'm not too familiar with sea-doos so please pardon me being naive.

 

[JeremyD615]

I’m really not sure about the trim system on the challenger. My boat is a Speedster and doesn’t have that mechanism, and the skis use a different setup... I’m sure someone will jump in with some insight though.

 

[mikidymac]

If the rotary clearance is out the engine will be really hard to start and might not start at all in the water. Yours is fine, don't mess with it.

That starter is junk so don't expect it to last long. I would buy a $20 brush kit from ebay and rebuild your OEM starter.

 

[mejim707]

If the rotary clearance is out the engine will be really hard to start and might not start at all in the water. Yours is fine, don't mess with it.

That starter is junk so don't expect it to last long. I would buy a $20 brush kit from ebay and rebuild your OEM starter.

OK, I’ll do that. I’ll rebuild in a few weeks. Thanks for the heads up.

Do you have any insight on the trim mechanism? I posted a few pictures above I’m not sure it’s set up correctly. I got it working last night but I need to make sure he has the proper configuration. Any advice would be great.

 

[mikidymac]

Sorry, I have no experience with the boats, just the engines since they are the same as the skis.