Hi all, I just bought a 96 GTX with the 787 motor as is as a project Ski ( May have jumped in too fast considering I have never owned ski, but hey the price was right !). I have replaced the battery, confirmed it is fully charged, drained the gas that has been sitting since last July and replaced with fresh. After checking some electrical connections I get it to try and turn over briefly then it sounds like the starter motor is just spinning. I have checked for spark and I get spark when trying to turn. Any advice on where to move next? Starter? Carbs? New to these machines so any advice would be appreciated. Video attached . Thanks in advance
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96 GTX Not starting
- Thread starter Irrumater
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artr
Well-Known Member
I would do a couple of things. 1st remove the plastic shield at the back side of the engine where the drive shaft is and there is a flywheel that you can turn by hand counter clockwise. Remove the plugs and try and see if the engine is spinning freely. It really sounds like the Bendix on the starter engaged the flywheel to spin the engine then backs off. That can be caused by a weak battery, bad cables or connection. So even though you replaced the battery you should charge it a have it load tested at an auto supply store. If it is not the battery try shorting directly across the start solenoid with an insulted handle screwdriver to see if the engine cranks continously for a few seconds. If so replace the solenoid.
Fully charged the battery - Only took about 15 min so was almost there. Shows 13.1 V, tested at auto parts store as a good battery. Flywheel turns easy by hand with no plugs. Same result shorting across the solenoid.
I checked voltage when I hit start draws down to 12.7 which should be plenty. I think I will order a starter and follow that path
artr
Well-Known Member
If the starter is original OEM (same paint as engine, probably Hitachi or another quality brand). Check the brushes. They are probably worn and dirty. There is probably brush material on the commutation that should be cleaned off as well. As mentioned, brush replacement kits are available and you will be better off if that solves the problem than using an aftermarket starter. Follow the shop manual and good luck.
So appears to be the oem, same white paint as the engine. Any recommendations on a rebuild kit to choose ( Or not to choose). I see then online everywhere from $20 -$69. Is there much differance? I don't find an oem kit.
I have to go find a differant 6mm hex for that bottom front bolt. My allen key is too short and my hex socket is too big with and extension
I have to go find a differant 6mm hex for that bottom front bolt. My allen key is too short and my hex socket is too big with and extension
artr
Well-Known Member
I bought a kit for about $17.50 on ebay 5 years ago. I probably looked for OEM but I don't think there was one. I probably just made sure the kit was listed as compatible with a 96 GTX. If I remember correctly I think I only used the brushes and not the plate that holds the brushes around the commutator (just cleaned that brush holder plate up). I probably used a few of the sealing components if they fit (o-rings, fiber washers). Cleaned up the commutator probably following the shop manual and gently wiping with some rubbing alcohol on a Q-tip. The main bearing was good and I thought it was probably of higher quality than the one in the kit so I did not replace it. I greased appropriate areas, mainly the bendix that pops out to engage the flywheel. There was a lot of grease behind it that was not dried out so I cleaned off the shaft it slides on and redistributed grease to the appropriate areas. I used regular L shaped hex key with a small wrench on the end for leverage to remove the starter. The most difficulty I had was removing the C clip that holds the armature in place. A clip spreader tool probably would have made that easier than prying it off with a small screwdriver. The rebuilt starter has been good ever since.
I had it tested at autoparts store, they say tested good. I also ohm tested the negative cable while i had it out of the hull. I plan to completely remove the positive cable and check it as well.
Also there is a single black wire coming from solinoid harness that was just wrapped around the battery terminal. I plan to add a new ring terminal to make sure it is getting a good enough connection
Also there is a single black wire coming from solinoid harness that was just wrapped around the battery terminal. I plan to add a new ring terminal to make sure it is getting a good enough connection
RG123
Active Member
Make sure that when you rebuilt the starter, that you reinstalled the shaft collar that secures the bendix in the proper orientation. If you put it backwards (ask me how I know this
) it will do what you are describing, and cause the pinion to start gnawing away a bit at the flywheel teeth. I think the reason is if you put in on backwards, it does not allow the pinion to completely engage the flywheel, so it pulls itself off quickly. Also, make sure the bendix is operating correctly, and doesn't have some grease or something else causing it to catch weakly.Battery tested again this morning at Autozone. Tested good Battery I have is a YTX20HL-BS rates at 310 CCA.
I did buy a cheaper battery (Pirate Battery by Chrome) to make sure this and another ski ran before investing in good batteries, but based on testing it should be adequate, correct?
I did buy a cheaper battery (Pirate Battery by Chrome) to make sure this and another ski ran before investing in good batteries, but based on testing it should be adequate, correct?
RG123
Active Member
That looks correct to me.
Back in the machine and same symptom. Will not crank over. Remove the plugs cranks easily, can turn fly wheel by hand, but with compression of plugs in the cyclinders nothing... just a spinning starter.
To recap:
Brand new battery ( Cheap Battery until I get it running but test good at 2 different autocrats store 13 volts and 310 amps)
cleaned and tightened all battery connections ( solenoid to starter, battery to solenoid, Negative battery to starter)
Starter rebuilt with new brushes and smoothly moving Bendix, tested good again today at autocrats store.
Same symptom is shorting across the solenoid.
Where do I go from here? I read somewhere to maybe remove the jet pump and try it to see if locked up down there? Could that be or is that ruled out when it cranks without plugs?
Thanks for all the the help.
To recap:
Brand new battery ( Cheap Battery until I get it running but test good at 2 different autocrats store 13 volts and 310 amps)
cleaned and tightened all battery connections ( solenoid to starter, battery to solenoid, Negative battery to starter)
Starter rebuilt with new brushes and smoothly moving Bendix, tested good again today at autocrats store.
Same symptom is shorting across the solenoid.
Where do I go from here? I read somewhere to maybe remove the jet pump and try it to see if locked up down there? Could that be or is that ruled out when it cranks without plugs?
Thanks for all the the help.
RG123
Active Member
I was doing some thinking about my own problem with this, and remembered that I needed to clean the one-way bearing out really well to get it to engage. It took 2 cleanings and some silicone lube to get it working right. I figured, when the one way gear is slipping and doesn't resist turning when the driveshaft spins, it will climb the threaded shaft too slowly, and hit the flywheel when the starter is already spinning too fast to engage the flywheel. Here is my old thread, hope this helps. Mine is still working fine.
Also, one other thing that you might check. I seem to remember the shaft collar slid up the shaft a little farther with the C-clip installed. I had to take some material off the outer rim of the C-clip to get it to slide up all the way. If I were you, I would remove the collar, and look inside the bore to see where the C-clip is supposed to seat inside, and make reinstall it, making sure it's seated all the way.
787 starter issues
Also, one other thing that you might check. I seem to remember the shaft collar slid up the shaft a little farther with the C-clip installed. I had to take some material off the outer rim of the C-clip to get it to slide up all the way. If I were you, I would remove the collar, and look inside the bore to see where the C-clip is supposed to seat inside, and make reinstall it, making sure it's seated all the way.
787 starter issues
Sounds to me like your starter is just LIMP and doesn't have what it takes. They get like that. I buy the SBT staters now. They are about $119, half the price of OEM. In my opinion they are good quality and not the cheap starters you'll find on sale for $40 or so . Good Luck
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