717 won't start after being in storage - ideas?

[Cal GTI]

'96 GTI that has apparently been stored for a few years. Replaced carb seals, needle valves, etc. with OSD kit. Changed all oil and fuel lines. Replaced Fuel Shut Off valve.
The engine had a pretty good amount of oil in it for storage I was told and I drained as much as I can without actually turning the ski over on it's side.
Now in trying to start her up - new spark plugs - initially it showed no signs of life, no spit or sputter, etc. and could not smell any fuel at all when turning it over. I pulled spark plugs and turned over the engine with their leads on and there is spark on each plug, so seems igintion system good.

Today I verified fuel line routing and changed the shut off valve. Now I get a fuel smell in turning it over with plugs out (did not seem to prior) but each time I try starting, after I pull spark plugs, there's a milky residue covering the plugs (presume oil / condensation mix?). I am using premixed Seadoo oil and two gallons of gas in the fuel tank.

My battery is feeling the drain as I try over and over to get it to light off and each time the plugs are pulled, they're milky, although now I seem to be getting a sputter, like it's trying to light off.

Although I couldn't find anything wrong with the original fuel shutoff valve, seems to have had a cause in this issue. Can the fuel shutoff vlave not operate properly and seem to be OK? I could select each setting on the valve - OFF - RES - ON - and get airflow out of each respective tube and tubes showed no signs of corrosion.

2 trying to get running questions;
1 - should I try starter spray (ether) to see if I can a light off, or bad idea?
2 - do I just need keep motoring the engine without plugs installed to get oil / water residue out?

Any other suggestions?
Thanks

 

[mikidymac]

Put a little premix down the carbs. Do not use starting fluid.

 

[Cal GTI]

Tried that last time when I was getting nothing, but haven't tried today, since getting sputtering. Will give it a shot. Thanks

 

[Ckrawiec]

I echo what Mikidymac said.....no ether, no carb cleaner....pre-mix in a little squirt bottle right into the carb throats.....little bit at a time.

First and foremost....these skis are NOTHING without a good strong battery installed. The system needs all the voltage the battery can muster to turn that starter and to spin the flywheel.....if she starts to crank, combined with a little pre-mix down the carbs she should fire...won't run long on the little pre-mix but maybe long enough to get the vacuum going to pull fuel into the carbs and away she goes......hopefully.

Does the ski turn/crank freely with plugs out...pushing milky residue out the spark holes.....that's fine until the battery poops out...so keep the battery up to snuff and you'll get her going eventually.....a hibernating ski won't necessarily come back to life easily

 

[IDoSeaDoo]

It sounds like you've got water in the crank case. It's wetting the plugs and maybe shorting or fouling them out. I'd put the plug wires onto their grounding post and crank the engine over a bunch with just a rag over the plug holes. Get all that moisture out of there.

Ditto on the battery. You need it to remain at 11v while cranking to get a healthy start. Never jump it off a running car. Maybe get another car battery and hook jumper cables up to it to help you crank it.

 

[Cal GTI]

Thanks guys. Yes, cranks fine without plugs in and still getting milky. Pulled bleed line off carb from crankcase and getting small squirts of milk out of that line (I believe this is the feed / vacuum for the fuel pump?). Battery down now, need give a charge for a while (2 amp charge). Has this feed for the fuel pump done anything that will cause the carb to need another reseal or will that all purge eventually when the ski runs?
Weak battery will shut down whole process? After trying to get running last night, today was when I finally got some sputtering but batt had been used a while last night, so likely was not up to peak.

 

[Ckrawiec]

It sounds like you've got water in the crank case. It's wetting the plugs and maybe shorting or fouling them out. I'd put the plug wires onto their grounding post and crank the engine over a bunch with just a rag over the plug holes. Get all that moisture out of there.

Ditto on the battery. You need it to remain at 11v while cranking to get a healthy start. Never jump it off a running car. Maybe get another car battery and hook jumper cables up to it to help you crank it.

Another thing I've done is take paper towels and roll them into long tubes and jam them down through the spark plug holes and spinning then around, soaking up as much whatever as possible then carefully pulling them out.....eliminates some of the mess and doesn't waste battery power or put any undue stress on the starter motor. Ski is obviously NOT running while I'm doing that.

 

[Ckrawiec]

Thanks guys. Yes, cranks fine without plugs in and still getting milky. Pulled bleed line off [???? no bleed line - vacuum pulse from engine to fuel pump on MAG carb]carb from crankcase and getting small squirts of milk out of that line (I believe this is the feed / vacuum for the fuel pump? [engine vacuum for fule pump - yes]). Battery down now, need give a charge for a while (2 amp charge) - YEP couple hours then let battery rest a bit to equalize the charge. Has this feed for the fuel pump done anything that will cause the carb to need another reseal or will that all purge eventually when the ski runs? I'd personally open up the fuel pump and clean it out...can be done without removing the carbs
Weak battery will shut down whole process? After trying to get running last night, today was when I finally got some sputtering but batt had been used a while last night, so likely was not up to peak.

Weak battery - frustration galore. EVERYTHING about these skis starts with a good battery.

The battery gives the ski the initial wake up call (push S/S button once, wakes the ski up). The MPEM sees battery voltage (IF low will throw a 12V low message to your infocenter gauge), ski may or may not have enough juice to actually start....takes a lot of juice to turn the flywheel so the starter needs everything the battery can give it to crank the flywheel and start moving those pistons up and down, creating vacuum to pull fuel, etc, etc....

Once the ski actually starts (let go of the S/S button), the starter and battery drop out (they are not needed anymore) and the ski takes over producing its own electric power (stator AC voltage to Rectifier/regulator putting out 13.5 to 14.5 +/- DC voltage for the ski electrical needs and to keep the battery "maintained" above 12.5 VDC for the next start cycle.

I think I have that all pretty much fairly right (the cliff notes version anyway).

 

[IDoSeaDoo]

Putting paper towlels down the combusion chamber will not do anything to soak up the water as it resides in the bottom of the engine; In the crank-case. As you crank the motor, the natural suction of the 2stroke pulls fluids (air, fuel, sloshing water, etc) up through the motor, past the crank and up through the intake ports into the combustion chamber. The pistons then expel it via the exhaust port and spark plug hole. That pulse line is just a direct hole to your crank case on the mag side. That area undergoes pressure pulses, which drive the pump-diaphragm in your carburetor's fuel pump. I'm a bit concerned for your lower end bearings now, but at this point, I'd probably just run it. I would, however, spray some sort of fogging oil or other atomized lubricant to lube those wet bearings. Water washes off the lubricity that should naturally be there. Water doesn't normally get into the motor from sitting. Someone must have got water in there before they put it up...

+1 about all the comments regarding the battery

 

[Cal GTI]

When I got the boat, the carbs had no flame arrestor over them and I think it sat with the seat off, so it appeared the engine sat exposed to the elements. The intake had heavier than 2 stroke oil halfway up the tunnels, so I believe the crank and bearings sat emerged in oil for a long time. I tend to to think, after draining about 2-4 qts. of oil out of the oil lines (when removed from the case) and suctioning the intake as well, the milked fluid is residual oil and condensation. I don’t get a heavy flow out of the bleeder to the carb, just ‘coughs’ of milk. All in all, if it’ll run, has to be the only way I guess I’m going to dry it out. Heavy vibrations if it runs will indicate bearing damage??
Thanks all

 

[JeremyD615]

If you are getting that milky fluid through the pulse line, I would crank the motor as much as you can with the plugs out to empty it as well as you can. I’d then pull the carbs again and check the fuel pump section to see if you have fluid underneath the pump diaphragm. If it’s full of fluid, it’s not going to pull fuel properly... If/once the pump is dry on the pulse side, reinstall the carbs and pour about a teaspoon of premix in each spark plug hole. Then put the plugs back in and try to start it. If compression is good and you have spark, it should fire and run long enough to pull fuel through the lines and maintain itself...

 

[Cal GTI]

That makes sense, was thinking same. If pulse is spitting fluid, how effective is the pump. Pulling, cleaning best option, but I’m dragging this battery through the mud spinning the motor over and over, but I suppose not much else I can do. Thanks

 

[IDoSeaDoo]

Well, general rule of getting a used/ abused seadoo is to rebuild the carbs with genuine mikuni parts (about $30 per carb). Water is heavier than oil, but if the bearings were coated, maybe they'll be ok. They typically give no sign of weakness. They usually fail without warning after running for some time. I HIGHLY suggest investing in boatus towing insurance. I think it's only like $70 per year for fresh water. With me, it's paid for itself 10x over already. No joke. Not trying to be a debbie downer. I've just been there.

 

[Cal GTI]

Rebuilt carbs already but to your point, don’t see how contamination from pulse line to pump will be purged without a teardown even if I get the engine running. More concern around completely purging contamination from the engine overall. Motoring over and over, I don’t see getting all out and won’t be gone until I get the engine running and the heat burns it off. Running on dry land, how long can I run it in effort to do that?
Seriously thinking to cut to the chase and just swap engine for a rebuilt unit.

 

[IDoSeaDoo]

That would be the best option, if you can afford it. You should be able to get enough of the contamination out by just cranking it. Attach a car or lawnmower battery to it and just keep cranking until it clears out. A light mist should be okay. Once it fires, it'll dry out the crank chambers the rest of the way. This engine doesn't have a counterbalance shaft, so that's one thing less to worry about. Water always collects there and must be removed with a plug. Huge pita. Just don't crank it with a battery charger or running vehicle attached. When your starter stops, these charging systems can sent a voltage spike and cook your mpem.

 

[Cal GTI]

So cranking off of a static car battery in my truck, without truck running, is OK?

 

[LikeabossTM]

So cranking off of a static car battery in my truck, without truck running, is OK?

You bet it is.

 

[JeremyD615]

It’s not recommended to jump these skis at all. The correct way to do do it is to remove the battery to charge it... With that said, I have jumped a ski many times with a static battery, and have not had any ill effects.

 

[mikidymac]

To get the majority of the fluid out you need to crank it with your thumb over the plug hole. This will build suction in the bottom end to pull it up and out and it will blow your thumb off to purge it out.

When it's mostly out put the plugs back in and some premix down the carbs. It might pop then pull the plugs because the junk will bridge the gap. Keep doing this and eventually it will fire.
I know Chester recommends heating the plugs with a torch then put them in quick and Chester knows his stuff.

Also you need to pull at least the fuel pump side of the carbs to make sure it isn't full of your "milk" or the pump will never pull fuel.

Good luck, once it is running you need to get it in the water and run it hard, on the trailer will never dry out the bottom end no matter how long you run it.

 

[Cal GTI]

Noticed just now, as you mention, turning over with pressure over teh cylinders (thumb) makes the pump pressure line start spewing again. Is there any way to tell tyeh condition of the crank bearings by hand spinning and motoring? I don't feel, see or hear anything bad from engine when turning over. Is that any kind of indicator of crank and bearing condition or just need get it running and go from there?
Thanks a bunch for your hep and time guys, VERY much appreciated.

 

[mikidymac]

You will not know the condition of the crank without pulling it out.

Let that nipple spew if it is getting the fluid out.

 

[Ckrawiec]

Noticed just now, as you mention, turning over with pressure over teh cylinders (thumb) makes the pump pressure line start spewing again. Is there any way to tell tyeh condition of the crank bearings by hand spinning and motoring? I don't feel, see or hear anything bad from engine when turning over. Is that any kind of indicator of crank and bearing condition or just need get it running and go from there?
Thanks a bunch for your hep and time guys, VERY much appreciated.

Definately a valid concern of the crank bearings and such down below inside, but unless you have XRay vision...you can't see in there.....IF you are that concerned, sucking the oil/water/whatever brew you may think is down in there might ease your mind a touch.....I suppose you could suction out the "juice" using the lowest oil line in the hull and replenishing that with fresh oil.....just a thought,,,,a cheap HF $6 hand pump connected to the lowest (large) oil line connected to the bottom of the engine would do the trick I would think....

 

[mikidymac]

The oil line is not connected to the cavity where you have all this water and oil.
The oil line only connects to the oil bath for the rotary gear so sucking that out will do nothing for the issue you have going on now.

 

[Cal GTI]

Using carb cleaner as my iginter (spraying into carb throat), I was able to get it to light off a few times about 4 - 5 seconds each time. LOTS of smoke, and the heat seems to be burning off the moisture. Pump line to carb no longer spewing. Next up, clean carb pump chamber and hook all back up and try to run again with real fuel feed.

 

[mikidymac]

Don't use carb cleaner or starting fluid, they are bad for 2-strokes.

IF anything a little premix is what you should be using.