96 Challenger Runs Great but won't start after sitting on water

[mejim707]

First off, it's been a few year since I've posted, and it's been a few years since I could get the boat out due to the whoas of covid and my town shutting down docks because "you'll catch covid if you use your boat" smh... Anyway, I hope you all are doing well.

I have the 96 Challenger with the single Rotax 787 engine. This boat absolutely rips! Everything works perfect and I can start it no prob on the water and rip around the lake without any issues. The engine seems to run wonderfully!

However, when I get it back to the dock, and let it sit for about 10 - 15 minutes on the water after running for a while I cannot start it. It turns over fine, and the starter engages and spins the engine fast but it won't kick. If I only let it sit for 5 - 7 minutes it will also start up without issue. This only happens if I let it sit about 15 minutes.

If I try for a while you can hear it stutter and try to kick on but it won't. Then I pull it out of water and wait maybe 15 minutes and it starts with little effort. Doesn't start instantly, but it will start after 2 or 3 attempts.

I did this today, and when I tried to start it on water you could smell gas in the engine bay. Very distinctly.

I know others have similar starting issues and I'm wondering if perhaps this could be due to the carbs flooding? I bought a new Mikuni pop off pressure tester for 100PSI that will be here Tuesday. I'm going to pull the carbs again and using this new gauge I'm going to dial the pop off to 32 PSI.

So, could this issue be due to the pop off pressure? What would cause the carbs to flood when sitting for 15 minutes after running amazing for an hour?
This engine has zero trouble running, and zero trouble starting in our out of water when it's cold. This only happens after running it for a while.

Lastly, I do have the genuine seadoo 8 tooth starter installed.

Any help would be great. Thanks in advdance!

 

[Snoeboarder12]

First off, it's been a few year since I've posted, and it's been a few years since I could get the boat out due to the whoas of covid and my town shutting down docks because "you'll catch covid if you use your boat" smh... Anyway, I hope you all are doing well.

I have the 96 Challenger with the single Rotax 787 engine. This boat absolutely rips! Everything works perfect and I can start it no prob on the water and rip around the lake without any issues. The engine seems to run wonderfully!

However, when I get it back to the dock, and let it sit for about 10 - 15 minutes on the water after running for a while I cannot start it. It turns over fine, and the starter engages and spins the engine fast but it won't kick. If I only let it sit for 5 - 7 minutes it will also start up without issue. This only happens if I let it sit about 15 minutes.

If I try for a while you can hear it stutter and try to kick on but it won't. Then I pull it out of water and wait maybe 15 minutes and it starts with little effort. Doesn't start instantly, but it will start after 2 or 3 attempts.

I did this today, and when I tried to start it on water you could smell gas in the engine bay. Very distinctly.

I know others have similar starting issues and I'm wondering if perhaps this could be due to the carbs flooding? I bought a new Mikuni pop off pressure tester for 100PSI that will be here Tuesday. I'm going to pull the carbs again and using this new gauge I'm going to dial the pop off to 32 PSI.

So, could this issue be due to the pop off pressure? What would cause the carbs to flood when sitting for 15 minutes after running amazing for an hour?
This engine has zero trouble running, and zero trouble starting in our out of water when it's cold. This only happens after running it for a while.

Lastly, I do have the genuine seadoo 8 tooth starter installed.

Any help would be great. Thanks in advdance!

You probably have a hole in the exhaust manifold

 

[mejim707]

You probably have a hole in the exhaust manifold

Really, I never would have made a connection like that to the exhaust manifold.

what part is that? The main pipe attached to the engine or one of the components after the rubber coupler?

How would I check for a leak? And that would cause this issue? I would have never thought to investigate the exhaust!

 

[mejim707]

Ok, I pulled the carbs today in anticipation for the Mikuni pop off pressure tool coming on Tuesday.

What pressure should I dial in for the bone stock rotax 787 in the 96 challenger? I'm thinking I want to lean on the high side and it seems the range is between 23 and 43 PSI. I'm thinking I'll go with 38 - 40 to make sure the needles stay seated. Does that sound right?

Also, I pulled the plugs again. The gap was .032 but I'm finding a lot of posts saying the gap should be about .020 - .024. Is this correct? I just set the gap to 0.22 today. The plugs are NGK BR8ES.

 

[wernerml]

I had a similar problem a few years ago, but I was getting water into the crank case. When I finally rebuilt the only place I could see any possibility of water getting into the crank case was where the exhaust manifold attached to the "Y" manifold from the cylinders. Water was dribbling back into the engine and it would hydro lock. Had to pull the plugs and crank the slop out of the engine. Then I could start and run.

You seem to be able to crank right after the problem. Have you tried pulling into a dock and trying to let the engine set for longer and longer periods until it won't restart? Does it restart after 30~45 seconds of shut down?

What about the temperature sensor on top of the engine head. It could be faulty. When you get into a no restart condition, pull the wire from the sensor and attach it to the engine block. (plug boot holders on manifold?). If it will then start then check with ohm meter from connection on top of sensor to brass body. I can't remember for sure if this is supposed to be zero or infinite. Zero ohms for normal operation seems more likely so that if the wire falls off the engine stops and you don't run on while it over heats.

The sensor would fit with the delay to restart symptom. Good Luck.

 

[mejim707]

I had a similar problem a few years ago, but I was getting water into the crank case. When I finally rebuilt the only place I could see any possibility of water getting into the crank case was where the exhaust manifold attached to the "Y" manifold from the cylinders. Water was dribbling back into the engine and it would hydro lock. Had to pull the plugs and crank the slop out of the engine. Then I could start and run.

You seem to be able to crank right after the problem. Have you tried pulling into a dock and trying to let the engine set for longer and longer periods until it won't restart? Does it restart after 30~45 seconds of shut down?

What about the temperature sensor on top of the engine head. It could be faulty. When you get into a no restart condition, pull the wire from the sensor and attach it to the engine block. (plug boot holders on manifold?). If it will then start then check with ohm meter from connection on top of sensor to brass body. I can't remember for sure if this is supposed to be zero or infinite. Zero ohms for normal operation seems more likely so that if the wire falls off the engine stops and you don't run on while it over heats.

The sensor would fit with the delay to restart symptom. Good Luck.

Thanks for the reply! How did you determine that you were getting water in the case? I can’t think of a way to determine that other than the hydro lock condition.

I’m not getting any hydro lock, instead it turns over fast and smooth and attempts to kick a few times but it doesn’t. If I take it out of water it’ll start no problem after about 15 minutes and I don’t have to pull the plugs. It just waits for 15 then it’s good to go. As if some pressure is pushing fuel in and it’s flooding out in the water but it dries up enough to start it out of water.

I know the 787 has or has had issues starting in the water after running for a while. That I think was related to the nine tooth verse eight tooth starter versions. Also the pop off pressure on the carbs.

As for the temperature sensor, wouldn’t that prevent the engine from even attempting to start? Or if the sensor has failed, would it allow you to turn over the engine but it would not allow it to fire? The other day when this happened I felt the engine and it was warm to the touch not hot at all. I could touch the head and exhaust with my hand with no issue.

Two things I’m doing, I re-gap the spark plugs to .020. They were at .032. Which seems way over what they’re supposed to be. I am also going to retest the pop off pressure on both carbs when I get the new tool tomorrow. It’s the genuine Mikuni pop off gauge. I’m going to set the pop off pressure to the high limit around 40 psi to make sure those needles stay seated and no gas slips by flooding out the cylinders.

Does this sound like a good approach? How would I determine if I’m getting any water into the cylinders or into the case?

 

[POPPS]

Pull the pto rav valve,,,if there is water intrusion you can see it on the rav valve.
Re: the concern about pop off,,that will not cause your possible rich starting issue,,,however,,,the needle and seat can be leaking,,,and your tester will show that…it’s also possible,,,that your RV clearance is too wide,,

 

[wernerml]

I determined that it was water by taking the plugs out and cranking the engine. To avoid a mess, I would put a grocery bag over the head and would capture what was coming out the plug holes. Could see the water drops amongst the oil and fuel.

When I rebuilt the engine last fall, I had rust in the MAG crankcase and balance shaft areas. Needle bearings in the Mag connecting rod were a mess too. There was no damage to the aluminum crankcase.

When I was breaking in the engine after the rebuild, I tied up to the dock and started and stopped the engine numerous times. Shutting down for 1min, 3min, 5min, 10min, 20min, 30min and restarting. That way I was able to prove that the same thing wasn't occurring anymore.

Two strokes are pretty sensitive to too much fuel during starting. Restarting a warm engine doesn't require any choke. Does the engine idle smoothly. A rich idle mixture will cause rough idle. This could be due to mal adjustment or problems with the carburetors.

Side Story: I spent several months running a Suzuki 500 on a Dyno, with a cylinder pressure vs cylinder volume data acquisition system. We were developing and calibrating a fuel injection system. I was always amazed at the revolution to revolution variation in combustion when the RPM and fuel flow were relatively stable. I could adjust fuel flow by 0.1% on the fly and see the change in combustion immediately. Even when the engine is idling very smooth by ear, the cycle to cycle variation is 20~30%.

Also there are several revolutions worth of fuel and air in the crank case. You can change fuel flow by 10% and it will take 3~4 revolutions before you see the change in combustion.

Anyway, getting your idle mixture and idle speed adjustments right takes a bit of back and forth. You want to be just on the rich side of max speed at idle, then slow the engine down with the throttle idle stop screw. Too rich and restarts will be an issue.

You might pull you plugs and see what condition they are in when you can't restart. If they are wet, you are too rich. Of course you will want your carburetors working correctly before you spend a bunch of time tweaking the settings.

Pop off pressure in the carburetor is all about maintaining a constant pressure to the various metering devices in the carburetor, so that the adjustments will always work the same. Some of the metering devices are just precisely drilled holes and are non adjustable so getting the pop off pressure in the correct range is important. Any fuel that passes by the needle when it "pops off" just goes back to the fuel tank, not to the engine. The needle, lever, spring, and diaphragm constitutes a pressure regulator. You want it just right and no plugs or leaks, of air or fuel, anywhere.

From what I have read here, I think the starter spur gear tooth count is more of a durability issue. I guess it would also be changing the gear ratio from the starter to the flywheel, but cranking speed isn't that important. Its all about proper fuel/air flow into the combustion chamber and a good spark.

If the temperature sensor has out right failed you may get a never start condition or never save itself condition. One or the other is probably more common but I don't know the predominate failure mode. The sensor may become out of calibration and change state at the wrong temperature, that would be more difficult to diagnose and could cause the type of thing you are seeing. This is probably near the bottom of your list of things to try other than disconnecting or shorting to ground as a quick test.

Plug gap is fairly tolerant except in fuel rich flooding situations. Today's CDI ignitions have all kinds of power and voltage to get across most any gap. A well adjusted engine can run with a pretty wide range of gap. I have seen them run when the ground electrode is missing. Not true with old inductive ignitions. Large gaps combined with turbulence in the combustion chamber can "blow out" the spark in large gaps. Just set the gap to the recommended value and don't worry about it again.

 

[mejim707]

Pull the pto rav valve,,,if there is water intrusion you can see it on the rav valve.
Re: the concern about pop off,,that will not cause your possible rich starting issue,,,however,,,the needle and seat can be leaking,,,and your tester will show that…it’s also possible,,,that your RV clearance is too wide,,

Thanks for the reply! I can check the rave valve at the PTO side. If I remove it, are there any special considerations or should it come out smooth and go back in without issue?

For the RV clearance, how do I check that? I have the carbs off so I can see the RV. Can I simply get a gap gauge, bend it to a 90 degree angle then use that to check gaps?

 

[mejim707]

I determined that it was water by taking the plugs out and cranking the engine. To avoid a mess, I would put a grocery bag over the head and would capture what was coming out the plug holes. Could see the water drops amongst the oil and fuel.

When I rebuilt the engine last fall, I had rust in the MAG crankcase and balance shaft areas. Needle bearings in the Mag connecting rod were a mess too. There was no damage to the aluminum crankcase.

When I was breaking in the engine after the rebuild, I tied up to the dock and started and stopped the engine numerous times. Shutting down for 1min, 3min, 5min, 10min, 20min, 30min and restarting. That way I was able to prove that the same thing wasn't occurring anymore.

Two strokes are pretty sensitive to too much fuel during starting. Restarting a warm engine doesn't require any choke. Does the engine idle smoothly. A rich idle mixture will cause rough idle. This could be due to mal adjustment or problems with the carburetors.

Side Story: I spent several months running a Suzuki 500 on a Dyno, with a cylinder pressure vs cylinder volume data acquisition system. We were developing and calibrating a fuel injection system. I was always amazed at the revolution to revolution variation in combustion when the RPM and fuel flow were relatively stable. I could adjust fuel flow by 0.1% on the fly and see the change in combustion immediately. Even when the engine is idling very smooth by ear, the cycle to cycle variation is 20~30%.

Also there are several revolutions worth of fuel and air in the crank case. You can change fuel flow by 10% and it will take 3~4 revolutions before you see the change in combustion.

Anyway, getting your idle mixture and idle speed adjustments right takes a bit of back and forth. You want to be just on the rich side of max speed at idle, then slow the engine down with the throttle idle stop screw. Too rich and restarts will be an issue.

You might pull you plugs and see what condition they are in when you can't restart. If they are wet, you are too rich. Of course you will want your carburetors working correctly before you spend a bunch of time tweaking the settings.

Pop off pressure in the carburetor is all about maintaining a constant pressure to the various metering devices in the carburetor, so that the adjustments will always work the same. Some of the metering devices are just precisely drilled holes and are non adjustable so getting the pop off pressure in the correct range is important. Any fuel that passes by the needle when it "pops off" just goes back to the fuel tank, not to the engine. The needle, lever, spring, and diaphragm constitutes a pressure regulator. You want it just right and no plugs or leaks, of air or fuel, anywhere.

From what I have read here, I think the starter spur gear tooth count is more of a durability issue. I guess it would also be changing the gear ratio from the starter to the flywheel, but cranking speed isn't that important. Its all about proper fuel/air flow into the combustion chamber and a good spark.

If the temperature sensor has out right failed you may get a never start condition or never save itself condition. One or the other is probably more common but I don't know the predominate failure mode. The sensor may become out of calibration and change state at the wrong temperature, that would be more difficult to diagnose and could cause the type of thing you are seeing. This is probably near the bottom of your list of things to try other than disconnecting or shorting to ground as a quick test.

Plug gap is fairly tolerant except in fuel rich flooding situations. Today's CDI ignitions have all kinds of power and voltage to get across most any gap. A well adjusted engine can run with a pretty wide range of gap. I have seen them run when the ground electrode is missing. Not true with old inductive ignitions. Large gaps combined with turbulence in the combustion chamber can "blow out" the spark in large gaps. Just set the gap to the recommended value and don't worry about it again.

First off thanks for the thorough reply! I appreciate that!

So I pulled the plugs and they were wet and black. It looks like they were covered in carbon but no corrosion. Just black and wet plugs so clearly they are getting soaked. I doubt it's water intrusion because water wouldn't go away after 15 minutes and allow the boat to start up without ever pulling the plugs. I really think it's getting flooded out when it's warm sitting on water.

Last time I worked with the carbs I did go through the idle setup and test on water to make sure it was idling at the correct RPM. I'll recheck this when I get it back on the lake this week.

As for pop off, the last time i checked that the gauge I used I made. I put fuel line hose together with a T fitting and a gauge attached. This all seemed ok, but the pump I was using was an old tire hand pump and I think it was inaccurate. It was very tricky to get it to the correct PSI. This Mikuni gauge comes today so I'll be able to dial it in.

That's a good comment about the temp sensor as well. I can test that sensor today to make sure it's perfect. I'll pull it, and between the connector and housing of the sensor I'mm measure resistance. Then I'll boil water and as it approaches 210 degrees I'll measure the resistance and look for 0.

Lastly, since I have the carbs off, is it easy to check the RV? I've never done that before and I also never have issue starting the boat out of water or within 10 minutes of turning it off on the water. But I may as well check the RV since the carbs are out. I just don't know how.

 

[mejim707]

I set both carbs to 35 MAG - 37 PTO on the first pop. Subsequent pop off was 32 MAG - 34 PTO.

I don’t know why the first pop is more than the subsequent pop offs but it is. This is also the closest I could get them.

The only springs that worked were the black springs already installed in the carbs. I had to use those black 80 gram springs and bend the lever to get to the correct PSI.

Incidentally the first test I did on the MAG carb showed a lot of bubbles and leaking at 15 PSI. With a pop at 20 PSI. It was not right.

Now I get a strong pop at the above PSI levels and zero bubbling. The needles seat strong with about a 4-5 PSI drop after the pop.

The carbs also both hold 16 PSI with no leaking or drop for hours.

I also tested the temp sensor and it closes circuit at 190 degrees and after a few seconds when I remove it from heat the circuit opens. So that seems to be working.

 

[mejim707]

Welp, I checked the service manual and I bent the wrong part of the arm. I bent down the part over the needle but apparently you need to bend the part over the spring only making sure the part of the lever over the needle is alway level with the body.

This is a little odd, because if the arm over the needle is level, it’s not directly contacting the top of the needle itself. It only makes direct contact with the top if I bend it slightly down and it’s not level with the rest of the carb face.

Does this seem right? Sorry for all the comments.

I’m going to redo it tonight bending the other side to see what my results are. I don’t won’t to have to do this again for a while.

 

[mejim707]

I revisited the pop off. I have the first pop at 38 on both and all subsequent at 35 on both. They’re almost identical now.

When looking at the service manual it says the range for my boat is 27-39 PSI. So the first pop is real close to that but all subsequent are a little over midway on the range.

I needed to beat the spring side of the lever arm down a touch on the MAG and up a touch on the PTO to achieve this. I added images to show how much I needed to bend them. To me this seems like almost nothing. The service manual shows a huge bend!

Service manual. Notice the massive bend they display.

MAG - Slight bend down on the spring side


PTO - Slight bend up on the spring side


Does this all look right? I really down to want to do this again this year lol

Thank you!

 

[DarrenR]

Hey,
I was just wondering if you by chance have an aftermarket fuel filter or if you have one more similar to the OEM style fuel filter? I have a 97 challenger 18 and have similar difficulty restarting the boat. Mine has 2 x 787 engines. I thought mine wasn't getting gas and possibly because the weak fuel pump wasn't sufficient for the paper style aftermarket filter I have on. (I just recently ordered some OEM style filters). You mentioned your plugs were wet, did they seam more oily or more wet with gas? Is your oil injection still connected or did you delete?

 

[mejim707]

Hey,
I was just wondering if you by chance have an aftermarket fuel filter or if you have one more similar to the OEM style fuel filter? I have a 97 challenger 18 and have similar difficulty restarting the boat. Mine has 2 x 787 engines. I thought mine wasn't getting gas and possibly because the weak fuel pump wasn't sufficient for the paper style aftermarket filter I have on. (I just recently ordered some OEM style filters). You mentioned your plugs were wet, did they seam more oily or more wet with gas? Is your oil injection still connected or did you delete?

I didn’t delete the oil system. And I confirmed that the oil pump does in fact pump oil and it is aligned with the proper alignment marks on the pump itself with the throttle closed. I went over those adjustments a number of times to make sure it was dead on. And from what I understand anytime you adjust the idle you need to go and revisit the oil pump adjustment. Just make sure that the lines are aligned.

Yesterday when I removed the spark plugs they were soaked and black. It was clear it was flooded with fuel. I am thinking that even though I had the high speed jets closed, on the 787‘s for that year set to zero turns, maybe they were not closed tight enough. I revisited that last night opened them up and then re-closed them and made sure they were snug not to allow any fuel to pass the high speed jets. I also re-checked the low speed and make sure they were dead on only one turn out.

After doing that, today on the lake the plugs were absolutely perfect no wetness and a perfect mid to dark brown color. Right where you want it. I was very happy to see that.

Unfortunately I still have to take about 3 to 5 minutes to start it (off and on so as not to kill the starter) holding the throttle wide-open and then it finally fires up. It’s just a little sketchy if I want to take the boat out to a far away dock I don’t want to get stranded. I really need to get that sorted out.

If you have any suggestions let me know and if I come up with anything I will definitely let you know!

 

[DarrenR]

I know you have seen different things with the plugs but my thoughts are that if your looking at the plugs and they're completely dry after a couple of minutes of trying to start, you're not getting fuel (which is what i believe my problem is). When you said the plugs were wet and black, was there too much oil? The highest ratio of oil use should only be like 40:1 so it should look almost like pure gas and not black or oily. If not the filter, maybe the fuel pump? One more thing, I read something where a guy said if he pushed the throttle all the way forward then back 2 times before trying to start that it helped. I do it if I remember and think it may help but I still often have problems.
Keep us posted.

 

[mejim707]

I know you have seen different things with the plugs but my thoughts are that if your looking at the plugs and they're completely dry after a couple of minutes of trying to start, you're not getting fuel (which is what i believe my problem is). When you said the plugs were wet and black, was there too much oil? The highest ratio of oil use should only be like 40:1 so it should look almost like pure gas and not black or oily. If not the filter, maybe the fuel pump? One more thing, I read something where a guy said if he pushed the throttle all the way forward then back 2 times before trying to start that it helped. I do it if I remember and think it may help but I still often have problems.
Keep us posted.

So the plugs were black and soaked, but didn't seem oily. It smelled like pure fuel but I'm sure there was oil in there.

So today, I definitely was not seeing that condition when I pulled the plugs. Maybe that is in fact what's happening that I'm not getting enough fuel, if at all after sitting warm. I'm not really sure now thinking about it.

I increased both the PTO and MAG carbs 1/16th turn on the low jet since my idle was about 1400 today and it should be 1500. So that right there means it's technically not getting enough fuel since the idle screw is in the factory setting of 2 full turns out. I'll tweak the low speed jet, idle and oil pump (to align it after changing the idle per the service manual).

I will be back out there in the morning. I'm going to run around about 30 minutes then head back to the dock. When I get there I'm first going to kill the fuel then kill the engine. I'll pull the plugs and check the condition. I'll do a compression test hot and then let it sit for 15. I'll then do as you say and pump the throttle two fill times and see if it starts!

I'll let you know what all transpires. Thanks again for the help!

 

[mejim707]

I know you have seen different things with the plugs but my thoughts are that if your looking at the plugs and they're completely dry after a couple of minutes of trying to start, you're not getting fuel (which is what i believe my problem is). When you said the plugs were wet and black, was there too much oil? The highest ratio of oil use should only be like 40:1 so it should look almost like pure gas and not black or oily. If not the filter, maybe the fuel pump? One more thing, I read something where a guy said if he pushed the throttle all the way forward then back 2 times before trying to start that it helped. I do it if I remember and think it may help but I still often have problems.
Keep us posted.

Took it out this morning, and it ran great until I stopped it for 15 minutes to adjust the low speed jets. I sat there for about an hour trying to get it started and it would not start. I’m noticing bubbles in the return lines repeatedly. There’s constantly air in those return lines. That is definitely a problem.

Also after trying for a while I’m not seeing the plugs getting fouled. I think I’m not getting any fuel after it’s hot. And the carbs were rebuilt with genuine Mikuni parts

 

[mejim707]

I'm investigating the fuel system. I need to confirm how the hoses from the sending unit are supposed to be installed but the service manual doesn't show exactly on what nipples the hoses are supposed to connect to.

I'm looking for the hoses from the return to the sending unit, and from the sending unit two hoses go to the shut off valve.

The shut off valve has "on" "out" and "res". I want to be certain these are connected properly because I'm seemingly not getting proper fuel and I'm consistently getting air in the return. From what I understand, I should not be seeing any air in the return. But I'm always seeing bubbles.

I need to figure out why. That can't be appropriate.

 

[wernerml]

If you look from the bottom of the fuel sender you will see that two fittings lead to very short passages to the tank. One goes 90% of the way down and the last goes to the bottom of the sender module.

The two short ones are returns. The longest one is reserve. The 90% one is normal or ON.

 

[mejim707]

If you look from the bottom of the fuel sender you will see that two fittings lead to very short passages to the tank. One goes 90% of the way down and the last goes to the bottom of the sender module.

The two short ones are returns. The longest one is reserve. The 90% one is normal or ON.

Thanks for the feedback. I did pull the sender baffle from the tank. And it's clean as a whistle. The "On" is appropriately connected to the shorter of the two long tubes, and the "Res" is connected to the long tube. The returns are then connected to the two additional nipples. So I think that is configured properly.

The filter / strainer is OEM and brand new and clean as well. All fuel lines are brand new continental reinforced 50PSI 1/4. The only thing that is not new is the selector. Even though that works properly, form what I can tell, I still think I'll replace it to be confident all of the fuel system is 100%.

The carbs were also rebuild with brand new genuine Mikuni rebuild kits and I replaced both needles and seats with brand new 1.5 Mikuni units. Pop-off set to 35PSI on both MAG and PTO and both held 15PSI pressure overnight with 0 PSI loss. I was not messing around with any anomalies in the fuel system lol

 

[wernerml]

Here you go. I hope you can get the jist of this. I couldn't stand on my head to see the camera screen while taking the photos.

 

[mejim707]

Here you go. I hope you can get the jist of this. I couldn't stand on my head to see the camera screen while taking the photos.

This is awesome! Thank you!

Right away I see the high loop from your inlet has a shorter length hose. And the flush hose is setup different as well. I'm going to reroute mine to match your photos. I bet there is still too much length, and the down slope in my high loop is way too long. This is probably why the siphon can start again. I shut it off, and there's enough water in the long hose to drain down from gravity and start the siphon some times.

 

[mejim707]

Here you go. I hope you can get the jist of this. I couldn't stand on my head to see the camera screen while taking the photos.

Off subject, but I also noticed your raves are adjusted flush with the cap. Did you do that for preference or is that how you got it?

 

[Spider4real]

As per service bulletin 96-15, it is supposed to be flush