I'm looking for some help and advice on a problem that has got me beat. I own a 2007 GTI 4 TEC and until last year it ran flawlessly. I was out on the lake with my kids and stopped for a swim. Put the key back on and the gauges cycled but no double beep and then the gauges went blank. That is currently all I can get it to do. I put the key on, the gauges will cycle quickly and then go blank. The VDO (whatever it is) does cycle but then I don't get the double beeps or anything else. I took it to a local dealer and they replaced the battery and starter relay and said it was GTG. I brought it to the lake and nothing was fixed and it still has the same issue. The dealer refunded my money and gave me back my original battery and relay but weren't willing to further diagnose the problem and said it's up to me. I have gone through all the connections I can find and everything is tight and clean. WHAT AM I MISSING? This has been keeping me up at nights because I'm confident it's a simply fix but it's beyond me. I'm a mechanically inclined guy and have lots of experience working on cars, trucks and ATV's but no experience with SeaDoo's and this one is beating me. Please help if you can so I can get this problem solved. If you need any other info on the problem or symptoms, please do not hesitate to ask. Thanks in advance.
-
This site contains eBay affiliate links for which Sea-Doo Forum may be compensated.
2007 gti 4 tec - help needed
- Thread starter saskoil
- Start date
- Status
I checked the batt myself and am pretty sure it's good. The dealer said they tried a new DESS and that was not the issue. Unfortunately no, after the gauges go blank it will not start or anything. I also only have 1 DESS key so I can't try another. I have checked all fuses and they all look good and none are popped. There is a main square relay in the one smaller fuse box that I have not tried. I'm almost 100% sure it has to be a sensor or a relay somewhere or the ECM has crapped out. Like I said the gauges will cycle then I can see and hear the VDO cycle (which is attached to the throttle body) and then it just goes dead. I'm thinking there is something in the system check that is not passing. Does anyone know what order the system does it's initial check in? I know it has to be something after the VDO cycles. Thanks again for the suggestions guys. I was just in the garage again staring at it and scratching my head!!!
Your description sounds like a battery or connection issue. Does it crank if you jump the solenoid?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
mkov608
Active Member
Saskoil, I'm one of those mechanical guys like you. The Sea-Doo service manual is very well written, and has an excellent theory of operation and diagnostic procedures sections for this exact problem. My ski came with the manual, so my first suggestion is for you to find the manual for your ski. I'm traveling, so I'm, working without a net (the manual).
What you know:
1. It's not a battery power issue ... it will crank
2. Dealer says it's not the DESS post (don't have a lot of confidence in them since they gave up so quickly).
3. It's not a fuse issue (you said they all checked good).
4. You initially get power but then lose it.
Specifically, the ECU (the brain) stores your key information; that comes from the electrical contacts in the lanyard. The MPEM (power distribution) gets power from the DESS post after you put on the lanyard; that switch is magnetic. That is why the dealer looked to that component first; they probably suspected a bad magnetic switch. Once you remove the lanyard from the DESS post, the magnetic switch opens an the MPEM loses power from the battery after approximately 30 seconds.
So, there are two things going on when you put your lanyard on the DESS post ... key verification and MPEM power up. At least initially, the magnetic part of the DESS post is working as evidenced by the ski initially powering up, so we need to figure out if you are losing power at the MPEM or if you are only losing your information center display. Someone who can reference the manual will step in here shortly.
What you know:
1. It's not a battery power issue ... it will crank
2. Dealer says it's not the DESS post (don't have a lot of confidence in them since they gave up so quickly).
3. It's not a fuse issue (you said they all checked good).
4. You initially get power but then lose it.
Specifically, the ECU (the brain) stores your key information; that comes from the electrical contacts in the lanyard. The MPEM (power distribution) gets power from the DESS post after you put on the lanyard; that switch is magnetic. That is why the dealer looked to that component first; they probably suspected a bad magnetic switch. Once you remove the lanyard from the DESS post, the magnetic switch opens an the MPEM loses power from the battery after approximately 30 seconds.
So, there are two things going on when you put your lanyard on the DESS post ... key verification and MPEM power up. At least initially, the magnetic part of the DESS post is working as evidenced by the ski initially powering up, so we need to figure out if you are losing power at the MPEM or if you are only losing your information center display. Someone who can reference the manual will step in here shortly.
Last edited by a moderator:
The fact that it cranks when you jump the solenoid does tell you that, you have a good battrery, good cables and connections, and a good starter.
So,,, you need to check out the small wire stuff. All the plugs in and out of the MPEM. Look for corrosion. There is a specific test for the DESS, if you want it I am sure I can find it.
I also question the dealer you used. Seems strange to TRY a few things and give back your money,....
So,,, you need to check out the small wire stuff. All the plugs in and out of the MPEM. Look for corrosion. There is a specific test for the DESS, if you want it I am sure I can find it.
I also question the dealer you used. Seems strange to TRY a few things and give back your money,....
Thanks for the info guys and for taking the time to reply. Especially if one of you is on the road. I will try to locate the MPEM tonight and will trouble shoot that. I'll let you know if I have any luck. As for the dealer they said they'd be willing to try more things but said the costs would add up in a hurry at $100 an hour and I'd be better off to try to fix it myself. They blamed corrosion on the wiring and asked if it ever got wet which I almost laughed at because it's a PWC. Of course it might have gotten wet. And as far as I've seen there is little to no corrosion on the wiring I've found thus far.
Well after another couple hours with lots of swearing and no luck I decided to try and attach some pics. I still have NOT found the MPEM. Attached are pics of the fuse box in the front which is by the starter relay. The battery, The ECM and a picture of the engine where you can see the ECM. I downloaded an owners manual and it lists the MPEM and shows a pic of it but I DO NOT have anything on the machine that looks the same. I found 5 main grounds from the engine block that go into the harness. I took them all off and cleaned them and still nothing. As mentioned the unit will crank if I jump it at the starter relay. Also if I leave the lanyard on the DESS the gauges will continue to cycle roughly every 15 seconds but then do not give the double beep and simply go blank. I'm again out of ideas and again appreciate any help or advice you guys can offer. Thanks
ski-d00
Well-Known Member
There is no MPEM on your ski. The early 4tecs had what they called an MPEM but really isn't, it was just a fuse box and power distribution center. The brain is the ECU and controls everything like the MPEM does on the 2 strokes.
So, it sounds like your ECU is getting the power cut to it after a few seconds. I have seen this a few times before. That relay you mentioned earlier is relay that supplies power to the ECU. You should check that relay so that it supplies 12v to the ECU.
Unlikely the ECU is bad. You should get a wiring diagram to help diagnose.
You also have the wrong size battery in there, you should have the 30amp and not the 16amp size.
So, it sounds like your ECU is getting the power cut to it after a few seconds. I have seen this a few times before. That relay you mentioned earlier is relay that supplies power to the ECU. You should check that relay so that it supplies 12v to the ECU.
Unlikely the ECU is bad. You should get a wiring diagram to help diagnose.
You also have the wrong size battery in there, you should have the 30amp and not the 16amp size.
Last edited by a moderator:
A couple of things:
1. Not to be nitpicky, but the MPEM's on the 2002-2006 4TECS were quite a bit more than just a fuse box. They did the translation to CAN cluster information as well as check for several other components (like compass and VTS). They did away with the MPEM in 2007, so yours does not have an MPEM.
2. Your ski has what is called a 4 wire DESS post. There are two mag reed switches in it. One activates the power relay, the other tells the ECU to read the key. I suspect that the one reed switch is working (the one with the Black/Purple wire), but not the other one. (this is the one with the Black/Yellow wire) This is because the ski is powering up, but the ECU is not seeing the key.
Suggest you test the DESS post first. Disconnect the 6 pin gray Deutsche connector underneath the steering harness, and measure continuity between the Black and the Black/Yellow wires on the side of connector that leads up to the handlebar assembly. You should have no continuity with key off the DESS post, and it should drop to near zero ohms with key on post.
1. Not to be nitpicky, but the MPEM's on the 2002-2006 4TECS were quite a bit more than just a fuse box. They did the translation to CAN cluster information as well as check for several other components (like compass and VTS). They did away with the MPEM in 2007, so yours does not have an MPEM.
2. Your ski has what is called a 4 wire DESS post. There are two mag reed switches in it. One activates the power relay, the other tells the ECU to read the key. I suspect that the one reed switch is working (the one with the Black/Purple wire), but not the other one. (this is the one with the Black/Yellow wire) This is because the ski is powering up, but the ECU is not seeing the key.
Suggest you test the DESS post first. Disconnect the 6 pin gray Deutsche connector underneath the steering harness, and measure continuity between the Black and the Black/Yellow wires on the side of connector that leads up to the handlebar assembly. You should have no continuity with key off the DESS post, and it should drop to near zero ohms with key on post.
Eclipse1701d
New Member
I could be completely wrong, but could it be the inverter? I had problems with my 07 GTI. It would read 12 Volt High. I changed the inverter, and it was good to go...
By "inverter" I assume you are referring to the rectifier/regulator, yes?
An inverter takes DC volts and inverts it to A/C volts. A rectifier/ regulator takes DC volts and regulates the output voltage still in DC voltage.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks again for the replies. I'm stuck out at work for a week now but I'll try the relay first when I get home and then test the DESS post. I do have a multimeter but am a bit embarassed to say that I am not 100% sure on how to use it. When checking ohm's there are 5 different settings. Can anyone give me a quick rundown on which setting I need it on to correctly check the continuity of the post? Cheers
Eclipse1701d
New Member
Yes. I apologize. My Prius terminology leaked into my Sea Doo experience... I meant to say rectifier. I thought if it were malfunctioning, it could have to do with the problem the poster was having.
Last edited by a moderator:
mkov608
Active Member
Actually, the rectifier changes the AC output of the stator to DC via a full wave rectifier circuit. The regulator portion steps it down to approximately 14 volts, +/-.
Set it to the lowest ohm setting. With the leads open, should show infinity. When you put the two leads together, should show somewhere near zero ohms, maybe a few ohms depending on your meter and leads. This is what you should see with both reed switches of the DESS post. Infinity with key off, near zero with key on post.
And the rectifier/regulator has nothing to do with his problem.
Thanks again for your help. I'll let you know how I make out.
Finally made it home and got a chance to get into things again. I first tested the DESS post and that all checked out. So I replaced the $11 relay in the fuse box and BOOM, back in business. Everything comes on as it should with the DESS now and I get the double beep that I've been missing. It does appear that I'm not totally out of the woods though. Now when I hit the start/stop button the starter will engage once and that is it. It won't crank over enough to fire. I did put a new 30 amp battery in while I was in there and that didn't help. I'm thinking it might be the starter relay now (which the dealer originally told me was bad) but I'm not 100% sure. Thanks again for any help or advice. Cheers
ski-d00
Well-Known Member
Good to here that problem is solved. I though that might be it. The next problem does sound like it is just your starter relay (solenoid) going out. If you press the start button and only get a click, usually that is the solenoid especially if you have a brown one around the 2007 year. Normally when they start to fail, if you press it enough times, sometimes up to 10 times, it will finally crank and start the engine. Get a black one and I'll bet you're good to go.
Ok,, so if you jump the solenoid it does still crank yes?
If so, test the trigger wire, normally has some yellow on it, for 12 volts when you press the START button and have the lanyard attached. If you get 12 volts, then test the OUTPUT side of the solenoid while pressing the START button. If it is zero, replace it.
If so, test the trigger wire, normally has some yellow on it, for 12 volts when you press the START button and have the lanyard attached. If you get 12 volts, then test the OUTPUT side of the solenoid while pressing the START button. If it is zero, replace it.
- Status
