2004 Seadoo sportster le di Battery and Charging

[beardo76]

Hello Fellow boaters, i have a question around the battery and charging system on the 951 di engine.
Over the weekend, I was heading out, started my boat ( turned over and started no problem) but the mpem beeped at me and went into limp mode. I was just going fishing so i idled out to my spot. Stayed out for a few hours withmy stereo on and killed the battery. I always carry a booster battery pack. Hooked it up started rigth away, noticed no beeping from the mpem. So i unplugged the booster pack, engine stayed runing. As i was idling home, the engine died and my main battery was completly dead. Once i hooked up the battery pack again i left it hooked up, engine ran fine, no beeps etc.

Question 1 - Does that stator not produce enough power to charge the battery and remain running?
Question 2 - could a battery have enough power to start the boat but still be bad (bad enough to cause an error code to trip the mpem)

Thanks all
This is my first year with the boat, so lots of questions!!

 

[beardo76]

Oh and I plan on taking out the battery tonight to get it charged and tested, how can i test my stator to ensure its producing power.
Thanks

 

[Dr Honda]

First...


NEVER run the engine in limp mode, unless it's an emergency !!!! (as in, getting back the the trailer) The Di engines in limp mode shut off one cyl. So... it will BADLY scuff the cyl.


As far as your questions:

1) Yes... the charging system will charge the battery, but it's marginal on that boat. Also... the power output isn't very good below 4000 RPM. So... with being in limp mode, and idling... you were draining the battery.

2) Yes it can. If there is a short in a cell... and you just took it off the charger... there could be enough to start, but no real capacity. So... when you were sitting, and listening to the radio... it could have dropped below the operating voltage.

3) To check it... Put a meter on the battery, and start the engine. Once you bring it up to 4000~5000 RPM... you should see 13.5 to 14 volts. If it's low (in the 12v range) something is wrong. FYI... the Di voltage regulator was marginal, and is known to burn up. The new one is a little better.

 

[beardo76]

Thanks Tony! Much appreciated.
Maybe I wasnt in limp mode, I could still rev the engine up but not plane.
I have only charged the battery at the beginning of the year and havent since.
I will perform the voltage test this evening, get the battery stress tested.
How can i tell if the voltage regulator is faulty?

If i need to replace the battery, can i put in a Class 27 AGM deep cycle battery and not harm he charging system?

 

[Dr Honda]

How can i tell if the voltage regulator is faulty?

Reed #3 above. If the voltage is low. Use a meter to check the stator windings. (they will probably be OK) if they check... the regulator is bad.

If i need to replace the battery, can i put in a Class 27 AGM deep cycle battery and not harm he charging system?

Deep cycle batteries are not meant for starting duties. They generally don't have the amp output available, and they can be damaged in trying. You want a marine starting battery. There are some dual use type batteries, and they are OK.


As far as size... I'm 99% sure your boat used a group 24 battery. If it has a 27 in it now... then a previous owner changed the size of the battery box.


Finally... if you have a tendency of going out to a lake, and sitting with the radio on... you may want to consider a second battery. My boat uses a 27... but I still added a second one for safety. (I needed it this past weekend)

 

[beardo76]

Thanks Tony, I appreciate you sharing your knowldge. I will check tonight and I will definetly add a second battery for my stereo and fish finder. So deep cycle for Accessory power and starting battery for starting. Also, do not hook up the deep cycle to the charging system correct? Charging both batteries via the stator is not good correct?
Thanks again
Paul B

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Thanks Tony, I appreciate you sharing your knowldge. I will check tonight and I will definetly add a second battery for my stereo and fish finder. So deep cycle for Accessory power and starting battery for starting. Also, do not hook up the deep cycle to the charging system correct? Charging both batteries via the stator is not good correct?
Thanks again
Paul B

I wouldn't try to charge two batteries simultaneously with a 951DI, the charging system doesn't really have any overcapacity due to the power requirements of the fuel injection system.

So I think it's best to charge any battery separately (keep them isolated).

However, if the deep cycle battery is large enough, it CAN be used as an emergency starting battery and if you install a battery switch designed for two batteries you can swap between batteries at a flip of the switch, or have them both connected to the stator circuit simultaneously (if for some reason you wanted both batteries connected simultaneously, not that it would provide any benefit other than perhaps adding to the total starting capacity).

Shore power charging: I would flip the battery switch into the off position to disconnect(isolate) the battery from the MPEM if I wanted to charge said battery using a shore powered charger. MPEM's cannot tolerate excessive voltage, many chargers produce too much.

So if I'm charging the battery in my boat, I flip the battery switch to off position before connecting the charger.

 

[Lightningtruck]

All good advice given.....there is nothing I can add.

However, if you find out that you end up needing a stator, shoot me a PM. I have a good stator from a DI boat that I'd be willing to part with. I did a bunch of swapping of parts while chasing an issue and it turned out to not be the stator.

Thanks,
Kevin

 

[beardo76]

Hello Sportster 2001 951c stock, did you find a dual battery switch that fit the stock cut out?

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Hello Sportster 2001 951c stock, did you find a dual battery switch that fit the stock cut out?

Hi Beardo!

I haven't looked for one yet, my boat is carbed though, FYI. No electrical changes made to my boat except for a power-port/cig lighter socket just under the helm for a 100W hand-held spotlight. I'm also going to use this for the battery tender connector.

Not sure if those Guest brand battery switches all use the same mounting pattern but thought they might? I think ours looks like Guest?

Or maybe Perko, but looks like Guest model#2101 is dual style to me, like this one:

http://www.iboats.com/BATTERY-SWITCH-w-o-AFD-Guest/dm/view_id.930809?cm_mmc=Google_Main-_-Mall+Product+Listings%3AGoogle-_-+%3AMall+Product+Listings%3AGoogle-_-Guest&kw={keyword}&gclid=CKDqi7nA-LgCFZSi4AodFh8A9w

 

[beardo76]

Thanks! i will have to take a look tonight when i get to my boat to get the name and dimentions and snap a pic
your link does link like it will fit.

Thanks again!
Paul B

 

[beardo76]

OK, so I put a meter on the battery, started it and let it rev up to round 4000 rpm and the meter stayed in the 12v range.
So by reading above, something is wrong. How can I test the voltage reg over the stator? Also, is there a fuse I should be checking?
Thanks all
Paul B

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

OK, so I put a meter on the battery, started it and let it rev up to round 4000 rpm and the meter stayed in the 12v range.
So by reading above, something is wrong. How can I test the voltage reg over the stator? Also, is there a fuse I should be checking?
Thanks all
Paul B

Yes, you need to check the 25A REG fuse in the MPEM under a rectangular cover, the charging current comes from the regulator/rectifier through this fuse to the battery. There also are two other fuses the current must go through before reaching the battery, but these must be good since your MPEM has power and the boat can start, these are the 25A BAT fuse also in the MPEM, and a 30A fuse in the e-box mounted above the jet pump drive shaft tunnel, this waterproof box also contains the ignition coils and starter solenoid.

There are three yellow wires coming from the stator to the rectifier/regulator, unplug this connector from the rectifier/regulator and measure resistance between any two of the yellow wires, the resistance should be greater than 0.1 Ohm and less than 1 Ohm. check all three wires, from one to another, this is a three phase winding in delta configuration. Also, measure from any one of the yellow wires to ground, there should be an open circuit. Stator is good if these measurements check okay. If the REG or BAT fuse in the MPEM blows and the stator measurements are good, then the rectifier/regulator is suspect.

As additional information, the charging circuit is rated to provide a total of 270 watts.

 

[Dr Honda]

I wouldn't try to charge two batteries simultaneously with a 951DI, the charging system doesn't really have any overcapacity due to the power requirements of the fuel injection system.

Yep... That system is marginal. So, regardless... the batteries need to be isolated. And.......

However, if the deep cycle battery is large enough, it CAN be used as an emergency starting battery and if you install a battery switch designed for two batteries you can swap between batteries at a flip of the switch,

That's the best way to do it. Buy a 2 battery switch, then you can flip between them. The Guest brand switches will "Make" the contact before "Breaking" the old. So... the system won't get an open load, and burn up. But... that will allow you to start on either battery if needed (or both)... and if you are out on a long ride... you can safely switch to the the second battery to charge it.

The nice thing about the twin engine boats, is you can split the charging duties. (each engine charges a battery)

 

[beardo76]

Thanks!! I will perform these tests tonight.
Thanks again for all the support!

 

[beardo76]

Yep... That system is marginal. So, regardless... the batteries need to be isolated. And.......




That's the best way to do it. Buy a 2 battery switch, then you can flip between them. The Guest brand switches will "Make" the contact before "Breaking" the old. So... the system won't get an open load, and burn up. But... that will allow you to start on either battery if needed (or both)... and if you are out on a long ride... you can safely switch to the the second battery to charge it.

The nice thing about the twin engine boats, is you can split the charging duties. (each engine charges a battery)

Thanks Tony, ill be sure to do this set up.

 

[beardo76]

Hey Guys, i just wanted to run by this set up with you for feedback.
I have added a new battery, i have the dual battery switch on the way. Now I have a fish finder and an audio system i will be running off battery B, Battery A is strictly for starting and running the Standard boat electronics.
Now the receiver has 2 power in's. One powers the unit (red wire) the yellow wire is a remote on ( turns on the unit when charged.
Can I run the following set up? (Pic attached)


Basically I want to run the remote on power (Yellow) from Battery A ( so it turns off when i turn the battery switch off) and run the Red power wire to the Accesories/stereo from Battery B. I will bridge the ground on the 2 batteries but not the positives ( unless the dual battery switch is set to 1&2)
My goal is to be able to switch the battery switch from (1 to 2) in case i need to start/run my boat from either battery. I want to run the accesories from Battery B with no chance of it drawing from battery A (of cource unless the Battery switch is on 1 & 2)

Thanks!
Paul B

 

[Dr Honda]

Yep... sort of.



1) Tie all the grounds together.

2) Hook battery one to the switch as shown.

3) Tie battery 2 to the second terminal on the switch. (this is the part you left out)

4) hook your "Memory" line to battery 2.





The electronics hooked to battery 2 will always be a draw on it... but once you are up and running (from battery 1) you can then switch to battery 2, using the switch... and the system will charge it.

 

[beardo76]

What should I be reading from the 3 yellow wires when I test them individually when I test to ground?

 

[beardo76]

Ok found a blown fuse right by the battery on the battery switch box
Also measured 14.x volts coming out the voltage reg so stator and voltage reg must be fine

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

What should I be reading from the 3 yellow wires when I test them individually when I test to ground?

There should be no continuity to ground on any of the three yellow stator wires, so near infinity and certainly greater than 1mega ohms. You should see no meter deflection.

 

[beardo76]

Hey guys, so my issue remains. When i test the black red coming out of the voltage reg get varied results.
7 vdc. 10 vdc, etc. Engine running around 4000 rmp
This would cause the mpem to trip low voltage error code correct?

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Hey guys, so my issue remains. When i test the black red coming out of the voltage reg get varied results.
7 vdc. 10 vdc, etc. Engine running around 4000 rmp
This would cause the mpem to trip low voltage error code correct?

Yes, something like low voltage can cause the MPEM to trip low voltage code and go into limp mode or even cut off the engine and go into sleep mode.

What if engine is off, what voltage do you measure at regulator between the red wire of the regulator and engine ground? It sounds like you've got a lose or possibly wire somewhere between your rectifier and the battery positive terminal.

The other possibility for intermittent low voltage could be the surge protector diode inside your MPEM is going bad, and that can be fixed fairly easily, but it's more likely you have a lose connection, possibly at the main power terminal of the MPEM, inside of the AMPhenol connector.

So, with engine off, connect your voltmeter to the regulator red wire and engine ground while "wiggling" the wire harness near the MPEM, and watch for voltage changes. It's best to have an analog scale type voltmeter for this kind of test but your digital meter should work if you're patient.

Dig around and see what you can find, the voltage at the red terminal of the regulator should be a constant 12volts with the engine off, this wire runs through the MPEM and eventually to the battery but if the voltage at this wire drops out, your MPEM will probably notice because it also runs on this same power source.

I only point out the red wire on the regulator b/c it's the last device connected on this power source and it's easy to get to, not b/c I think there may be something wrong with the regulator or stator. I bet there's a lose connector on the MPEM harness.

 

[Lightningtruck]

Yes, something like low voltage can cause the MPEM to trip low voltage code and go into limp mode or even cut off the engine and go into sleep mode.

What if engine is off, what voltage do you measure at regulator between the red wire of the regulator and engine ground? It sounds like you've got a lose or possibly wire somewhere between your rectifier and the battery positive terminal.

The other possibility for intermittent low voltage could be the surge protector diode inside your MPEM is going bad, and that can be fixed fairly easily, but it's more likely you have a lose connection, possibly at the main power terminal of the MPEM, inside of the AMPhenol connector.

So, with engine off, connect your voltmeter to the regulator red wire and engine ground while "wiggling" the wire harness near the MPEM, and watch for voltage changes. It's best to have an analog scale type voltmeter for this kind of test but your digital meter should work if you're patient.

Dig around and see what you can find, the voltage at the red terminal of the regulator should be a constant 12volts with the engine off, this wire runs through the MPEM and eventually to the battery but if the voltage at this wire drops out, your MPEM will probably notice because it also runs on this same power source.

I only point out the red wire on the regulator b/c it's the last device connected on this power source and it's easy to get to, not b/c I think there may be something wrong with the regulator or stator. I bet there's a lose connector on the MPEM harness.

^^^
THIS is precisely what I think was wrong with my 2004 Sportster LE DI machine before I sold it. I had a long, drawn out battle with tripping the low voltage code, but never could find the problem. I concluded it was something in the harness, as it could come and go intermittently. I sold it with full disclosure.

 

[beardo76]

Replaced voltage regulator, issue is gone!!!