what wire goes on the top side of the starter soleniod, i know how the battery pos. cable ataches and the cable that goes to the starter i need to know what wires go to the 2 top little terminals, the wiring diagram isnt very descriptive, i know there is a yellow/red, a black/white, and a solid balck wire, also does anyone have pictures of there electrical boxes so i can compare mine too
93' XP Starter Soleniod
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I checked the Seadoo Manual availiable here on line, 93 XP Model # 5852, on page 144 the diagram shows that at the top 2 post have 4 red(+) wires. Post to the left goes to starter(+). Post on right 3 wires Red(+) also VTS control Module,1 goes to rectifier, and 1 Red(+) goes to Battery(+).
On the lower part of the solenoid terminal 2 wires on the left is black/White(-)1 goes to speed limiter and electronic control in the mpem box and the other one goes to starter switch. On the other post on right 1 yelloy red(+)that joins at a 5amp fuse that goes to the speed limiter electronic control in the mpem box.
caution do not touch the yellow/red (+) wire to the negitive termanal
For more detailed info you could join as a preminum member and down load the manual for yourself. Click on the link at the top of the page under seadoo manual for more details.
I hope this helps, keep us posted or come back if you need any more help.
Karl
On the lower part of the solenoid terminal 2 wires on the left is black/White(-)1 goes to speed limiter and electronic control in the mpem box and the other one goes to starter switch. On the other post on right 1 yelloy red(+)that joins at a 5amp fuse that goes to the speed limiter electronic control in the mpem box.
caution do not touch the yellow/red (+) wire to the negitive termanal
For more detailed info you could join as a preminum member and down load the manual for yourself. Click on the link at the top of the page under seadoo manual for more details.
I hope this helps, keep us posted or come back if you need any more help.
Karl
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Well done!
Well done Karl on the research!
Well done Karl on the research!
I would trace the wire back to the point of orgin (battery)and check for 12 volts at that point, and work to the starter. Check all points in between to narrow down the problem point. Process of elimination. Than replace or repair the faulty conponent. Also the solenoid handles the fulll 12 volts to the starter. I don't think the switch handles 12 volts...I'll do some research and get back later today... I still recommend that you become a permium member so you can download the full shop manual. It sounds like you might need it in the long run. It has diagonostic test that the forum won't allow due to the space allowed. I could be here a while re-typing all the info.
Karl
Karl
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karl i have a shop manual its a little more basic that the one you guys have, so i have acsses to the troubleshooting and wiring diagrams, tha balck wire comming from the module that goe sto the one side of the start switch is only getting 5.72 volts, if i hook the one side of the start switch to the pos terminal on the starter solenoid then it will turn over
Corrected info in post to be accurate!
From what I see the start switch gets its active ground from the tether switch Via a Black/White wire. It sends ground to the lower post on the solenoid (via Black/White wire)as I explained in my earlier post. The solenoid allows a full 12 volts to the starter from the battery when the starter button switch is applied.The solenoid is really just a switch that is triggered by the black/white (GROUND)wire from the starter button switch. If you connect the starter power lead to a positive + lead and it turns over, by-passing the black/white wire from the switch, than the solenoid is bad.
The manual shows that the switches send a ground to the solenoid to trigger the solenoid to send the full 12 volts to the starter to turn it over. Eliminate the solenoid and run direct power than the solenoid must be the bad part.
Let me know how you make out.
Karl
From what I see the start switch gets its active ground from the tether switch Via a Black/White wire. It sends ground to the lower post on the solenoid (via Black/White wire)as I explained in my earlier post. The solenoid allows a full 12 volts to the starter from the battery when the starter button switch is applied.The solenoid is really just a switch that is triggered by the black/white (GROUND)wire from the starter button switch. If you connect the starter power lead to a positive + lead and it turns over, by-passing the black/white wire from the switch, than the solenoid is bad.
The manual shows that the switches send a ground to the solenoid to trigger the solenoid to send the full 12 volts to the starter to turn it over. Eliminate the solenoid and run direct power than the solenoid must be the bad part.
Let me know how you make out.
Karl
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Starter Solenoid
For what it's worth,
The yellow/red wire should have a constant 12volts D.C.. When the start button is pushed it grounds the black/white wire(attached to the other small post on the solenoid) and activates the solenoid. The stop switch, tether switch and start switch are all wired in series. A ground wire leaves the ground post in the electrical box, goes through the three switches and ends up as the black/white wire at the solenoid. The wiring must be correct and all three switches working properly or the solenoid will not get grounded and therefore not activate.
Kinda sounds like somebody had a problem and started messing with the wiring, by-passing switches, etc. Dennis
For what it's worth,
The yellow/red wire should have a constant 12volts D.C.. When the start button is pushed it grounds the black/white wire(attached to the other small post on the solenoid) and activates the solenoid. The stop switch, tether switch and start switch are all wired in series. A ground wire leaves the ground post in the electrical box, goes through the three switches and ends up as the black/white wire at the solenoid. The wiring must be correct and all three switches working properly or the solenoid will not get grounded and therefore not activate.
Kinda sounds like somebody had a problem and started messing with the wiring, by-passing switches, etc. Dennis
solenoid?
It does sound like your solenoid may be bad. I haven't pulled it up in the manual but I'm pretty sure your suppose to have 12 vdc from that switch.
Do you get a click when you attempt to start? The wire you said is 5. something volts, have you checked the continuity on it to be sure it isn't grounded etc...
Try what Karl said. Take the lead wire from your solenoid and touch it to the wire to the starter to see if the engine rolls over. If so, then the solenoid may be bad. I'm thinking too that there may be an issue with your start switch. If your only getting 5 volts, I didn't see a low volt rely in the line.
It does sound like your solenoid may be bad. I haven't pulled it up in the manual but I'm pretty sure your suppose to have 12 vdc from that switch.
Do you get a click when you attempt to start? The wire you said is 5. something volts, have you checked the continuity on it to be sure it isn't grounded etc...
Try what Karl said. Take the lead wire from your solenoid and touch it to the wire to the starter to see if the engine rolls over. If so, then the solenoid may be bad. I'm thinking too that there may be an issue with your start switch. If your only getting 5 volts, I didn't see a low volt rely in the line.
updated review is accurate !
I went back to the manual after reading the posts in this thread and Dennis is completly correct! The starter receives it's power from the solenoid via the yellow/red wire+ and completes the circuit with the ground it receives from the stop switch(normaly closed), the tether switch (normaly open) and the starter switch(normaly open). There should be NO power from the black/white wire from the 3 switches. So again bypass the solenoid with a positive+ wire direct, while maintaining a ground- from the battery and the starter will spin over... this proves the solenoid is bad. Also check continunity from the 3 switches in the position listed and this will prove they are working.(these should all be the ground-) I hope this isn't too confusing. I also corrected my original post # 8 to be accurate.
Karl
I went back to the manual after reading the posts in this thread and Dennis is completly correct! The starter receives it's power from the solenoid via the yellow/red wire+ and completes the circuit with the ground it receives from the stop switch(normaly closed), the tether switch (normaly open) and the starter switch(normaly open). There should be NO power from the black/white wire from the 3 switches. So again bypass the solenoid with a positive+ wire direct, while maintaining a ground- from the battery and the starter will spin over... this proves the solenoid is bad. Also check continunity from the 3 switches in the position listed and this will prove they are working.(these should all be the ground-) I hope this isn't too confusing. I also corrected my original post # 8 to be accurate.
Karl
Fix?
Let us know if you get a fix. Your problem is one that many have had in the past with the older PWC's. Please post and let us know to what conclusion you've come to so that other may learn from your fix.
Thanks.....:cheers:
Let us know if you get a fix. Your problem is one that many have had in the past with the older PWC's. Please post and let us know to what conclusion you've come to so that other may learn from your fix.
Thanks.....:cheers:
UPDATE
k well im pretty sure the solenoid is bad, when i first got the ski the black/white wire that comes for the control unit was attached to the right post of the solenoid and it was super rusty so i cleaned it up and put it on the left post as the wiring diagram says, the red/yellow wire was spliced into the red wire that goes to the guages and wasnt even hooked up the solenoid, the only wire that was hooked up right was the black/white wire comming from the start switch and it was hooked up the the left post, i got it all wired correctly(look @ pics) the 2 black/white wires go to the left, and the red/yellow to the right, i think the problem is that the right post is so rusty that its not making contact inside of the solenoid, i used my multimeter and when the start switch is pushed there is no power to the left post of the solenoid and that means its grounding that out which is what its suppose to do right? and yes the red/yellow wire has around 11.72 volts all the time
another thing if i give the one wire form the start switch(black/white) 12volts dirrectly like touching the wire to the battery and the other wire from the switch being attached to the left post of the solenoid like its suppose to be it will turn over the engine, is this normal?
is there anything else i should test? also if i need a new solenoid does it have to be a seadoo brand because they arnt to cheap
i gave some pics to just make sure its all correct
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x122/87stang5-Oh/seadoo wiring/DSCF1109.jpg
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x122/87stang5-Oh/seadoo wiring/DSCF1110.jpg
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x122/87stang5-Oh/seadoo wiring/DSCF1111.jpg
k well im pretty sure the solenoid is bad, when i first got the ski the black/white wire that comes for the control unit was attached to the right post of the solenoid and it was super rusty so i cleaned it up and put it on the left post as the wiring diagram says, the red/yellow wire was spliced into the red wire that goes to the guages and wasnt even hooked up the solenoid, the only wire that was hooked up right was the black/white wire comming from the start switch and it was hooked up the the left post, i got it all wired correctly(look @ pics) the 2 black/white wires go to the left, and the red/yellow to the right, i think the problem is that the right post is so rusty that its not making contact inside of the solenoid, i used my multimeter and when the start switch is pushed there is no power to the left post of the solenoid and that means its grounding that out which is what its suppose to do right? and yes the red/yellow wire has around 11.72 volts all the timeanother thing if i give the one wire form the start switch(black/white) 12volts dirrectly like touching the wire to the battery and the other wire from the switch being attached to the left post of the solenoid like its suppose to be it will turn over the engine, is this normal?
is there anything else i should test? also if i need a new solenoid does it have to be a seadoo brand because they arnt to cheap
i gave some pics to just make sure its all correct
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x122/87stang5-Oh/seadoo wiring/DSCF1109.jpg
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x122/87stang5-Oh/seadoo wiring/DSCF1110.jpg
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x122/87stang5-Oh/seadoo wiring/DSCF1111.jpg
93 Xp
The solenoid in the picture is NOT a seadoo solenoid. It looks like one off of a car. I'm not real sure you can use it because some auto solenoids have built in diodes, etc. to prevent backfeeding other systems, etc. Besides, your right, it looks like hell. I think you need to get the correct solenoid and then go from there. Also, this is probably not the only wiring issue you are gonna face with this ski. Make sure the wiring diagram you are looking at is the correct one and it is complete. The ones we access here are factory diagrams and they are priceless when it comes to diagnosis and repair.
Good Luck, Dennis
The solenoid in the picture is NOT a seadoo solenoid. It looks like one off of a car. I'm not real sure you can use it because some auto solenoids have built in diodes, etc. to prevent backfeeding other systems, etc. Besides, your right, it looks like hell. I think you need to get the correct solenoid and then go from there. Also, this is probably not the only wiring issue you are gonna face with this ski. Make sure the wiring diagram you are looking at is the correct one and it is complete. The ones we access here are factory diagrams and they are priceless when it comes to diagnosis and repair.
Good Luck, Dennis
Well here is what I would do...just my own opinion. Scrap the solenoid, buy the correct one from Seadoo, this way you know it is the correct one. The little extra expense you spend on correct parts is priceless compared to the aggraviation it will save you. I would correct the wireing from the switches, and to the solenoid. Don't second guess on the diagram of wireing. Either use the copy you have, or spend the $10.95 and join as a premium member as I described before. Retail for a Factory Manual could cost $50.00 or more, if you can find one. Check any wireing that looks kinda funny(different color wires connected or look corroded) with a diagram that is accurate. Solder and make all the connections water tight, with shrink wrap. You can buy an inexpensive soldering gun from radio shack. Ask them about wiring shrink wrap and it's proper use. Don't cut corners by using crimped connectores. Crimped connectors are not for ANY marine use. Lastly, clean out the control box real good and besure it is sealed when you reassemble it. If you start out doing things correctly with the electrical, it will save you lots of problems later, so you can have more fun in the water. Take your time and always keep an eye on the wire diagram. If you get in a bind we'll be here to help.
Karl
Karl
i actually have looked at some MPEMs on ebay and all there starter solenoids looked different, it looked like the two posts were on the bottom of the solenoid instead of the top like mine, if its was a seadoo part it would have a number on it right?, i will pull the one i have now and check for that, i guess the factory seadoo solenoid is $34.44 at a retailer by my house, i have a solder gun and shrink wrap, the only reason why im using crimps and ties is just to make sure everything is right before i button the whole box up
the manual i got is from:http://www.pwctoday.com/showthread.php?t=128441 it pretty detailed and so far the electrical diagram has helped alot thanks for your time Karl,Dennis
the manual i got is from:http://www.pwctoday.com/showthread.php?t=128441 it pretty detailed and so far the electrical diagram has helped alot thanks for your time Karl,Dennis
Sounds like your on the right track...keep us posted.
Karl
Karl
alright, sorry for the delay, after searching i found a new solenoid new for $12,a saftey switch for $30,and a laynyard for $10, the solenoid is smaller and isnt a seadoo part, but i got it hooked up and it cranks over with the lanyard attached and it wont turn over with it disconected, like its suppose to do, now my problem i dont have spark! where should i start looking? all fuses are good
Dess?
I thought maybe the post you replaced may not let you get a start but after looking in the manual, you don't have DESS. I will assume that your solenoid may either be wired wrong or not the proper one for your mpem. With you not having the DESS, there is a way to jumper your electrical power to get voltage to your coil but I don't know if it would be safe to do it without possible damage to your module.
I'll look over the electrical diagram a little more to see what I can come up with.
BTW, we do carry this manual in our library with the electrical drawings. With all the problems you seem to be having, it may be a good idea to become a premium member to help in the trouble shooting. If you have the manual at your side while posting with members, then sharing page numbers and information may make it easier for you to find a solution..........:cheers:
I thought maybe the post you replaced may not let you get a start but after looking in the manual, you don't have DESS. I will assume that your solenoid may either be wired wrong or not the proper one for your mpem. With you not having the DESS, there is a way to jumper your electrical power to get voltage to your coil but I don't know if it would be safe to do it without possible damage to your module.
I'll look over the electrical diagram a little more to see what I can come up with.
BTW, we do carry this manual in our library with the electrical drawings. With all the problems you seem to be having, it may be a good idea to become a premium member to help in the trouble shooting. If you have the manual at your side while posting with members, then sharing page numbers and information may make it easier for you to find a solution..........:cheers:
i was thinking about buying the manual here, but the guy i got my parts from gave me a official seadoo shop manual so i have access to all the wiring diagrams
its a WSM solenoid, the part no. is 004-120 and is on this page http://www.wsmparts.com/pdfs/PWC.electric173-188.pdf on page 177
its a WSM solenoid, the part no. is 004-120 and is on this page http://www.wsmparts.com/pdfs/PWC.electric173-188.pdf on page 177
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Diagram?
If your looking at the wiring diagram at the solenoid, do you have the two BLK/WHITE wires together and attached to the small terminal that's on the same side as the main power wire going to the starter? And on the other side (battery side of solenoid) do you have the yellow/red wire attached alone? On the main power supply post from the battery, you should also have a red wire that comes from your rectifier guarded by a 15 amp fuse. Just to cover all teh bases here, to check for electrical power to your coil, is the 5 amp fuse that powers and protects the mpem good? I thought we might be able to jumper to your ignition coil to try and check for fire but after looking at the drawing, that doesn't look feasible.
I guess if all the above check out o.k. and if you have access to a multi meter or test light, the next step will be to test the wiring to your mpem, then to your ignition coil. I don't think your lanyard or start stop/switch is bad because you said you can turn the engine over when attached and it won't when not attached. All three of those switches cascade to one another, so the problem with fire is going to be around the mpem or solenoid. I'll be at work the entire week-end, bored, so if you have the time, get this done on Saturday and re-post the results so we can determine the next step........:cheers:
If your looking at the wiring diagram at the solenoid, do you have the two BLK/WHITE wires together and attached to the small terminal that's on the same side as the main power wire going to the starter? And on the other side (battery side of solenoid) do you have the yellow/red wire attached alone? On the main power supply post from the battery, you should also have a red wire that comes from your rectifier guarded by a 15 amp fuse. Just to cover all teh bases here, to check for electrical power to your coil, is the 5 amp fuse that powers and protects the mpem good? I thought we might be able to jumper to your ignition coil to try and check for fire but after looking at the drawing, that doesn't look feasible.
I guess if all the above check out o.k. and if you have access to a multi meter or test light, the next step will be to test the wiring to your mpem, then to your ignition coil. I don't think your lanyard or start stop/switch is bad because you said you can turn the engine over when attached and it won't when not attached. All three of those switches cascade to one another, so the problem with fire is going to be around the mpem or solenoid. I'll be at work the entire week-end, bored, so if you have the time, get this done on Saturday and re-post the results so we can determine the next step........:cheers:
ok i just checked over everything, the 2blk/white wires on the left small post, and the red/yellow on the right small post, the 5amp and 15amp fuses are good and have no corrosion on them, where should i test now for power? i had spark for a little bit but then i lost it?? i think there might be a connection issue somewhere, because when i used my multimeter at the spark plug boots there was power there for a second then when i hit the start again it didnt have power to it, so i just need to know where i should test for power
Make sure that all the connections as in post #2 and #8 are correct. I would check continunity on all wires leading from and going to all componets.(use a multi-meter). It sounds like you have a break or a short in a wire someplace. If you have spark and then none and all wires check out ok, than check all componets to be sure they work. Just a process of elimination. It is time consuming , but it's the only way I would attack it. Let us know what you find.
Karl
Karl
Testing!...
O.K., lets try and take it a little deeper....
First, with a test light or multi meter, check for power on the BK/YL wire from your tether switch to your mpem.
Second, check for power on your YL/RD wire at the solenoid.
Third, if the other two have power, check the BK/RD wire from the mpem to the ignition coil.
If you have the electrical diagram as you stated earlier, look at the mpem and notice there are only a couple of power wires. I'm hoping you don't have any problems in your mpem.........let me know what you get!....:cheers:
O.K., lets try and take it a little deeper....
First, with a test light or multi meter, check for power on the BK/YL wire from your tether switch to your mpem.
Second, check for power on your YL/RD wire at the solenoid.
Third, if the other two have power, check the BK/RD wire from the mpem to the ignition coil.
If you have the electrical diagram as you stated earlier, look at the mpem and notice there are only a couple of power wires. I'm hoping you don't have any problems in your mpem.........let me know what you get!....:cheers:
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uh....is there a echo in here...here...here...here...:rofl:
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