2002 Challenger 210hp piston ring gap question

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Ken Inman

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I bought this boat with a trashed piston (center port side). While working on that I decided to pull all of the pistons and re-ring. After honing I found the old rings are at .75mm gap. The new standard rings I ordered guage at .65mm but it is tight and I cannot be sure I have the ring perfectly "squared' in the cylinder. (at least as square as you can make a circle in a circle). The manual says that the max gap should be .64mm. This boat will run maybe one day a week during the summer here in Indiana and almost never at WOT, it is more to pull skiers and tubes. Has anyone had experience with this and do you think the .65 gap will be alright and last awhile before it will need a complete rebuild?
 
Well... it's right on the edge of being too big... but it should be OK. Assuming the cyl is still round.

FYI... the reason you lost that piston, is because the rings were warn, and the pistons over temp'ed. (too much blow-by)
 
Thanks Dr Honda, I was leaning toward using them and just tearing down again when any cylinder's compression falls too low. I got this boat for a song because of the damaged piston. I have the cylinder cleaned up nicely but will have to use an oversize in it as the gap there is over 1mm.
 
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I did get this engine back together and have 120psi + on five of the cylinders. However after honing out the score on the damaged cylinder, installing a new piston and over sized rings I can't get above 70psi so I imagine it is out of round. Since the piston moves freely and smoothly and there is so little season left here in Indiana I have decided to run it anyway just going heavy on the oil. There is port damage that I had to file down so I don't think boring is a good option. I know Dr Honda re-sleeved a 240efi and I believe that engine and mine use the same block I hope he can shed a little light on what sleeve to use. From what I can find I believe it is an LA181, does anyone know if this is correct?
 
Heavy oil won't save that cyl. The combustion gasses will get past the rings... and it will melt the piston. You would be better off pulling the piston and rod, and running it on 5 cyl's. (don't laugh... I've done it before, to get though a weekend)

How did you hone it? The ball hones they sell in the auto parts stores SUCK. They are only for de-glazing a good cyl. If you have heavy wear, you need a machinist's hone, to pull it straight again.

They look like this.

http://www.lislecorp.com/divisions/products/?product=43&division=1&category=6
 
An interesting idea Dr Honda. If I run it with the piston will the exhaust gasses damage my crank or reeds or do I need to block that somehow? Also I was using a cheap spring loaded hone. A cylinder hone like in the link above might work but I have been leaning more towards just re-sleeving it if I can figure out which sleeve to order so the shop will have something to work with.
 
I did order the hone and a set of .030 oversize rings. It is worth at least one more try to save this cylinder.
 
you can't run oversized rings... without an over sized piston. If you try to fit in a big ring to a smaller bore... then you won't be "Round" anymore, and it won't seal. (assuming you grind the end gap to the proper size) Besides... there's no way you are going to pull 0.030" out with a hone. It takes time to take 0.003" out. Not to mention.


Before you do more damage than good... measure your cyl, and figure out where you are with it.
 
Dr. Honda, I appreciate the advise, I have searched around and find an exact match for .015 oversized piston but not a .030 oversized. Where would I locate the correct part number?
 
I should give an update. I did get the hone but I had already messed up the top end of the cylinder. I was however able to get a .45mm gap for the rest of it using a .030" oversize piston and rings. I was worried because I could not get the compression over 70psi on the bench while the other were about 120psi. I decided to go ahead and run it anyway. I ran about 2hrs yesterday on lake Monroe. Big mistake because everybody else was running too and the lake was rough as all get out. I chose Monroe because there are a lot of places you can ramp out if necessary. I should have stuck with the White river, it's a lot smoother and we typically have it all to ourselves except for a few fishermen.

Per the manual I ran 50:1 mix in the tank + the injector for break in. Talk about a mosquito fogger. It did run pretty well but would not idle long and smoked like a booger. It had good top end, it's speedometer registered slightly over 50 but my gps said our best was 46mph. That was with the swim step down in the back, doh! Might have pulled another 1 or 2 mph with that put up. It was doggy coming out of the hole though, my Sea Rayder F16 or my sister's Suger Sand would have beaten it by a mile off the line with their Sport Jet 175hp's. I think it is not just the weight but it seemed to be loading up with oil as I left a smoke screen on takeoff. It pulled me up twice on a slalom ski and it did take a bit longer than I would like to get on top of the water. The F16 or Tango would jerk the rope out right of my hands at a full throttle take off. All in all we ran our nearly half of it's 40 gallon tank of fuel though.

This evening when I got home from work I pulled all of the plugs, most were pretty oily, wonder they were not completely fouled. I checked compression on all cylinders. 5 were at or above 120psi and my problem cylinder had come up to 90psi. Using the endoscope I could detect no damage to the piston or cylinder but some carbon buildup. It may just be that it stood out more because that piston is shiny new aluminum. I plan to run it a couple more hours next weekend and if all is okay then install the injector bypass stuff I ordered using the parts list in the sticky post here. I will monitor compression after every run and I don't plan to do a full tear down and re-sleeve until I can see imminent failure since most of our boating is spent on the beach or anchored.
 
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